Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVII (continued)

[The Hanging Jowl]

Tavares literally says nothing about Marner playing for the Leafs this season lol

Yeah I read through that twice trying to understand the headline.

 

[Notsince67]

I'd be okay with Draisaitl the 50 goal scorer for Marner? Not as pretty as Marner, but knows how to play off a generational talent.

Comparables:

Rantanen lead his team in the playoffs with points, even strength points and tied for lead in goals.
Rantanen 1.18 PPG and scored 31 goals in 74 games.

Colorado has a tonne of cap space.

Retaining on Barrie was inconsequential to their cap situation.

Does Rantanen even get close to 10?

Kucherov should be the standard for wingers who score a 100 points and over 35 goals.

Add cap inflation which was about what 3%?

Goals cost more than assists.

Marner: $9.785 million

Drai has the advantage just on the perceived value of his contract in hindsight. Should he regress next year and Marner holds to the same performance, that perception may fade.

 

[Nylander88]

I'll take Marner over Nylander every day of the week.

Me too!... at the same salaries. Salary cap world? Marner wanting Matthews pay day so his ask is 11.5 or 11 minimum? Nylander + 4.6m/4.1m or Marner? I take Nylander and $

 

[KPower]

Me too!... at the same salaries. Salary cap world? Marner wanting Matthews pay day so his ask is 11.5 or 11 minimum? Nylander + 4.6m/4.1m or Marner? I take Nylander and $

I’ll take Marner over Nylander+$4 million cap space quite easily.

 

[Nylander88]

All things equal in contract maybe. Nylander had an off year and started off playing late. Before that Marner was better but not by much. As of next year I agree with the guy you replied too. It may be a 10-15 point spread with a 3 mill gap in price

Compared to most garbage deals lately, Willy looks like a steal

Exactly. Will puts up 65+ points (VERY reasonable for him) over the next 5 years of his contract, he looks like a pretty good contract suddenly. I think too many people just have a sour last taste in their mouth and are struggling to look at the body of work. He didn't accidentally become a mediocre player overnight, and he showed that at season's end when playing at the world's. 18 points in that tournament is absolutely dominate

 

[Nylander88]

I’ll take Marner over Nylander+$4 million cap space quite easily.

Ouch. Can't argue with personal preference though. Best of luck filling out a competitive team outside of the "big 3" (Tavares, Matthews, Marner for you)
Let's say Muzzin will take 5.5 for some term certainty. That's a 1.5m raise. And Barrie's ask is 8, likely could be had for 7 per with term if he likes it here. That's a 4.25m raise on what he's costing us this year. 4.25+1.5= 5.75million. Take the Nylander to Marner savings of 4million (you actually cut it down from 4.1/4.6 which is the ask, but I'll play ball) and as long as the cap goes up 1.75mil next year which isn't unreasonable....suddenly you're talking Nylander+Barrie+Muzzin or Marner+Muzzin. I take the package of Nylander+Barrie+Muzzin personally. Don't look at the 4million as dead money. That 4 million is vital for keeping the team competitive

 

[stickty111]

I’ll take Marner over Nylander+$4 million cap space quite easily.

I'll take Nylander at 7 million and 4 million in cap space over Marner and 11 million.
@Nylander88 explained it well.

 

[Nylander88]

So tired at the ankle biting "nylander is just as good" crowd. Better to stay silent until Nylander accomplishes something fantastic and crow about it then. Right now it is a troll job.

He had similar years 1 and 2. Last year is a wash as it's clear his contract holdout screwed him over. Has been better on the international stage than Marner too. Better numbers at the same age in world Juniors. 2 more points than Marner and tournament MVP in 2017. Lead scorer again this year and Sweden record at 18points. Why do you make it sound like Nylander has 0 resume?lol take off the horse blinders and look at the body of work. Nobody is arguing Nylander is better than Marner. Nobody. People are either saying Nylander's contract isn't as bad as people make it out to seem, or that Nylander and $4mil is more valuable in a cap world than 1 Mitch Marner. The only comparable that works in Marner's favour is Nylander's forgettable year after a holdout and Marner blowing up beside superstar John Tavares. Like I said, take off the horse blinders, Nylander has done plenty to show he's a good player

 

[Nylander88]

I'd be okay with Draisaitl the 50 goal scorer for Marner? Not as pretty as Marner, but knows how to play off a generational talent.

