Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XVI (continued)

[93LEAFS]

You were talking about their best goalscoring seasons, why do you keep twisting your words to fit this weird Marner obsession you have?

Yeah he's an elite playmaker. He isn't a generational player that gives everyone he looks at a career best. Getting JVR 2 more points than his Kessel season doesn't mean anything. Getting Bozak a few more points doesn't either. The team around them in general got way better than it was with Kessel.

Having a 6 extra secondary assists doesn't do anything to convince me he carried Tavares like people keep pretending. Marner did his job, nothing more nothing less.

JVR had his most efficent year scoring 5v5 with Marner, he just played more minutes with Kessel. JVR's two best years as a leaf in regards to overall P/60 came playing with Marner. And, Kessel is generally regarded as atleast a top 15 winger in the game, and this was with a 19 and 20 year old Marner. Carlyle and Babcock have dramatically different usage patterns for their star players. JVR in the year you are referencing played 21 minutes a game in 2013/14, in 2016/17 he played 16 minutes a game. You seem to be overlooking that part of the equation. JVR's best year on a per-minute basis was 2016/17 with a 19-year-old Marner.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Excuses are all we ever hear from Matthews apologists. He is GREAT / GENERATIONAL / ONE OF THE TOP PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE (!!!) but he hasn't been because...

1) He's still injured;
2) His wingers suck;
3) Babcock isn't using him properly;
4) Babcock is picking on him;
5) He doesn't want to get injured and risk his big payday.

Well, no more. It is time for Matthews to <bleep> or get off the pot.

You seem kinda invested in this. Does Matthews intimidate you or something? Trigger daddy issues maybe?

 

[diceman934]

Players in terms of importance
Matthews
Andersen
Rielly
Tavares

Marner isn't even close to being the most important to the team.

You missed spelled Marner.

Marner
Tavares
Rielly
Mathews
Anderson.

Mathews just edged out Rielly in points last year and was 21 points behind Marner who lead the team in scoring.

Until Mathews plays like our best player he is not. Funny how that works that way.

 

[diceman934]

JVR had his most efficent year scoring 5v5 with Marner, he just played more minutes with Kessel. JVR's two best years as a leaf in regards to overall P/60 came playing with Marner. And, Kessel is generally regarded as atleast a top 15 winger in the game, and this was with a 19 and 20 year old Marner. Carlyle and Babcock have dramatically different usage patterns for their star players. JVR in the year you are referencing played 21 minutes a game in 2013/14, in 2016/17 he played 16 minutes a game. You seem to be overlooking that part of the equation. JVR's best year on a per-minute basis was 2016/17 with a 19-year-old Marner.

People want to belief that Marner was the one who was lucky to play with JVR and Bozak. It is pure nonsense.

 

[TimeZone]

I asked my Sens fan girlfriend point blank...

Me: "You've watched quite a few Leafs games the past 3 years right?"

Her: "Ya."

Me: "If you could only keep one, Matthews or Marner who would you keep."

Her: "Hmmm.. Marner was better last year...it's close but Matthews.

This changes everything.

 

[Martin Skoula]

JVR had his most efficent year scoring 5v5 with Marner, he just played more minutes with Kessel. JVR's two best years as a leaf in regards to overall P/60 came playing with Marner. And, Kessel is generally regarded as atleast a top 15 winger in the game, and this was with a 19 and 20 year old Marner. Carlyle and Babcock have dramatically different usage patterns for their star players. JVR in the year you are referencing played 21 minutes a game in 2013/14, in 2016/17 he played 16 minutes a game. You seem to be overlooking that part of the equation. JVR's best year on a per-minute basis was 2016/17 with a 19-year-old Marner.

Sure, that's also the first year we had offensive depth and competent play drivers on the blueline though. How do we isolate Marner's impact? JVR seemed to produce fine in low minutes in the second half of 2017/18 with Connor Brown instead of Marner.

