Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)

[1specter]

Please sign an offer sheet and f*** off

 

[ShaneFalco]

Interesting take from the agent given that we definitively know it was Nylander that caved, not Dubas.

Yup emany assumed it was Dubas. Actually to have him sit out for a while was a smart, guyts move - and given that they were considered contenders having him sit out the whole year wouldn't have sat very well with fans. No prob with the way he handled Nylander

 

[mydnyte]

That doesn't compute unfortunately. You can have a slice of cake and eat it. You can not have the cake and eat it too, sorry Mitch. See ya in Ohio.

that has got to be one of the worst sayings in history...
the whole point of someone giving you cake is to eat it!!

 

[mydnyte]

delete please

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Aho doesn't count now? Where is this being said?

I only know of one poster who insists he's not a comparable because he's a "2nd round pick" for whatever the hell that means.

The talking heads on verdrive tried saying that too...that Aho isn't a comparable based on his draft position...ok then you can't have your cake and eat it too...
If Aho doesn't count based on draft position Neither does Matthews as he went #1 and Marner went #4 sorry kiddo better find a #4 to compare to if that's the game you want to play

 

[Bomber0104]

Interesting take from the agent given that we definitively know it was Nylander that caved, not Dubas.

Yup emany assumed it was Dubas. Actually to have him sit out for a while was a smart, guyts move - and given that they were considered contenders having him sit out the whole year wouldn't have sat very well with fans. No prob with the way he handled Nylander

Good to know you guys will have absolutely zero problem with Marner potentially sitting out half the season to hold out for more money!

 

[Anthrax442]

1 year ago: "Mitch is better than Willy, screw Willy for wanting a contract, we has Mitch, he is the best"
Now: "Mitch is a greedy bum, take your money somewhere else and f*** off"

 

[Sypher04]

Good to know you guys will have absolutely zero problem with Marner potentially sitting out half the season to hold out for more money!

Well, I've already clearly stated that I think it needs to be done by season start, and ideally training camp, but sure you take from it what you wish lol.

 

[CellarDweller0]

You can make anyone and anything look pretty with the amount of metrics they throw on the table. It's all BS.

100% Agree with this. There are so many stats now that you can shape them to support any argument. A value of a stat is a subjective thing, what a GM says he values higher vs. what stat an Agent or Player says has higher value is hard to argue.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

not long ago Leafs fans woould have given there left nut for a Marner type player ...

We are thankful for Marner make no mistake about it...we appreciate his skill and desire...not to mention how good of a man this guy seems to be off the ice in terms of community involvement etc...but it's a hard cap...he knows what he can get and what is realistic...in the end we (fans) don't love a player over the team...we were Leafs fans before we were Marner fans... so if Marner wants to jack the team in terms of money when he knows as well as anyone what situation the team is in...then fans rightly go...Really? over a million or so? GTFOH it's tiring for fans of the team to watch players/their agents attempt to bend the team over a barrel

 

[Marshy]

Marner signs now or on Sept 30 what is the difference in Dubas offers?

Sept 30 offer > July 16 offer. -----> therefore if you're Paul Marner you wait. No sense telling Mitch to sign now.

 

[Stephen]

Just funny how Marner wants this and that but isn’t willing to compromise on a number that already makes him a premium salary at position and career stage. Take a look at Kevin Labanc. That guy wants to be a Shark more than anything...

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Point > Marner > Aho > Ranta > Tkachuk
11M > 9.5M > 8.5M > 8M > 7.5M
but Mitch will get a Toronto premium to 10.5M (because we overpaid 1M for Matty and Willy)
and Point will take Florida state tax deduction to 9.5M

 

[diceman934]

I don't agree with the post you quoted leaving Marner out at all, but I also don't agree with how you've chosen to skew things to make Marner look better either.

Matthews missed 14 games. This is not a point that should be overlooked or used against him.
When Matthews was in the lineup he was as good as anyone on this team.

If you wanna look purely at points.
Auston was on pace for 45 goals and 88 points
Mitch had 25 goals and 91 points (at ES and PP)

*I left out PK simply for the sake of best comparison. As Matthews didn't play PK and otherwise their icetime/game was near identical on the season

Leaving out his pk points is laughable. He missed quality 5 on 5 time first shift after pp against other teams. That hurt his production. Mathews was not the better player. Mitch carried the team for much of the season.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Is he? Source?

