Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)

[ORRFForever]

If Marner does not get what he wants, he should hold out. If he holds out and :

1) JT starts slowly;
2) Matthews gets hurt;
3) The Leafs play poorly,

The Leafs will come begging.

If not, the Leafs will always be willing to pay Marner in the $9.5M range so take it and tell the team you will be leaving as soon as you become a UFA.

 

[ORRFForever]

Yea 500K here, 1M there, two million somewhere else, and no way to sign decent support players. Not sure why people don't understand; overpaying players means less to sign other players. The cap is the same for every team,. Cap space is more important then overpaid players. Does anyone remember what Marleau cost?

I do understand. I just wish the Leafs understood before they gave Matthews $11.65M/yr.

 

[stickty111]

Hope its September (or even earlier of course), but this is eerily reminiscent of the Nylander situation.

I think we are going to see a bunch of lopsided Marner trade proposals now like most/many of them on this page.

Lopsided for the other team.
You shouldn't pretend most of the proposals are in favor of the Leafs. 90% of the trade scenarios on HF hurts the leafs.

 

[lschenn02]

If Marner does not get what he wants, he should hold out. If he holds out and :

1) JT starts slowly;
2) Matthews gets hurt;
3) The Leafs play poorly,

The Leafs will come begging.

If not, the Leafs will always be willing to pay Marner in the $9.5M range so take it and tell the team you will be leaving as soon as you become a UFA.

If he holds out into the season, does it not make it even harder to sign him as his cap hit year 1 will be inflated? much like how nylanders cap hit was inflated to above 10M for the first year.. Im not sure the leafs will be able to fit him in if he holds out too deep into the season due to that reason.

 

[ORRFForever]

If he holds out into the season, does it not make it even harder to sign him as his cap hit year 1 will be inflated? much like how nylanders cap hit was inflated to above 10M for the first year.. Im not sure the leafs will be able to fit him in if he holds out too deep into the season due to that reason.

Fair point.

The Leafs could always trade the dead wood (see Nylander).

 

[Nineteen67]

If Marner does not get what he wants, he should hold out. If he holds out and :

1) JT starts slowly;
2) Matthews gets hurt;
3) The Leafs play poorly,

The Leafs will come begging.

If not, the Leafs will always be willing to pay Marner in the $9.5M range so take it and tell the team you will be leaving as soon as you become a UFA.

Why wouldn’t he ask for a trade to a better market? Wouldn’t that be much easier?

 

[LaPlante94]

I just saying the Leafs should avoid burning bridges with Marner. If an extra $500K makes him happy, sign the cheque.

If they've been having problems this entire time over 500k then we got bigger issues to worry about here. It's too bad Matthews just didn't sign for 10.5 and Marner 9 or they did what Kane and Toews did and just met in the middle and both sign for 10 mil. Just sucks thinking that we may have to move lose Rielly when his deals over unless all our D men are making under 2 mil at that time and Woll or Scott has become the starting goalie on a free contract basically.

 

[stickty111]

There's no heresay here my friend, and it is absolutely 100% not based on nothing.

Marner's agent came out in public and slammed Matthews' contract. These things are rooted somewhere, if there was no ego involved Mitch would have told him to shut his mouth.

There's no need to lie or deny reality.

It's no use man, some think Marner is the perfect person.

 

[ORRFForever]

Why wouldn’t he ask for a trade to a better market? Wouldn’t that be much easier?

Good point as well.

(* Full Disclosure : I think Marner is being a bit of a hard ass and needs to be more compromising. *)

 

[stickty111]

I hear JVR and Bozak held him back but how come Phil Kessel never had any problems being elite with them?

Now I'm not saying I necessarily believe this, just playing a bit of devil's advocate.

There was a certain poster on here blaming JVR and Bozak for Marner's struggles a couple seasons ago. I believe the comment was "he got tired of carrying JVR and Bozak".
Last time I checked, one of those players is a Stanley cup champion.
The funny thing is Brown had no problem on that line.

 

[ORRFForever]

If they've been having problems this entire time over 500k then we got bigger issues to worry about here. It's too bad Matthews just didn't sign for 10.5 and Marner 9 or they did what Kane and Toews did and just met in the middle and both sign for 10 mil. Just sucks thinking that we may have to move lose Rielly when his deals over unless all our D men are making under 2 mil at that time and Woll or Scott has become the starting goalie on a free contract basically.

