Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)

[Stephen]

Anything "leaked" to the media for reporting has literally no bearing on the negotiation and has nothing to do with you as a fan.

But I mean if it riles you up that bad, continue spazzing on forums and Twitter.

That'll show em....

They're not leaks when Marner's agent goes and complains about the Leafs lowballing Marner the day Matthews gets signed.

The notion that Marner should be considered for Leafs captain. (No amount of points will make you captain material when you act like Matt Martin's little brother).

The refusal to give the Leafs a hometown discount after the rookie bonus fiasco. (Boohoo, especially when this guy is going to get 8 figures).

Insisting on going last in negotiations.

Threats of shopping for offer sheets around the league.

 

[Notsince67]

Not true at all.
People going on about 'egos' have no clue.

I don't think he has an ego problem at all. His approach to the game though mirrors a lot of high functioning individuals I know. Their biggest critics are themselves and they push hard. They will never agree that they can't be better than anyone because of their sheer will. It isn't that they think they are currently better than everyone.

 

[Stephen]

I've been wondering what it would take next year to appease the masses as far as Marner point production should he get 10.5MM x 6
This last year stats are
82 Games, 26 Goals, 68 assists, 94 points

We all know Marners goals need to go up and there are period adjusted point considerations. I wont bias the take so I leave it up to others to decide.
I'm thinking closer to 33 goals and 100 points and 67 assists. I think I'm being rough on him but other people might not think this.
Haters are going to hate but they will likely go the way of Minus Mitch...likely abandoning their account if Marner hits these number
Interested in people's opinion

Patrick Kane had 44 goals and 66 assists for 110 points this past season. That would be acceptable.

 

[Notsince67]

Patrick Kane had 44 goals and 66 assists for 110 points this past season. That would be acceptable.

So you realize that Kane's current UFA contract is the equivalent to 12.4MM for 8 years right?

 

[Stephen]

So you realize that Kane's current UFA contract is the equivalent to 12.4MM for 8 years right?

If you want big boy money, bring big boy numbers.

 

[Bomber0104]

They're not leaks when Marner's agent goes and complains about the Leafs lowballing Marner the day Matthews gets signed.

The notion that Marner should be considered for Leafs captain. (No amount of points will make you captain material when you act like Matt Martin's little brother).

The refusal to give the Leafs a hometown discount after the rookie bonus fiasco. (Boohoo, especially when this guy is going to get 8 figures).

Insisting on going last in negotiations.

Threats of shopping for offer sheets around the league.

What does any of this matter to you as a fan or the negotiation though?

If Dubas is anywhere near as knee-jerk and emotional as some people around here, we're in big trouble.

Luckily I think he's a little more level-headed than that, and not on the brink of making a stupid decision on Marner all because of a Darren Dreger tweet

 

[Kiwi]

So you realize that Kane's current UFA contract is the equivalent to 12.4MM for 8 years right?

And Kanes RFA contract would be about 9M×5 cap adjusted

Pretty much what Aho got

 

[Trapper]

So you realize that Kane's current UFA contract is the equivalent to 12.4MM for 8 years right?

So do you think Marner scoring 20+ less goals is worthy of a 2 mil difference?

Like 10.5 x 8?

 

[Notsince67]

If you want big boy money, bring big boy numbers.

So you are expecting a career high number for Patrick Kane who is in the 5th year of a UFA with significantly more money....I guess we will mark you down as a hater.

 

[Superstar]

Matthews is clearly more valuable than Marner if you consider that another team would likely be more motivated to offer sheet Matthews than Marner at crazy money.

I think we've forgotten how elite Matthews is due to his injuries in the last couple of years. Can't wait to see him play a full, healthy season again. Matthews hasn't hit his prime or even become a man yet. And get Willy back on his wing again!

 

[Notsince67]

And Kanes RFA contract would be about 9M×5 cap adjusted

Pretty much what Aho got

I put the RFA number up which is just north of that and his first 2 years of RFA performance. The poster chose a performance point in his UFA contract which is considerably higher.
Salary Cap: - Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)

 

[Pookie]

To add some context...Tavares finished 1 point behind Benn for the Art Ross with lesser points...scoring is up, so you could call it a career year, but it's only 2 more points than his previous career high...like 2.3% more...meanwhile Marner had a career high of over 36% more than his previous year. Tavares was also a Hart finalist. Has Marner ever been nominated for the league MVP or finished 2nd in the Art Ross race? Marner is playing with an elite franchise #1 centre. Once the Leafs signed Tavares last July and news leaked that Babcock would be playing Marner on his wing, I thought, and so did many that Marner's numbers would skyrocket...and they did.

So... wait... are you saying that Marner outpointed a Hart Trophy finalist and a player 2nd in the Art Ross race?

 

[Superstar]

So... wait... are you saying that Marner outpointed a Hart Trophy finalist and a player 2nd in the Art Ross race?

somethin' about coat-tail riding or somethin' somethin'...and since Marner beat out Tavares, he should have been within a couple of points of Kucherov for the Art Ross and made him sweat for the league MVP...

 

[KuleminFan41]

It is rather silly no not see that Kucherov has a higher percentage of the cap at his signing than Stamkos, who actually went on a shopping expedition for better deals

I already explained to you why his contract takes up a higher percentage. Being stubborn about it doesn't change the facts surrounding both contracts and when they were signed. There are very important details that you're willfully ignoring because it doesn't actually suit your narrative. Hell, Crosby isn't even the highest paid player on his team, but that hardly means Malkin is valued more or is a better player

 

[Notsince67]

So do you think Marner scoring 20+ less goals is worthy of a 2 mil difference?

