Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Less than 2 weeks to camp

[PromisedLand]

If he agrees to 6 it has to be close to Matthews’ 11.6.

Just keep negotiating and then hope marner signs for 10.5ish for 6 years. term of 6 years is key! Matthews should have been for 6 years as well so that matthews and marner could both be up for new contracts right with 11 AAV of Tavares is off the books but that DUMBASS dubas didn't plan anything

 

[ULF_55]

Just keep negotiating and then hope marner signs for 10.5ish for 6 years. term of 6 years is key! Matthews should have been for 6 years as well so that matthews and marner could both be up for new contracts right with 11 AAV of Tavares is off the books but that DUMBASS dubas didn't plan anything

Be better if one of them is traded before the next round of contracts need be negotiated.

Or one of them grows up and doesn't need their parents involved.

 

[PromisedLand]

Be better if one of them is traded before the next round of contracts need be negotiated.

Or one of them grows up and doesn't need their parents involved.

Paul Marner stuff is blown out of proportion for no reason. They are both important to this team and Dubas screwed it up by not planning properly or having even an ounce of foresight.

If "parenting" is an issue then may be Michael Nylander should have cut the umbilical cord before december 1st; and posters here should not have tried to justify a 27 pt season like the second coming of gretzky

 

[ORRFForever]

He didn't, it just turned out that way.

Dubas said otherwise. I'd find the quote but I'm off for a swim.

 

[Nineteen67]

Just keep negotiating and then hope marner signs for 10.5ish for 6 years. term of 6 years is key! Matthews should have been for 6 years as well so that matthews and marner could both be up for new contracts right with 11 AAV of Tavares is off the books but that DUMBASS dubas didn't plan anything

The dilemma is the CBA expiration- not Dubas or the other GMs of RFAs

To me it makes sense to sign for 4 years with everything up front in signing bonus with at least $11 in year 4.

 

[PromisedLand]

The dilemma is the CBA expiration- not Dubas or the other GMs of RFAs

To me it makes sense to sign for 4 years with everything up front in signing bonus with at least $11 in year 4.

all the new contracts (JT, Nylander, Matthews) are lockout proof. Sure Marner would be looking to do the same; Leafs have the financial muscle to do it and in there lies the negotiating power from Leafs where they could try and get just "one" more year on the contract to get 6 year term

 

[nuck]

Be better if one of them is traded before the next round of contracts need be negotiated.

Or one of them grows up and doesn't need their parents involved.

Clubs never want to trade their high end guys as long as there is any kind of a window. Sometimes it works like with the Pens, or almost works like with the Sharks, but more often it doesn't like with the later Hawks or the Wings with an aging Lidstrom or Canucks when the Sedins got old. It is a different era now it seems, and the next wave of young guns may not be Marner and Matthews level, but they are still going to want to get paid.

With Matthews at 5 and Mitch at 3 or 6, I would probably trade one of them in a few years unless the Leafs are actually coming off a Cup win. Unless the new CBA gives some kind of relief on contract limits or these two settle in as 6-10 scorers and not top 5. Both negotiate as though this season is just a stepping stone, but the next deal their level will be established. It would be nice to replace one with a more team friendly deal and actually spend to the cap to make the club more competitive, and not just cater to desires of the top guys. Mitch or AM makes the team stronger but selling them off with term, left is obviously going to bring something special back. It will be the same grind with them when the next deal is coming, with more skipping training camp.

 

[ULF_55]

Clubs never want to trade their high end guys as long as there is any kind of a window. Sometimes it works like with the Pens, or almost works like with the Sharks, but more often it doesn't like with the later Hawks or the Wings with an aging Lidstrom or Canucks when the Sedins got old. It is a different era now it seems, and the next wave of young guns may not be Marner and Matthews level, but they are still going to want to get paid.

With Matthews at 5 and Mitch at 3 or 6, I would probably trade one of them in a few years unless the Leafs are actually coming off a Cup win. Unless the new CBA gives some kind of relief on contract limits or these two settle in as 6-10 scorers and not top 5. Both negotiate as though this season is just a stepping stone, but the next deal their level will be established. It would be nice to replace one with a more team friendly deal and actually spend to the cap to make the club more competitive, and not just cater to desires of the top guys. Mitch or AM makes the team stronger but selling them off with term, left is obviously going to bring something special back. It will be the same grind with them when the next deal is coming, with more entitled little pricks skipping training camp.

Leafs have to hope the cap increases quite a bit.

Add Rielly's 11+ contract and $50mm for 5 players is going to be tough.

 

[ULF_55]

Paul Marner stuff is blown out of proportion for no reason. They are both important to this team and Dubas screwed it up by not planning properly or having even an ounce of foresight.

