Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XIII

[81Leafs50]

According to Capgeek at least that "consecutive" might not be correct.

It seems Leafs do qualify to give an OS that requires 4 X 1sts, but are actually disqualified from all the lower categories that require 2 X 1sts or less.

If you put in $11 mil and 5+ more years as variables it shows the results.

Offer Sheet Calculator
Link: Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

CBA QO rules:
What are the details for the club making the offer sheet?

To submit an Offer Sheet, the following conditions must be met:

1. The submitting club must have all of the required draft picks available prior to submission
2. All of the draft picks required as compensation must be the club's own draft picks (draft picks acquired from a different team in a trade cannot be used)
3. The draft picks must available in the nearest entry draft, unless the compensation requires two or more draft picks in the same round: an extra year can be used to for compensation for these picks (if two 1st round picks are required, the club must have two 1st round picks available in the next three drafts)
4. If an Offer Sheet is proposed in which multiple draft picks from the same round are required as compensation, the additional draft picks are sourced from the immediately succeeding drafts in which the draft picks are available
5. A club is permitted to present multiple Offer Sheets, so long as the club has all of the picks required to satisfy each Offer Sheet.

NOTE: Clubs who do not have all of their own picks cannot substitute those picks with picks they have obtained from other clubs. However, clubs can reacquire their own picks in order to meet the requirements, but they must do so prior to submission

PS. In order for the Leafs to make an OS for 4 X 1sts comp they would have to give up their lottery protected 2020 one in the process regardless if Canes do not get it next year.

thats 2 1sts in 3 years.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Ah, but prisoners aren't necessarily in prison because they've committed a crime. They're in prison because society determined that some other person (or persons) gets the power to decide that they be sent there.

For example, there are thousands of scholars imprisoned in Turkey right now for the crime of teaching something that Erdogan didn't feel should be taught.

and Turkey is a semi islamist (moving towards) theological governance...apples and oranges...we have laws set through english common law etc... if they break them they go to jail (or whatever the deemed punishment is)

 

[Nineteen67]

Relax dude, it's a preference thing...Matthews and Marner are a razor thin difference in terms of production (add in expected points during Matthews missed time) but there are things the NHL values and whether we agree or not thats what it is
1)Draft Ranking <Matthews
2)Position< Matthews
3)Goals Goals Goals< Matthews
4)Points< Marner
5) Advanced stats< Marner
6) can they be used on special teams< Marner ekes it out because of PK
7) Do they take faceoffs? <Matthews
8)Marketability <Matthews (Canada and USA) Marner(Toronto)
These are values that whether we like it or not are tossed into every decision made...and Matthews ekes out slightly ahead of Marner when you're looking at these...10.5x6-7 is more than fair for MM and should not leave him feeling "disappointed" if he "demands" more then he can take his snotty demands and wait on the OS and when it doesn't come he can find his way out of town, the Leafs aren't a Marner only team these days...it'll suck but we will survive with a few less highlight reel plays to watch

(P.S I adore Marner and I really don't want him to leave but we have to look at reality here and not get stuck on favourites)

I don’t think Marner is getting the Apple ad that played all playoffs without Matthews.

 

[Morbo]

CBA

Nice try.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

I think the correct answer was to to trade Nylander to sign Marner.

I hear you lol

 

[mallory67]

NO to Gardiner and Ferland. Leafs have Reilly, Muzzin, and Dermott on the left side with many Marlies ready to step in if injuries occur.

I honestly cannot stand another season of people crying all over social media about Gardiner and how he plays.

Leafs have enough forwards. Ferland is nothing but a bottom 6 players. that money can be better spent.

Take Marners money and offer sheet a team. WPG for Connor or Laine. They cannot handle it. if they match then that offer sheet sets the price of the other and they cannot afford both.

Great post ... accept for the Laine part. Kill that idea .... kill it with fire.