 

[Notsince67]

People want to belief that Marner was the one who was lucky to play with JVR and Bozak. It is pure nonsense.

You can throw all the proof that disproves this yet cognitive dissonance is a real thing around here. The trash is being thrown by the buckets lately. xbox live must be down

 

[The Magic Man]

I wonder if the boards on Colorado, Calgary etc are this whiney over their RFAs not being signed. I don't recall the Nylander saga being this brutal. It's still July, right?

 

[93LEAFS]

Sure, that's also the first year we had offensive depth and competent play drivers on the blueline though. How do we isolate Marner's impact? JVR seemed to produce fine in low minutes in the second half of 2017/18 with Connor Brown instead of Marner.

There is no clear cut way. But, Marner was key in JVR having his most efficient season ever despite the fact he was a 19 year old, and JVR had full seasons with more minutes with a prime Kessel. You can't just say "he only got one more point with Marner" for his career high but just ignore the fact he played 5 fewer minutes a game. That's not really a fair representation of the debate.

 

[Martin Skoula]

There is no clear cut way. But, Marner was key in JVR having his most efficient season ever despite the fact he was a 19 year old, and JVR had full seasons with more minutes with a prime Kessel. You can't just say "he only got one more point with Marner" for his career high but just ignore the fact he played 5 fewer minutes a game. That's not really a fair representation of the debate.

Why did JVR not suffer when Marner was taken off his line next year? He was on pace for a 35/60 season again with low minutes in Philly this year again too.

I'm sure Marner helped JVR score some more, but this isn't a Thornton/Cheechoo relationship. The impact he had is barely worth discussing in the scope of contract talks.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

You missed spelled Marner.

Marner
Tavares
Rielly
Mathews
Anderson.

Mathews just edged out Rielly in points last year and was 21 points behind Marner who lead the team in scoring.

Until Mathews plays like our best player he is not. Funny how that works that way.

I know being the grammar police is a tired meme at this point and please don't take this the wrong way plus I'm sure I'll be exposed by a typo in the next 24 hours but that may well be the most poorly constructed sentence in history.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I wonder if the boards on Colorado, Calgary etc are this whiney over their RFAs not being signed. I don't recall the Nylander saga being this brutal. It's still July, right?

Cereal? The Nylander Chronicles were epic. Actually saga seems like a better term for a Norseman.

 

[MyBudJT]

I know being the grammar police is a tired meme at this point and please don't take this the wrong way plus I'm sure I'll be exposed by a typo in the next 24 hours but that may well be the most poorly constructed sentence in history.

Says the person that wrote a run-on sentance... haha

It took less than 5 minutes, let alone 24 hours!

 

[MyBudJT]

Cereal? The Nylander Chronicles were epic. Actually saga seems like a better term for a Norseman.

The Nylander Contract threads started on July 13th last year... Its July 15, and we're already on thread 16. We didn't get to thread 15 until mid-October.

The Marner bashing has been much worse than the Nylander bashing was.

 

[Havoc]

Why did JVR not suffer when Marner was taken off his line next year? He was on pace for a 35/60 season again with low minutes in Philly this year again too.

I'm sure Marner helped JVR score some more, but this isn't a Thornton/Cheechoo relationship. The impact he had is barely worth discussing in the scope of contract talks.

Just to add to this, JVR was on pace for 40+ in those games Marner got moved to Kadri's line in 17 / 18. His points per minute in 17 / 18 stayed pretty similar to his 16 / 17 stats even with a good 30+ games without Marner.

JVR's stats are meaningless when it comes to Marner. That's not a knock on Marner. He obviously compliments his line mates and helps them be the best versions of themselves. However, JVR was a valuable asset for us in the goal scoring department with or without Marner.

All these stats suggest is Tyler Bozak became massively underrated around here lol. He's the one true constant in all of JVR's best performances.

 

[Kiwi]

You missed spelled Marner.

