Salary Cap: Marner contract discussion XIII

[TheProspector]

It's July 6th. There's supposedly been an offer sheet imminent in at least 4 of the past 6 days. Where's the offer sheet?

 

[Sypher04]

I think some guys make it look effortless while others look like they're going full out 24/7
Lemieux was one of those guys (and no I'm not comparing them)

I agree. People see Marner and think because it looks different with Matthews that the effort isn't there. The reality is effort doesn't look the same with each player. I think calling Matthews effort into question is utterly ridiculous

 

[desperateblue]

Does anyone think Marner is twice as good as Willy pasta or or any of the other 20 guys making under 9?

The egos of these new age players blows my mind.
I 100% don’t even want Marner back
Give me the 4 1st round picks and cap room

 

[Notsince67]

Is it not totally obvious that the team and the rest of the GMs in the league don't agree ?

Says who? The best coaches use stats but not at the expense mechanical executions that fit a system.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Matthews 200 ft game is actually very sound. The problem this year in my estimation was line construction. And before someone accuses me of making excuses, it's not that, but when a line is illformed it should be noted. Johnson and Kapanen were constantly blowing the zone for offensive chances leaving Matthews without much help. I didn't like that line offensively or defensively at really any point last season and it wouldn't be fair to put the failings of his unit entirely on him. Especially when often times Matthews was precisely where he should be

I could buy that as a partial reason. I still think in my eyes he didn't have the same intensity in the D-zone that he did his previous 2 seasons. Could be from not knowing where to cover since Jonny is pretty bad at defending and it threw him off. I dunno...but I hope it was a 1yr blip and it gets rectified this year. Oh...I still think AM hates playing for Babs...

 

[Michoulicious]

Why would 10.5x5 be “decent” when a player with similar elc stats just signed 8.5x5?

If someone gave Panarin 11.6 x 7 as a UFA, I'm pretty sure one of the 30 other GMs will be willing to give 10,5 x 5 to Marner and pony up the compensation.

Real question is if Marner will have the balls to sign the OS and then deal with Toronto media circus that will ensue if Dubas matches. That's the key.

 

[LastOne2100]

I think it's pretty simple. If he gets an offer sheet for more than 10.5, take the 4 firsts and laugh. Any less, and sign him.

11.5+ is absolutely insane considering what Panarin got as a UFA for 7 years.

 

[Mess]

I’m a little daft.

Which satisfy the compensation requirement

Yrs 1,3,4,5
Yrs 1,2,3,4
Yrs 2,3,4,5
All of the above

I guess the easiest way to look at is if Leafs are making an OS to another player if Leafs lose Marner to an OS themselves, is that for the next 5 years all the Leafs picks will be gone to Carolina & the non matching team.

That means Leafs would need to include their own lottery protected 2020 1st round pick in any OS requiring 4 X 1sts.

 

[ULF_55]

It's July 6th. There's supposedly been an offer sheet imminent in at least 4 of the past 6 days. Where's the offer sheet?

Perhaps there already are offersheets presented, but Marner has to sign one.

You'd think it would have to be over 12 for Marner to consider signing in certain locations due to the endorsement possibilities.

Certainly, if you're McDavid, Crosby you don't need to be in a major market, but they've won stuff.

 

[ZEBROA]

why is Matthews vs Marner even a question ? Hit the road Marner if u think that. A healthy Matthews wins over Marner every time. Marner is the most overrated player right now. 10 Max and thats for the Marnvares chemestry. Not Marner alone. Get it done, i want to see the two firstlines together this season all season long. Both Marnvares and Mattlanders to find their groove.

 

[Notsince67]

As I've said before I firmly believe you can make solid arguments either which way in terms of who is better, but as long as centers and goalscoring are valued above wingers and playmaking in the marketplace Marner won't make as much or more than Matthews. You may ultimately be proven correct though on money, as contracts like Panarins at least show there could be a shift coming in that thinking.

I believe the issue here is one of correlation vs causation. Most of the best forwards are centers. Look at the draft and see who gets selected first. The forwards that maintain high outputs end up being quite valuable. Panarin is excellent as is Laine...who really only suffers from consistency issues. Playmaking forwards are a bit of a unicorn. Forwards are usually fantastic shots who pot goals. Centers usually drive a line. Imo, Matthews would be a better forward than a center. I am not dimishing him at all for saying so. His shot is awsome.

 

[ULF_55]

Does anyone think Marner is twice as good as Willy pasta or or any of the other 20 guys making under 9?