Laine was -24 on a solidly plus team (+28). He is a black hole.
Take away PP goals/points and the black hole gets darker.
He is a massive drag 5v5 and the Jets are probably hoping for an offer sheet.

 

[Braun]

I hear you lol

I wonder if instead of trading Kadri he could’ve done a similar trade and sign with Nylander for a similar result. I’m a Habs fan but I can feel how shit it would be to lose a key player like Marner.

 

[Sypher04]

Marner is better. The takes here are a joke. Guaranteed that when the two enter free agency, Marner will be paid more and he knows it. If Dubas wants to stay a gm for the leafs, he better get on the program of treating the kid with respect. If Marner is walked or decides to walk in 4 years, Dubas will be seen as the guy who lost a superstar. The future will show that. He wont work in the league in this capacity again.

As I've said before I firmly believe you can make solid arguments either which way in terms of who is better, but as long as centers and goalscoring are valued above wingers and playmaking in the marketplace Marner won't make as much or more than Matthews. You may ultimately be proven correct though on money, as contracts like Panarins at least show there could be a shift coming in that thinking.

 

[81Leafs50]

Nice try.

I hate it when people are too lazy to read or do real work. So they call others liers because of their ignorance.

Offer Sheet Calculator
Link: Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

CBA QO rules:
What are the details for the club making the offer sheet?

To submit an Offer Sheet, the following conditions must be met:

1. The submitting club must have all of the required draft picks available prior to submission
2. All of the draft picks required as compensation must be the club's own draft picks (draft picks acquired from a different team in a trade cannot be used)
3. The draft picks must available in the nearest entry draft, unless the compensation requires two or more draft picks in the same round: an extra year can be used to for compensation for these picks (if two 1st round picks are required, the club must have two 1st round picks available in the next three drafts)
4. If an Offer Sheet is proposed in which multiple draft picks from the same round are required as compensation, the additional draft picks are sourced from the immediately succeeding drafts in which the draft picks are available
5. A club is permitted to present multiple Offer Sheets, so long as the club has all of the picks required to satisfy each Offer Sheet.

NOTE: Clubs who do not have all of their own picks cannot substitute those picks with picks they have obtained from other clubs. However, clubs can reacquire their own picks in order to meet the requirements, but they must do so prior to submission

 

[ShaneFalco]

I wonder if instead of trading Kadri he could’ve done a similar trade and sign with Nylander for a similar result. I’m a Habs fan but I can feel how **** it would be to lose a key player like Marner.

If a GM wants to overpay for Mitch, so be it
Their demands are beyond silly at this point
Want to be the third to sign, well that doesn't mean you can get the same deal (term)
Kadri - was a sell-high move, something the leafs haven't done enough of over the years

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

If he actually thought that way, I'd want him off the team. I'll just do the minimum, he doesn't think like that or he wouldn't be the player he is....and NO he wasn't better in his own end two years ago, that's just convenient. He's become more responsible every year, if it continues next year (which it will because he's not saying screw it this summer, he's trying to improve) then he will become a reliable 200 ft player.

Hmmm....I don't have the stats handy...but wasn't he on for quite a few more goals against last year? Also, I thought most of his metrics pertaining to defense were lower as well in 18/19....You have your opinion on his play...I have mine...it's all good.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

If a GM wants to overpay for Mitch, so be it
Their demands are beyond silly at this point
Want to be the third to sign, well that doesn't mean you can get the same deal (term)
Kadri - was a sell-high move, something the leafs haven't done enough of over the years

Kadri was sell high?

He went from back to back 30 goal seasons to 16 goals. He got suspended two playoffs in a row.

That wasn't a "sell-high move" in the slightest.

 

[bobber]

It's a sign of the times in sports. Players putting up top stats are offered millions more grab the cash. Marner knows how skilled he is one the ice. Everyone can see that fact. The kid has a very high hockey IQ. One of the highest in the NHL presently. The Leafs know what they have and will pay him. He is not going anywhere.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

I wonder if instead of trading Kadri he could’ve done a similar trade and sign with Nylander for a similar result. I’m a Habs fan but I can feel how **** it would be to lose a key player like Marner.