Marner
Tavares
Rielly
Mathews
Anderson.

Mathews just edged out Rielly in points last year and was 21 points behind Marner who lead the team in scoring.

Until Mathews plays like our best player he is not. Funny how that works that way.

What I find funny is how Matthews was injured for as long as he was last season and still made Marner his ***** in regular and post season goal scoring

Without Tavares

Matthews, Tavares and Rielly are our best and most important players, you know our 2 1C and 1D

I wonder if the boards on Colorado, Calgary etc are this whiney over their RFAs not being signed. I don't recall the Nylander saga being this brutal. It's still July, right?

People had enough of this crap with Nylander and once Ferris started his usual negotiating tactics people were going to start reacting this way

I'm over it at this point, I couldn't care less if Marner's with the team or not

I support the team, he's just another player and I'm past pretending otherwise

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

The Nylander Contract threads started on July 13th last year... Its July 15, and we're already on thread 16. We didn't get to thread 15 until mid-October.

The Marner bashing has been much worse than the Nylander bashing was.

I don't see too many people bashing him. His agent made the decision to compare him to Matthews. Analysis was inevitable as a result. Personally, I think Marner is awesome and needs to be paid. I just happen to think Matthews is more valuable.

 

[diceman934]

What I find funny is how Matthews was injured for as long as he was last season and still made Marner his ***** in regular and post season goal scoring

Without Tavares

Matthews, Tavares and Rielly are our best and most important players, you know our 2 1C and 1D



People had enough of this crap with Nylander and once Ferris started his usual negotiating tactics people were going to start reacting this way

I'm over it at this point, I couldn't care less if Marner's with the team or not

I support the team, he's just another player and I'm past pretending otherwise

Made him his bitch. Funny way of showing it. Less points, less points per game this is for the last 18 months. Now go ahead and come back with a fact that you can debate.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Made him his *****. Funny way of showing it. Less points, less points per game this is for the last 18 months. Now go ahead and come back with a fact that you can debate.

He literally said in goal scoring. Why are you countering that claim with points?

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Marner is two things:

1. Undeniably talented.
2. Undeniably greedy.

So much to dislike about the current state of affairs.

 

[Kiwi]

Made him his *****. Funny way of showing it. Less points, less points per game this is for the last 18 months. Now go ahead and come back with a fact that you can debate.

Significantly better goals a game and goal totals even though Matthews has lost large amounts of games through injuries in that time frame

Made him his *****, and he's a center and guys get paid for goalscoring generally

Yeah, if he thinks he's worth Matthews contract (Matthews isn't either imo) he's going to be sitting for a long time because you'd need to be high or a fan boy to give him that

 

[Hockey Crazy]

Marner may get a few hundred thousand more but he might need to buy everyone free jerseys rather than a number change in the end as a PR move after this negotiation...

 

[thewave]

The problem with Marner is that he is a fake franchise player. I mean, if we really had 3 franchise forwards on this team, there is no way we lost to Boston. It's silly. Sure Marner got some points in the series but for the most part they had him contained, lets face it. Fake franchise winger that is not worth 10 11 12 13 14m He is absolutely worth Aho money

 

[Legion34]

Havlat signed 1 year on the first cap year (his first RFA deal) and he was still an rfa when he re-signed for 3 more years

He wasn’t coming off 3 years in a cap era. The cap came in during his 5th nhl season. Not really a comparable.

The rest on your list were massive goal scorers. Goals get more

 

[Legion34]

I wonder if the boards on Colorado, Calgary etc are this whiney over their RFAs not being signed. I don't recall the Nylander saga being this brutal. It's still July, right?

The backlash is entirely dependent on Marners camps actions.

For all his faults as a player with his own contracts.... nylanders people kept their mouths shut and didn’t pay off dredger


He is the only player who’s camp is acting like this. He deserves the backlash. I hope it’s a learning experience