As far as I know we haven't heard from him in 6-8 months, and have only ever heard from him 2-3 times in the four years since we drafted Marner.

And 2-3 times is way too many times for a guy that has literally 0 to do with the situation aside from trying to be hockey's Lavar Ball (quieter, more respectful but still an absolute clown)

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Interesting take from the agent given that we definitively know it was Nylander that caved, not Dubas.

We know that it was Nylander who "caved" by calling Dubas in the last hour. Both sides say that.

But Nylander didn't call to accept Dubas' offer.

Nylander specifically said he started with "Let's make a deal".

Dubas is the one that caved when making that last deal.

 

[MyBudJT]

Pretty simple point I'm making. If you are offered $10 million and turn it down, you are ungrateful and obviously more concerned with yourself than what is objectively fair. Also known as: 'greed'.

How did you select that 10M threshold. If someone turns down a 1M offer, are they also greedy?

 

[Martin Skoula]

We know that it was Nylander who "caved" by calling Dubas in the last hour. Both sides say that.

But Nylander didn't call to accept Dubas' offer.

Nylander specifically said he started with "Let's make a deal".

Dubas is the one that caved when making that last deal.

That's why we're paying Nylander the 8.5 he wanted.

 

[al secord]

Please sign an offer sheet and **** off

I know. I hate great players too.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

1 year ago: "Mitch is better than Willy, screw Willy for wanting a contract, we has Mitch, he is the best"
Now: "Mitch is a greedy bum, take your money somewhere else and **** off"

When players hold out for more than fair market value, fans get angry. I don't know what you're confused about. I don't understand what you're trying to say is hypocritical.

Other fan bases haven't turned on their high profile rfa's... but those players have behaved differently.

Aho ended up signing for fair market value. Point came right out and said he won't talk to other teams and is still negotiating in good faith. And nobody's heard a peep from the Rantanen camp.

Pretty much no leaf fans turned on the Nylander camp unitl after the season started. The same would probably happen with Point and Rantanen.

But the specific words/actions from Paul and the agent have rubbed a lot leaf fans the wrong way. And, in my opinion, with good reason.

 

[diceman934]

How many times must someone raise the fact that as a center, Toews had more goals than winger kane in their ELC? They got paid the same
How many times must someone point out that Stamkos as a center had more goals before his last contract than Kucherov did his, yet Kucherov got paid a higher cap percentage?
This stuff is pure propaganda.

Far to many times is the answer. Why people believe this nonsense is beyond me.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Conversely it's coincidental that Tavares sets a career high in goals with 47, getting 40+ for the first time in his career, when paired with Mitch.

This has been said SO MANY times...they benefited from playing on the same line...Tavares saw a modest increase in points, difference being he had more goals...Marner had a career year with Tavares as his C...the difficult part really is (if we are being absolutely honest) how much of that career year was natural progression by Marner and how much of it was because he had an elite C to play with who could finish his wizardry...it's not a knock on either guy...it's just a straight response looking at the facts

 

[57 Years No Cup]

That's not a very sound logic though. Using your scenario here, Auston Matthews was prevented from going to work, he didn't refuse to show up or else his production would have continued. Him stopping was out of his hands because of sick leave. Plenty of jobs don't judge their employees entirely off day to day production, because you can have a couple bad days of production, but if you are in the top for production, you aren't going to get fired. However, someone who shows up every day and has the lowest but consistent production, isn't going to get a raise because they're consistent. At the end of the day, most jobs, and most companies look at performance by quarters per year, not by daily numbers.

Again, I'm not "blaming" him for being injured. It's just a fact. As were his point totals.

Woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't work in the real world.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

That's why we're paying Nylander the 8.5 he wanted.

What a weird stance.

So if he asked for 10, Nylander would have "caved" if he accepted 8.5?

 

[JayfromNB1219]

It is worth nothing though that league scoring is up a fair bit relative to Tavares' other best years. Tavares has also finished in the top-5 in goals twice before as well. Tavares has also made a career out of elevating his wingers production, although he's never had one outscore him like Marner did.

Marner is also the best winger he has had the opportunity to play with in the NHL