Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVII (continued)

[Notsince67]

They're a year apart bud. Stop making it sound like one broke into the league at 25 lol

 

[PromisedLand]

Jury is out on Nylander. Reset may help him if he come in with the right mindset. Marner is a fantastic talent but if he refuses to come down to earth and accept that the Leafs cannot afford him at Matthews money, what do you do ??? I have said it before, one of the 3 amigos needs to go.

If I had to trade one of the 3 Nylander is the one I'd choose to let go. But after the season he had last year his value is pretty low; his stats without Matthews are not that great; so it will be a hard sell.

Dubas is the one to be blamed for this mess he screwed up; the moment he signed JT -> he should have at least gotten both marner and nylander done. Did he expect marner/matthews production to slow once JT was on the roster? serious lack of foresight and huge rookie mistake.

To me the answer is simple really. If the offersheet is signed by Mitch that is less than 4 first rounders Leafs have to match it and if a cap crunch is ruining team composition then make a good hockey trade using Nylander/Marner; if the offersheet is in the 4 first round realm then you let Marner walk take those 4 first round picks and flip them to fill the holes (up front and on the back end).

Scenario: A
offersheet less than 4 first round picks-> Match it; and then evaluate if the team composition is screwed if yes then trade one of the big fish

Scenario: B
offersheet is in the 4 first round realm: Let Marner walk take the picks and flip them to get a solid top4D and a solid top6 forward.


Scenario A; Roster as many have posted


Scenario B Roster:

Hyman-Tavares-Top6F (1st rounder)
Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Moore-Kerfoot-Kapanen
xxx-Spezza-xxx
xxx

Muzzin Barrie
Rielly Top4D (1st rounder)
Dermott Ceci
Borgman

Ceci flipped at the TDL to get another solid D (1st roudner)

Following season let the pending UFA D-man walk who we got by flipping Ceci+1st; use Ceci's money to extend Barrie and Muzzin

Following season roster
Same Top9
4th line

Defense:
Muzzin Barrie
Rielly Top4D
Dermott Liljegren
xxx

OR

Let Muzzin walk

Rielly Barrie
Dermott Top4D
Sandin Liljegren
xxx

same forward group

 

[PromisedLand]

Sad that leaf fans don't appreciate what we have .
The massive improvement in this kid from December of 2017.
The stronger that this kid gets, the better he will be.
It's funny how our own fans want to knock him down.
Iam sure coaches on other teams have more respect for what this player does , than some people on this board.,

Cassidy has a man crush on Marner. every time Bruins play the Leafs all he talks about is Marner and how they have to plan against Marner

 

[Notsince67]

Cassidy has a man crush on Marner. every time Bruins play the Leafs all he talks about is Marner and how they have to plan against Marner

Jon Cooper is also a Marner fan boy
Jon Cooper: Mitch Marner is one of smartest players NHL's ever seen - Sportsnet.ca

 

[PromisedLand]

Jon Cooper is also a Marner fan boy
Jon Cooper: Mitch Marner is one of smartest players NHL's ever seen - Sportsnet.ca

So a coach that won the Presidents Trophy and a coach that went to the SCF last season think Marner is an elite talent but HF posters think Marner is just another winger and Nylander is just as good.

just freakin' LOL

 

[dimi78]

Not a chance! The table was set with Eichel getting 10M...Buffalo desperate to stay relevant. Drai getting paid was another. The new crop of kids who have won nothing yet will all be paid as well ,so this is the way the salary cap era has evolved. I suspect there may be changes coming to the collective bargaining agreement.

There wont be any changes to the cap because this is exactly how it should be paying your players based on how they will produce moving forward during the duration of the contract not what they did in the past. The cap issues that the league has is do to the fact that teams have been doing business backwards looking for bargain contracts on there youth to offset the stupidity of overpaying UFA vets to long term deals...

This notion that a young player as a RFA somehow warrants to be payed less is severely skewed. Marner is a superstar that has 10 years of superstardom in him.

If your not paying this guy then your doing things backwards like the rest of the dolts managing teams in the league.

UFA with players looking to hit there late 20's in age lets say 28-29 and beyond is where you look for bargains on the cap.

 

[Notsince67]

So a coach that won the Presidents Trophy and a coach that went to the SCF last season think Marner is an elite talent but HF posters think Marner is just another winger and Nylander is just as good.

just freakin' LOL

Yeah...he might be one of the smartest players the league has ever seen according to Cooper but he isn't close to being one of the most important on the team
Salary Cap: - Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)

 

[biotk]

With all of these rival team coaches going gaga over Marner, you would think that at least one of them would be able to convince their GM to OS Marner.

 

[ShaneFalco]

With all of these rival team coaches going gaga over Marner, you would think that at least one of them would be able to convince their GM to OS Marner.

He'd probably have one if he was willing to go for max term
But this is just another one of his demands....
Want to be the third signed, no bargaining during season, make my own comparables, want a short term deal, and I'll visit other teams

 

[MyBudJT]

With all of these rival team coaches going gaga over Marner, you would think that at least one of them would be able to convince their GM to OS Marner.

With what cap space?