Imagine potentially losing Kotkaniemi lol to put it im comparable terms

 

[ShaneFalco]

Kadri was sell high?

He went from back to back 30 goal seasons to 16 goals. He got suspended two playoffs in a row.

That wasn't a "sell-high move" in the slightest.

Ok sell high wasn't the correct term - how about we didn't wait until he had little value in the twilight of his career before moving him.

 

[Gallagbi]

I hate it when people are too lazy to read or do real work. So they call others liers because of their ignorance.

Offer Sheet Calculator
Link: Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

CBA QO rules:
What are the details for the club making the offer sheet?

To submit an Offer Sheet, the following conditions must be met:

1. The submitting club must have all of the required draft picks available prior to submission
2. All of the draft picks required as compensation must be the club's own draft picks (draft picks acquired from a different team in a trade cannot be used)
3. The draft picks must available in the nearest entry draft, unless the compensation requires two or more draft picks in the same round: an extra year can be used to for compensation for these picks (if two 1st round picks are required, the club must have two 1st round picks available in the next three drafts)
4. If an Offer Sheet is proposed in which multiple draft picks from the same round are required as compensation, the additional draft picks are sourced from the immediately succeeding drafts in which the draft picks are available
5. A club is permitted to present multiple Offer Sheets, so long as the club has all of the picks required to satisfy each Offer Sheet.

NOTE: Clubs who do not have all of their own picks cannot substitute those picks with picks they have obtained from other clubs. However, clubs can reacquire their own picks in order to meet the requirements, but they must do so prior to submission

Sounds like his issue was "consecutive" which that post doesn't cover

My understanding is they don't need to be consecutive, but they do need to come from 4 of the next 5 drafts and it isn't a team choice, it defaults to the nearest picks at time of signing.

In a practical sense, they'd be consecutive because teams rarely trades picks 2-3 years out.

 

[Sypher04]

Marner is most definitely the flashier of the two players. He displays his effort more overtly than Matthews does but I don't question it's there for both. I think any debate of which is better than which starts with your preference for how they play the game or how you value what they each excel at more often than not. They both have valid claims as far as I'm concerned, but in the market, rightly or wrongly, goals/center make you more money. We know this to be the case for a long time.

 

[Sypher04]

Hmmm....I don't have the stats handy...but wasn't he on for quite a few more goals against last year? Also, I thought most of his metrics pertaining to defense were lower as well in 18/19....You have your opinion on his play...I have mine...it's all good.

Matthews 200 ft game is actually very sound. The problem this year in my estimation was line construction. And before someone accuses me of making excuses, it's not that, but when a line is illformed it should be noted. Johnson and Kapanen were constantly blowing the zone for offensive chances leaving Matthews without much help. I didn't like that line offensively or defensively at really any point last season and it wouldn't be fair to put the failings of his unit entirely on him. Especially when often times Matthews was precisely where he should be

 

[Morbo]

I hate it when people are too lazy to read or do real work. So they call others liers because of their ignorance.

Offer Sheet Calculator
Link: Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

CBA QO rules:
What are the details for the club making the offer sheet?

To submit an Offer Sheet, the following conditions must be met:

1. The submitting club must have all of the required draft picks available prior to submission
2. All of the draft picks required as compensation must be the club's own draft picks (draft picks acquired from a different team in a trade cannot be used)
3. The draft picks must available in the nearest entry draft, unless the compensation requires two or more draft picks in the same round: an extra year can be used to for compensation for these picks (if two 1st round picks are required, the club must have two 1st round picks available in the next three drafts)
4. If an Offer Sheet is proposed in which multiple draft picks from the same round are required as compensation, the additional draft picks are sourced from the immediately succeeding drafts in which the draft picks are available
5. A club is permitted to present multiple Offer Sheets, so long as the club has all of the picks required to satisfy each Offer Sheet.