50 goal 105 point Draisaitl? Out scored and out pointed Marner all of the last 3 years Draisaitl? Sure a year and a half older than Marner....but 6'2" 208lb Draisaitl? Plays both C and wing Draisaitl? 6 more years at 8.5million...likely 2-3million less with more term than Mitch Marner, Draisaitl?!? I pull that trigger all day long haha Pow... pow pow pow! Haha unfortunately Edmonton definitely does not pull that trigger. Chiarelli might have but Holland for sure won't. Draisaitl is the better player for cheaper. Marner is only a top 5 player in the league in his own mind (and a select few on here)

 

[PromisedLand]

I’ll take Marner over Nylander+$4 million cap space quite easily.

I'll take Marner over Nylander every day of the week.

Yup same here. Marner>>>Nylander

• Nylander plays lazy
• Does not hustle much defensively
• So if offense isn't there he is pretty much just dead weight on the ice and requires Matthews to produce

Marner produces with or without elite centers plenty of evidence of that

 

[thewave]

50 goal 105 point Draisaitl? Out scorer and out pointed Marner all of the last 3 years Draisaitl? Sure a year and a half older than Marner....but 6'2" 208lb Draisaitl? Plays both C and wing Draisaitl? 6 more years at 8.5million...likely 2-3million less with than Mitch Marner, Draisaitl?!? I pull that trigger all day long haha Pow... pow pow pow! Haha unfortunately Edmonton definitely does not pull that trigger. Chiarelli might have but Holland for sure won't. Draisaitl is the better player for cheaper. Marner is only a top 5 player in the league in his own mind (and a select few on here)

Hahaha Brains not required. Marner is delusional.

 

[thewave]

Yup same here. Marner>>>Nylander

• Nylander plays lazy
• Does not hustle much defensively
• So if offense isn't there he is pretty much just dead weight on the ice and requires Matthews to produce

Marner produces with or without elite centers plenty of evidence of that

There is no 4m gap, Nylander is a fine player once he gets going. Efficient not a dazzler. Much of Mitchysteria is his dazzle gets people going. Nylander actually started to hit vs Boston. Not giving up on him.

 

[ToneDog]

And where do you play point?
We moving Mattews or Tavares after we get rid of Marner?

Awesome problem to have. One of Tavares, Matthews or Point can play the wing or you could flip Point or (never thought I would say this) move Matthews and his contract. The trade makes sense money wise because TB gets Marner at Kuch dollars which is close to Matthews money in T.O. Point probably happy to sign for what Marner has turned down.

 

[Notsince67]

He had similar years 1 and 2. Last year is a wash as it's clear his contract holdout screwed him over. Has been better on the international stage than Marner too. Better numbers at the same age in world Juniors. 2 more points than Marner and tournament MVP in 2017. Lead scorer again this year and Sweden record at 18points. Why do you make it sound like Nylander has 0 resume?lol take off the horse blinders and look at the body of work. Nobody is arguing Nylander is better than Marner. Nobody. People are either saying Nylander's contract isn't as bad as people make it out to seem, or that Nylander and $4mil is more valuable in a cap world than 1 Mitch Marner. The only comparable that works in Marner's favour is Nylander's forgettable year after a holdout and Marner blowing up beside superstar John Tavares. Like I said, take off the horse blinders, Nylander has done plenty to show he's a good player

It works this way. Lining them up equates Nylander's year 1 and year 2 to Marners Year 2 and 3 due to age and elc years.
Nylander 61 61, marner 69 94
They are not the same player...sorry bout that

 

[Notsince67]

Awesome problem to have. One of Tavares, Matthews or Point can play the wing or you could flip Point or (never thought I would say this) move Matthews and his contract. The trade makes sense money wise because TB gets Marner at Kuch dollars which is close to Matthews money in T.O. Point probably happy to sign for what Marner has turned down.

Point is a fantastic player but he has limited value on the leafs. It is analogous to having a starting goaltender play a backup role to another starting goaltender.
Great but it is suboptimum

 

[ToneDog]

I'd be okay with Draisaitl the 50 goal scorer for Marner? Not as pretty as Marner, but knows how to play off a generational talent.

Comparables:

Rantanen lead his team in the playoffs with points, even strength points and tied for lead in goals.
Rantanen 1.18 PPG and scored 31 goals in 74 games.

Colorado has a tonne of cap space.

Retaining on Barrie was inconsequential to their cap situation.

Does Rantanen even get close to 10?

Kucherov should be the standard for wingers who score a 100 points and over 35 goals.

Add cap inflation which was about what 3%?

Goals cost more than assists.

Marner: $9.785 million

Why would Oilers want Marner and his ask for Drai who is making $1.5+ less than what Marner wants? IMO Marner and his ask works in TB, Dallas, Florida and Vegas because of the tax breaks.