I agree with you.

Matthews should have been paid $10.5M and Marner $9.5M. By overpaying Nylander, they ending up overpaying Matthews, and may end up overpaying Marner.

 

[ORRFForever]

It's no use man, some think Marner is the perfect person.

I say the same thing when I read the posts of Matthews fans - they think he's perfect.

This team is torn between fans who think Marner is better than he is, versus fans who think Matthews is better than he is.

 

[Nineteen67]

Good point as well.

(* Full Disclosure : I think Marner is being a bit of a hard ass and needs to be more compromising. *)

I think he either has a deal completed or he wants out. Not much to negotiate at this point.

 

[ORRFForever]

I think he either has a deal completed or he wants out. Not much to negotiate at this point.

I can't imagine he wants out - he's home, playing for his dream team, with endorsements coming out of his ears. I just think he feels disrespected and under appreciated it. Maybe he's right or maybe's he insecure.

 

[ORRFForever]

In the Leafs defense, Marner chose to negotiate LAST. When you do that, you risk (in a Salary Cap environment) there will be no money left.

Marner should have gotten his money early and not been jealous if Matthews got more later.

 

[Rob Brown]

I say the same thing when I read the posts of Matthews fans - they think he's perfect.

This team is torn between fans who think Marner is better than he is, versus fans who think Matthews is better than he is.

Matthews isn't perfect but him and his camp handled the contract negotiations way more professionally. You didn't see his agent slamming anyone. His parents don't talk publicly and come to virtually every home game. Not even debatable that Matthews has proven to be more mature and professional.

 

[ORRFForever]

Matthews isn't perfect but him and his camp handled the contract negotiations way more professionally. You didn't see his agent slamming anyone. His parents don't talk publicly and come to virtually every home game. Not even debatable that Matthews has proven to be more mature and professional.

That's fair.

 

[diceman934]

Marner plays with JVR has his best goal scoring year. Plays with JT who has his best goal scoring year. Plays less then half a season with Kadri and Kadri has his best goal scoring year. Plays with Bozak and Bozak has his best year in points as a Leaf when Mitch was a rookie. That includes him playing with Kessel. Let’s look at Marleau who produced at 63point pace the last 37 games including playoffs. Yeah he was carried by JT this year. My lord I find it hard to understand how people can claim they know anything about hockey abs then say that Mitch does not drive offence.

He is a franchise player.

 

[Notsince67]

What is the idea that Marner is as good as Matthew's based on? AM was on pace for 44 and 88 playing with third liners, what do you think those numbers would've been had he played with a winger who is as good as Tavares? Why does this very obvious point not get brought up more by the fans and media?

Matthews is the wrong guy to pair with Tavares. They are both shoot first guys. I would bet Matthews does better with a Nylander or Marner if they are playing well.

 

[leafan11]

Now you're switching your goalposts. You said in the cap era... which one is it?

Ok in the cap era which winger has signed for 13% of the cap? Maybe Ovie did but he’s the greatest goal scorer ever.

 

[Notsince67]

You don't honestly believe this, do you?

Wasn't it his shoulder that was the issue this season, anyways?

They are connected

 

[Menzinger]

I say the same thing when I read the posts of Matthews fans - they think he's perfect.

This team is torn between fans who think Marner is better than he is, versus fans who think Matthews is better than he is.

That's being generous.

Theres more like a very small but very vocal group that overrated Marners abilities.

I'd say about 80% of the fanbase doesnt see it as competition between the two.

 

[Notsince67]

I do understand. I just wish the Leafs understood before they gave Matthews $11.65M/yr.

...or Ceci 4.5MM. If Dubas needs cap for that, he shouldn't have anymore.

 

[MyBudJT]

They are connected

Well, the body is connected, a knee injury can cause back injuries. I'm not suggesting otherwise... it just seems like Matthews have few to many injuries to suggest they're all connected (IMO).

 

[Mr Hockey]

Matthews isn't perfect but him and his camp handled the contract negotiations way more professionally. You didn't see his agent slamming anyone. His parents don't talk publicly and come to virtually every home game. Not even debatable that Matthews has proven to be more mature and professional.

Matthews basically told Dubas to pick deal A, B or C, there was no negotiation