NOTE: Clubs who do not have all of their own picks cannot substitute those picks with picks they have obtained from other clubs. However, clubs can reacquire their own picks in order to meet the requirements, but they must do so prior to submission

First of all, I never called anybody a "lier".

calm down.

secondly, once you're calm perhaps you should read the passage you bolded again.

 

[Gallagbi]

Matthews 200 ft game is actually very sound. The problem this year in my estimation was line construction. And before someone accuses me of making excuses, it's not that, but when a line is illformed it should be noted. Johnson and Kapanen were constantly blowing the zone for offensive chances leaving Matthews without much help. I didn't like that line offensively or defensively at really any point last season and it wouldn't be fair to put the failings of his unit entirely on him. Especially when often times Matthews was precisely where he should be

Matthews was really lazy defensively this year, regularly missing assignments and losing positioning.

That's not on his linemates or the D, that's on him. He has the tools to be sound defensively, but it seemed like the checked out this year.

 

[Sypher04]

Matthews was really lazy defensively this year, regularly missing assignments and losing positioning.

That's not on his linemates or the D, that's on him. He has the tools to be sound defensively, but it seemed like the checked out this year.

No he wasn't, but that's a fine narrative you're crafting there.

Everyone loses positioning sometimes. To claim it was happening at any kind of high rate or that he was "really lazy defensively" is pure spin.

His line was not working. He has a role in that but it's the biggest reason for the defensive issues. Maybe it was lack of communication.

 

[Nineteen67]

I hate it when people are too lazy to read or do real work. So they call others liers because of their ignorance.

Offer Sheet Calculator
Link: Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

CBA QO rules:
What are the details for the club making the offer sheet?

To submit an Offer Sheet, the following conditions must be met:

1. The submitting club must have all of the required draft picks available prior to submission
2. All of the draft picks required as compensation must be the club's own draft picks (draft picks acquired from a different team in a trade cannot be used)
3. The draft picks must available in the nearest entry draft, unless the compensation requires two or more draft picks in the same round: an extra year can be used to for compensation for these picks (if two 1st round picks are required, the club must have two 1st round picks available in the next three drafts)
4. If an Offer Sheet is proposed in which multiple draft picks from the same round are required as compensation, the additional draft picks are sourced from the immediately succeeding drafts in which the draft picks are available
5. A club is permitted to present multiple Offer Sheets, so long as the club has all of the picks required to satisfy each Offer Sheet.

NOTE: Clubs who do not have all of their own picks cannot substitute those picks with picks they have obtained from other clubs. However, clubs can reacquire their own picks in order to meet the requirements, but they must do so prior to submission

I’m a little daft.

Which satisfy the compensation requirement

Yrs 1,3,4,5
Yrs 1,2,3,4
Yrs 2,3,4,5
All of the above

 

[Stephen]

Ok sell high wasn't the correct term - how about we didn't wait until he had little value in the twilight of his career before moving him.

Questionable if he would regain that 30 goal value in Toronto.

 

[ShaneFalco]

No he wasn't, but that's a fine narrative you're crafting there.

Everyone loses positioning sometimes. To claim it was happening at any kind of high rate or that he was "really lazy defensively" is asinine.

His line was not working. He has a role in that but it's the biggest reason for the defensive issues. Maybe it was lack of communication.

I think some guys make it look effortless while others look like they're going full out 24/7
Lemieux was one of those guys (and no I'm not comparing them)

 

[Stephen]

Matthews was really lazy defensively this year, regularly missing assignments and losing positioning.

That's not on his linemates or the D, that's on him. He has the tools to be sound defensively, but it seemed like the checked out this year.

Agreed. That aspect of his game needs to be cleaned up.