 

[PromisedLand]

There is no 4m gap, Nylander is a fine player once he gets going. Efficient not a dazzler. Much of Mitchysteria is his dazzle gets people going. Nylander actually started to hit vs Boston. Not giving up on him.

Nylander got paid 10 million dollars in cash last season and had a pretty bad season.

if you look at the WOWY stats Nylander's play struggles tremendously without Matthews but Matthews still scores at a decent clip (these include advanced stats btw).

Marner is a match up guy plays against opppositions' top line, PK guy, PP quaterback, and sound defensively in even strength situations.

Marner made Kadri/Marleau better two seasons ago
JT had a career year in goals while playing with Marner

Marner is an elite talent, Nylander is a good offensive complementary player not an elite talent

As for the "hits"; it is not really about the hits but relentless puck pursuit; if you don't give opposition enough time and space to make plays that is more effective then trying to "hit" them. Marner has dogged determination and relentless puck pursuit he hardly gives up on plays - and makes his line mates a lot better

all of the above cannot be said about Nylander

 

[Walshy7]

Why would Oilers want Marner and his ask for Drai who is making $1.5+ less than what Marner wants? IMO Marner and his ask works in TB, Dallas, Florida and Vegas because of the tax breaks.

Tampa have point who played center and scored the same points with 40 goals too. Tampa wouldn’t do marner for point no way.

If Tampa called and asked to swap you say yes and immediately call the league before they come to their senses.

Point has said don’t bother with offersheets he wants to stay in Tampa, while we have marner making trips to drum up offer sheets. Allegedly

 

[ToneDog]

Tampa have point who played center and scored the same points with 40 goals too. Tampa wouldn’t do marner for point no way.

If Tampa called and asked to swap you say yes and immediately call the league before they come to their senses.

Point has said don’t bother with offersheets he wants to stay in Tampa, while we have marner making trips to drum up offer sheets. Allegedly

Sure Point has said he wants to stay in TB but we are talking trading for him. TB would have to be sour on Point and giddy on Marner so you are right, it ain't happening.

 

[Nylander88]

It works this way. Lining them up equates Nylander's year 1 and year 2 to Marners Year 2 and 3 due to age and elc years.
Nylander 61 61, marner 69 94
They are not the same player...sorry bout that

They're a year apart bud. Stop making it sound like one broke into the league at 25 lol

 

[Nylander88]

Nylander got paid 10 million dollars in cash last season and had a pretty bad season.

In all likelyhood they wrote him a cheque. Government wouldn't be too fond of a cash deal

 

[ToneDog]

Nylander got paid 10 million dollars in cash last season and had a pretty bad season.

if you look at the WOWY stats Nylander's play struggles tremendously without Matthews but Matthews still scores at a decent clip (these include advanced stats btw).

Marner is a match up guy plays against opppositions' top line, PK guy, PP quaterback, and sound defensively in even strength situations.

Marner made Kadri/Marleau better two seasons ago
JT had a career year in goals while playing with Marner

Marner is an elite talent, Nylander is a good offensive complementary player not an elite talent

As for the "hits"; it is not really about the hits but relentless puck pursuit; if you don't give opposition enough time and space to make plays that is more effective then trying to "hit" them. Marner has dogged determination and relentless puck pursuit he hardly gives up on plays - and makes his line mates a lot better

all of the above cannot be said about Nylander

Jury is out on Nylander. Reset may help him if he comes in with the right mindset. Marner is a fantastic talent but if he refuses to come down to earth and accept that the Leafs cannot afford him at Matthews money, what do you do ??? I have said it before, one of the 3 amigos needs to go.

 

[PromisedLand]

In all likelyhood they wrote him a cheque. Government wouldn't be too fond of a cash deal

lol you know what I mean man. 10M less taxes is still pretty good for a year. Could you imagine getting paid like that at work and having poor results; you would get sacked and the person that gave you that money would get sacked lol

 

[ShaneFalco]

Do you think any of the other high profile RFAs are being shopped too? If not why not? Which ones do you think we should be in on, if so?

No idea because you don't hear anything about them. This is looking like it's going down to the wire and they can't and won't let him sit

 

[horner]

Doesnt sound like a kid that Tavares thinks he carried. Kadri had some interesting comments too.

Sad that leaf fans don't appreciate what we have .
The massive improvement in this kid from December of 2017.
The stronger that this kid gets, the better he will be.
It's funny how our own fans want to knock him down.
Iam sure coaches on other teams have more respect for what this player does , than some people on this board.,