Like 10.5 x 8?

Again I was comparing RFA wingers AAV and their first 2 year performance points to come up with a reasonable projection of what Marner needed to produce of he hit a contract of 10.5 x 6 year.
Salary Cap: - Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)
Kane just hit that career high point in the 5th year of his UFA contract.
We are talking apples and oranges here. kane didn't hit over 30 goals until the first year of his UFA contract and his maximum point total in his rfa years were 73 points

 

[Notsince67]

I already explained to you why his contract takes up a higher percentage. Being stubborn about it doesn't change the facts surrounding both contracts and when they were signed. There are very important details that you're willfully ignoring because it doesn't actually suit your narrative. Hell, Crosby isn't even the highest paid player on his team, but that hardly means Malkin is valued more or is a better player

You realize that the full cap is 100%. How do individual players see a growth in cap percentage? it is ridiculous. You can't exceed 100% in aggregate

 

[MyBudJT]

I think we've forgotten how elite Matthews is due to his injuries in the last couple of years. Can't wait to see him play a full, healthy season again. Matthews hasn't hit his prime or even become a man yet. And get Willy back on his wing again!

I still find it crazy Matthews hasn't scored another hat trick since his first NHL game.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Again I was comparing RFA wingers AAV and their first 2 year performance points to come up with a reasonable projection of what Marner needed to produce of he hit a contract of 10.5 x 6 year.
Salary Cap: - Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)
Kane just hit that career high point in the 5th year of his UFA contract.
We are talking apples and oranges here. kane didn't hit over 30 goals until the first year of his UFA contract and his maximum point total in his rfa years were 73 points

Except if Marner is going to sign a UFA value contract, which going by any of the reported number is the plan, it's not apples and oranges at all.

 

[hector morrison]

I don't think Dubas would be in a better situation...he would be in a nightmarish situation because Matthews would have received offersheets in the $13 million plus salary range from multiple teams...a big, elite goal-scoring franchise #1 centre who scored 40 goals as a rookie...sign me up!

Anyone/everyone ranting about how Dubas got taken on the Matthews deal should really consider the alternatives. I don't think most fans realise how desperate some teams are...To think Matthews would not have received an offer sheet is naive.

My take from Leaf fans on these boards has been that 4 firsts for Marner and the money left over to spend on other decent players is acceptable( I too ,would take that deal) ,yet I highly doubt that any Leaf fan would be satisfied with 4 firsts and 11M to spend in place of Matthews.

One could argue that Tavares is enough if you surround him with decent caliber players,but he is just hitting the peak of his career,so the window to win with John as the main man is less open than it would be with Matthews around.

 

[Notsince67]

Except if Marner is going to sign a UFA value contract, which going by any of the reported number is the plan, it's not apples and oranges at all.

Salary Cap: - Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)
Did I list UFA contracts here?

 

[Pookie]

somethin' about coat-tail riding or somethin' somethin'...and since Marner beat out Tavares, he should have been within a couple of points of Kucherov for the Art Ross and made him sweat for the league MVP...

Can you ride coat-tails while being in front?

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Salary Cap: - Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)
Did I list UFA contracts here?

If Marner signs the highest winger contact in the game he will be compared to the best wingers in the game. UFA or no. Full stop. I don't care what Thomas Vanek did after a terrible offer sheet. Even from your examples Kane was coming off a top 10 scoring finish, a cup, and nearly 30 playoff points and he signed for an adjusted 9, wouldn't that be swell. Kucherov also had not made the jump to the player he is now, and that's reflected by his meager salary. Honestly I'd be fine with Marner at 10.5 getting 100 points, that sounds totally okay but let's not limit his comparisons to RFA's if he is going to sign what is, for all intents and purposes, a UFA contract.

Anyway, its summer, I check on this thread once a week for updates, I have neither the inclination nor energy to get into a whole thing here right now. But if Marner is going to be paid the highest, he will be judged accordingly.

 

[Pookie]

How hard is it to spell our #1 overall pick franchise centers name correctly?

Mathews?

Seems like it is prety hard to spel it correctly.

 

[Notsince67]

If Marner signs the highest winger contact in the game he will be compared to the best wingers in the game. UFA or no. Full stop. I don't care what Thomas Vanek did after a terrible offer sheet. Even from your examples Kane was coming off a top 10 scoring finish, a cup, and nearly 30 playoff points and he signed for an adjusted 9, wouldn't that be swell. Kucherov also had not made the jump to the player he is now, and that's reflected by his meager salary. Honestly I'd be fine with Marner at 10.5 getting 100 points, that sounds totally okay but let's not limit his comparisons to RFA's if he is going to sign what is, for all intents and purposes, a UFA contract.

Anyway, its summer, I check on this thread once a week for updates, I have neither the inclination nor energy to get into a whole thing here right now. But if Marner is going to be paid the highest, he will be judged accordingly.

You clearly have little understanding of Cap percentages. By your logic, Matthews shouldn't have made Crosby's cap of 8.7MM

 

[81Leafs50]

You where comparing them to all the NHL. Mathews has not been close to the top 10 in points in any season. Marner has. Even strength points this year top 5 even. Even strength assist top 5.

Marner smoked Mathews in even strength points. This season.

2018-2019
Matthews
Even strength goals 1.382
Even Strength Points 2.931

Per All situations

1.759 goals

1.712 assists

3.471 points

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Marner
Even strength goals 1.014
Even Strength Points 3.226

Per All situations

0.960 goals

2.510 assists

3.470 points

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Marner 12th in assists and 22nd points since being drafted.