If "parenting" is an issue then may be Michael Nylander should have cut the umbilical cord before december 1st; and posters here should not have tried to justify a 27 pt season like the second coming of gretzky

Yes, Nylander .5 PPG season was a disappointment to everyone ... well everyone who wanted him to do well.

Not sure all 3 of marner, Matthews and Tavares are necessary.

Being high scoring doesn't mean winning.

 

[PromisedLand]

Yes, Nylander .5 PPG season was a disappointment to everyone ... well everyone who wanted him to do well.

Not sure all 3 of marner, Matthews and Tavares are necessary.

Being high scoring doesn't mean winning.

I want nylander to do well because that means leafs do well

In terms of who is not needed on the Leafs I would add nylander to the three you mentioned.

It is because of those 3 leafs made the playoffs last season; nylander contribution was not the main reason

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Leafs have to hope the cap increases quite a bit.

Add Rielly's 11+ contract and $50mm for 5 players is going to be tough.

The problem I see with the cap increasing is that we never get a break....we will never get the benefit of the cap going up AFTER we signed someone to a deal that seems fair to us and we get a deal on the latter half of it..especially if they are always short term deals. So if they are always asking for $$ as a % of the cap and taking short deals...there really is no savings..EVER... What is the big deal if the cap goes to $100M and mitch wants the same 14% of the cap? we are paying 14M just a few short years after over paying him in 2019.

The agents have messed with the whole thing by allowing stupid GM's to use the % of the cap formula. That always insulates players and gives ZERO benefit to the teams. Some GM has to have the stones to say no, as well as a few of these RFA's that are betting on themselves to fall flat on their face in those shorter term deals.

 

[Nineteen67]

all the new contracts (JT, Nylander, Matthews) are lockout proof. Sure Marner would be looking to do the same; Leafs have the financial muscle to do it and in there lies the negotiating power from Leafs where they could try and get just "one" more year on the contract to get 6 year term

I wouldn’t be worried about a lockout. With 40 million earned i d gamble on maximizing the new CBA landscape

 

[HolyCrap]

The Leafs are the last team that wants to get rid of the salary cap.
They win Cups at the same rate they did pre salary cap, but they really like the guaranteed salary expenditures.

Yeah I didn’t say anything about squashing salary cap. I was talking about the tax benefits in some markets. There needs to be some tweaking if they wanna keep things fair. I also don’t like how some teams need bigger teams revenue. If the teams can’t support itself after say 10 to 15 years it’s on them.

 

[HolyCrap]

Canadians are far to often push overs in business, its very alarming. Most have known about this since Gary Gimmick started to convert to a wealth redistribution model. The corruption has now spread to officiating for gambling and the league looks like its integrity is already in question.

I agree.

 

[93WrapAround]

Serious question: Is it too risky to get a Marner jersey right now? My birthday is next Friday and my girl is going to get me a Leafs jersey as per my request and if Marner were signed I'd likely get his jersey. Matthews wouldn't be a big disappointment or anything but Marner's style of play is more in line with how I played growing up so ideally I'd go with Marner. Any thoughts? Could this really end up with Marner never dawning the blue and white again? (I know it's possible but how probable..)

 

[Fogelhund]

Agreed!

Matthews now has the 3rd highest cap hit in the league (2nd highest among RFA contracts after McDavid) he has to be in the top 3 players in scoring while not be sporting a GF% <50 otherwise that contract would be overpaid.

Nylander gets paid more than Pastrnak; Nylander is to match Pastrnak's production or hover around 70 pts at least; otherwise he would be overpaid. One out of the 6 seasons nylander signed for is already in the trash bin with medicore performance - 60 pts ain't gonna cut it. Nylander has to be around 65+ pts player to justify that contract for the next 5 years (if he still with the Leafs).

First, Pastrnak and Nylander's effective Cap hits are basically the same. Nylander is 8.75 on the $6.9 mil. Pastranak is 8.89%. Cap hit percentage is more important than dollars.

Second, Nylander had a bad year... and bad luck. Had his shooting percentage been career average, he would have actually paced for close to his career average.

Third, Nylander doesn't need to match Pastrnak's performance to justify his contract. Pastrnak has significantly outperformed his contract. You'd want to compare Nylander to all players who have similar cap hit percentages...not just one guy, who is a bit of a statistical outlier. I mean, Gretzky's last contract was an average of $4.3 million, and we just had Kadri, who was paid around the same.... how could you pay Kadri the same as Gretzky?