 

[PromisedLand]

Yeah...he might be one of the smartest players the league has ever seen according to Cooper but he isn't close to being one of the most important on the team
Salary Cap: - Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)

LOL what a rudiculous post that was.

people here keep using numbers but do not use context at all.

Marner's production remained the same whether Matthews/Nylnader played or did not play

Matthews/Nylander have always had the luxury of playing with Marner on the roster so have had easier time when it comes to production; on top of that Marner plays against oppositions' top lines and also PKs

It is just hilarious that folks here do not use context and just throw numbers right left and center without any context

 

[ShaneFalco]

Dubas is the one to be blamed for this mess he screwed up; the moment he signed JT -> he should have at least gotten both marner and nylander done

Once again, Marner wanted to be the last to sign
And signing JT is somehow considered a messy?

 

[PromisedLand]

Once again, Marner wanted to be the last to sign
And signing JT is somehow considered a messy?

Lets to an exercise. Suppose you were Dubas and you signed Tavares; do you expect Marner and Matthews' production to increase, decrease or stay the same with the upcoming season?

If you expect the production to increase do you be pro-active and get the contract done ASAP or not?

If you expect the production to decrease you do not sign them and wait till the season ends

If you expect production to stay the same then you could do the contracts sooner or wait till the end because the outcome has no impact on the cap space

So do you think Dubas had a good foresight or lack of foresight and make a huge rookie mistake?

 

[PromisedLand]

With all of these rival team coaches going gaga over Marner, you would think that at least one of them would be able to convince their GM to OS Marner.

OS needs to be signed by the player for it to be "official" teams can offersheet the hell out of marner if he is not willing to sign and wants to be a leaf there ain't nothing any gm in the world can do about it

 

[biotk]

With what cap space?

They would dump cap space to sign the amazing Marner.

 

[biotk]

OS needs to be signed by the player for it to be "official" teams can offersheet the hell out of marner if he is not willing to sign and wants to be a leaf there ain't nothing any gm in the world can do about it

Marner goes on a tour to get offersheets, but won't sign an offersheet. Adds up.

 

[Pookie]

Marner goes on a tour to get offersheets, but won't sign an offersheet. Adds up.

Can you name a better way to determine what the market is thinking in terms of a contract ?

 

[Notsince67]

Once again, Marner wanted to be the last to sign
And signing JT is somehow considered a messy?

'
The slow walk was Dubas' decision.

 

[Notsince67]

They would dump cap space to sign the amazing Marner.

Yeah... that will effectively negate what they said.
Good point
...not

 

[PromisedLand]

'
The slow walk was Dubas' decision.

Dubas is the definition of lack of good foresight; what a moronic decision

 

[Notsince67]

Dubas is the definition of lack of good foresight; what a moronic decision

By year 5 that decision will cost millions

 

[zeke]

If I had to trade one of the 3 Nylander is the one I'd choose to let go.

don't worry about it - thanks to Dubas, we don't need to trade any of our young elite talent.

 

[Cor]

For the record, I think Mitch Marner will be present when camp opens.

I tend to think it'll be a 3 year deal.

I tend to think it'll be in the 8.5M range.

10M of it will be paid in the final year as base salary, ensuring the Marner's qualifying offer for the 4th year is 10M. Similar to Timo Meier's deal.

8M of it will be paid as a signing bonus July 1st 2020, to ensure Marner gets paid if their is a lockout. 750K will be base salary.

Leaving 6.75M for this season, I imagine 6M will be paid immediately, and 750K will be the base salary.



Neither side is really happy with the deal, as that's probably 500K-1M more than TOR would like to pay for that term, and the Marner camp was hoping to be in the double digits on a 5 year term.

But it gets a deal done. Marner is in camp, which is what Toronto wants, and for Marner, he gets lockout protection, he gets that 10M qualifying offer, which he can sign, essentially making this a 4 year deal worth 35.5M, or close to 9M per.

 

[ToneDog]

Dubas is the definition of lack of good foresight; what a moronic decision

Some of the blame has to go to Shanny and the rest of his management staff. If somebody suggested this to Dubas and he disagreed when that is on him and Shanny.

 

[Notsince67]

For the record, I think Mitch Marner will be present when camp opens.

I tend to think it'll be a 3 year deal.

I tend to think it'll be in the 8.5M range.

10M of it will be paid in the final year as base salary, ensuring the Marner's qualifying offer for the 4th year is 10M. Similar to Timo Meier's deal.

8M of it will be paid as a signing bonus July 1st 2020, to ensure Marner gets paid if their is a lockout. 750K will be base salary.

Leaving 6.75M for this season, I imagine 6M will be paid immediately, and 750K will be the base salary.



Neither side is really happy with the deal, as that's probably 500K-1M more than TOR would like to pay for that term, and the Marner camp was hoping to be in the double digits on a 5 year term.

But it gets a deal done. Marner is in camp, which is what Toronto wants, and for Marner, he gets lockout protection, he gets that 10M qualifying offer, which he can sign, essentially making this a 4 year deal worth 35.5M, or close to 9M per.

I think that you are within +/- 500K of what will happen. I just don't see any other viable alternatives