The egos of these new age players blows my mind.
I 100% don’t even want Marner back
Give me the 4 1st round picks and cap room

Personally, I hope a team calls Dubas (like Burke dealt with Boston) and says we're making an offer on Marner do you wan to talk?

 

[crump]

It's July 6th. There's supposedly been an offer sheet imminent in at least 4 of the past 6 days. Where's the offer sheet?

He’s just collecting them all to see which one is best

 

[Nineteen67]

I guess the easiest way to look at is if Leafs are making an OS to another player if Leafs lose Marner to an OS themselves, is that for the next 5 years all the Leafs picks will be gone to Carolina & the non matching team.

That means Leafs would need to include their own lottery protected 2020 1st round pick in any OS requiring 4 X 1sts.

The Leafs qualify but can another team use Yrs 1,3,4,5 and still qualify?

 

[crump]

Just some hindsight on offer sheets. Washington got the Blues 5 1st rounders from Blues for Scott Stevens’ offer sheet.

And the only two NHLers taken with those 5 picks that St. Louis gave up were Brendan Witt and Sergei Gonchar.

 

[Erndog]

This is exhausting....

 

[Sypher04]

I believe the issue here is one of correlation vs causation. Most of the best forwards are centers. Look at the draft and see who gets selected first. The forwards that maintain high outputs end up being quite valuable. Panarin is excellent as is Laine...who really only suffers from consistency issues. Playmaking forwards are a bit of a unicorn. Forwards are usually fantastic shots who pot goals. Centers usually drive a line. Imo, Matthews would be a better forward than a center. I am not dimishing him at all for saying so. His shot is awsome.

Matthews plays center in a very non-traditional sense which is I think why it's critically important that he plays with a playmaking winger like Willy (or Mitch if he wasn't with Tavares) to maximize his abilities. I still believe he drives the play from the center, but he does it with shooting first which is rare, and also a really bad fit for what he had on his wings last year (Marleau, Kapanen, Johnsson - all shooters). That's not to say Auston can't playmake. He's set up some unbeliablr goals, but it'll never be the focal point of his game. Even then I expect his playmaking will keep improving.

I think given his skillset he'd make a very good winger, but provided he's appropriately surrounded (with a playmaking winger as mentioned) I think he's better and more valuable in the middle of the ice. He's very smart, very good with his stick, good defensively, solid already on draws, and has size to match against other big centres

 

[Contenderorpretender]

Just some hindsight on offer sheets. Washington got the Blues 5 1st rounders from Blues for Scott Stevens’ offer sheet.

And the only two NHLers taken with those 5 picks that St. Louis gave up were Brendan Witt and Sergei Gonchar.

Scouting has gotten better.

 

[Sypher04]

This is exhausting....

Agreed

 

[gabeliscious]

Personally, I hope a team calls Dubas (like Burke dealt with Boston) and says we're making an offer on Marner do you wan to talk?

i have a hard time seeing that play out. At the root of this is marner looking for a contract in the matthews range (supposedly). A team would need to on the low end be prepared to overpay marner in salary and part with 4 x first round picks. if they wanted to make a trade, they would need to still be willing to overpay on salary since marner is unsigned and then give up tangible players that will likely be more valuable then a first round pick. that would make a team less competitive even with bringing in marner since it would gut the supporting cast and mess up the cap structure.

as an example, lets say lou called up dubas and said he was thinking about offer sheet marner, would dubas prefer to trade him instead of going the offer sheet route,

marner to resign is likely going to cost of $10 million/year so with barzal needed to get extended next season he will be looking for even more since he puts up similar level points + plays the premium position.

options instead of 1st round picks could be something like dobson, bellows and bailey. In a trade situation, i cannot see dubas taking much less then that.

 

[ZEBROA]

Maybe it was lack of communication.

Finns often understands Swedish , Swedes can only curse in finnish, Swedish and Finnish for an American... so you might be on something there

 

[Jmo89]

I wonder if Paul and Ferris are upset that CP24 hasn't sent out a helicopter to follow Mitch.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Says who? The best coaches use stats but not at the expense mechanical executions that fit a system.

I'm just suggesting that based on Reports that Leafs aren't offering close to that and either are any other teams (so far).

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Does anyone think Marner is twice as good as Willy pasta or or any of the other 20 guys making under 9?

The egos of these new age players blows my mind.
I 100% don’t even want Marner back
Give me the 4 1st round picks and cap room

I want Marner back at a reasonable cap hit but everything else is spot on. It’s a real turnoff with these younger players demanding the moon while having done nothing of real substance their whole three years in the league.

 

[ORRFForever]

Didn't know that. Thanks.

Do you ever sleep?