Matthews is the biggest question mark on this team. His health has affected his performance. When healthy, and early on in the year, he's been a guy who it's hard to argue isn't one of the top players in the league. At game 21, he was 1.57 PPG last year. 128 point "pace". which would have tied him for the league lead. It appeared as though his shoulder issues slowed him down, more and more as the season went, ultimately requiring surgery. It has been surmised, that he grew up playing in a system that didn't have the same level of physicality, and hits that the CHL, or even Europe might have. I don't know if that's true, but he has been hurt in the same way, a couple of times, and that Trouba hit wasn't much. The Matthews story is going to be one of durability. If he can't find a way to be durable, and not slowed down by injury woes, he will be a player who will earn his contract. If the injuries cause more time off, and also mean a reduced production, he'll be an issue. My personal opinion on the contract, was that they gave him 8 year money, on a 5 year deal... not a gross overpayment, but still too much. I know it's blasphemy to suggest such a thing, but if he has another injury riddled season, I might actually consider seeing what he could be traded for.

 

[Kiwi]

This is true. Whoever said Marner has no leverage is sleeping on this

That works both ways, we are effectively bidding against ourselves and if we hold the line Marner has very limited options, that's a strong position for the team to be in as well

 

[Notsince67]

That works both ways, we are effectively bidding against ourselves and if we hold the line Marner has very limited options, that's a strong position for the team to be in as well

True again. That is why we call it a negotiation.

 

[frizzer1]

If Marner has already agreed to a deal where he would sign when the season starts and the ltir’s kick in, do they have to wait until then to announce it?

 

[biotk]

It appeared as though his shoulder issues slowed him down, more and more as the season went, ultimately requiring surgery.

Matthews did not require surgery. He had pins removed from his leg after the season with the intention that would end the back pain he has been experiencing for the last year and a half.

that Trouba hit wasn't much.

That Trouba hit was much. Almost every other player would have been knocked over and into the boards which would have dissipated the energy. Matthews didn't move. All of the energy went into his shoulder.

 

[biotk]

If Marner has already agreed to a deal where he would sign when the season starts and the ltir’s kick in, do they have to wait until then to announce it?

No they don't have to wait. And no they wouldn't do that. They can put players on LTIR before the season starts. Having a player sit out camp despite a deal being in place would be beyond Harold Ballard insane. There is no deal right now.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Matthews did not require surgery. He had pins removed from his leg after the season with the intention that would end the back pain he has been experiencing for the last year and a half.



That Trouba hit was much. Almost every other player would have been knocked over and into the boards which would have dissipated the energy. Matthews didn't move. All of the energy went into his shoulder.

It's amazing what kind of things people will come up with. Apparently a 205 pound man charging into you is nothing much. Hockey is so fast and dangerous that it's incredibly easy for anyone to get injured on seemingly innocuous plays that are actually anything but

 

[biotk]

The problem I see with the cap increasing is that we never get a break....we will never get the benefit of the cap going up AFTER we signed someone to a deal that seems fair to us and we get a deal on the latter half of it..especially if they are always short term deals. So if they are always asking for $$ as a % of the cap and taking short deals...there really is no savings..EVER... What is the big deal if the cap goes to $100M and mitch wants the same 14% of the cap? we are paying 14M just a few short years after over paying him in 2019.

The agents have messed with the whole thing by allowing stupid GM's to use the % of the cap formula. That always insulates players and gives ZERO benefit to the teams. Some GM has to have the stones to say no, as well as a few of these RFA's that are betting on themselves to fall flat on their face in those shorter term deals.

I have always thought that a player should negotiate for a share of the cap. Each team has (for example) 100,000 shares and if the cap was, say, 79.5M then each share would be worth $795. If the next year the cap went up to 81.5M then each share would be worth $815.

If a player negotiated a contract for say 10,000 shares x 5 years then his salary would be 7.95M in year 1 (if the cap was 79.5M) and then increase to 8.15M the next year (assuming the cap went up to 81.5M) etc. It wouldn't be known what the player would earn during his contract because it would depend on how much the cap went up.

 

[HappyJoy]

Paul Marner stuff is blown out of proportion for no reason. They are both important to this team and Dubas screwed it up by not planning properly or having even an ounce of foresight.

If "parenting" is an issue then may be Michael Nylander should have cut the umbilical cord before december 1st; and posters here should not have tried to justify a 27 pt season like the second coming of gretzky

Why drag M Nylander into this, did you hear anything from him during Willies negotiations?

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Be better if one of them is traded before the next round of contracts need be negotiated.

Or one of them grows up and doesn't need their parents involved.

It's funny you speak like you have a clue on whats going on behind the scenes. You have no idea who's parents are involved and to what aspect.

Do you feel the same way for:

Boeser
Connor
Laine
Point
Rantanen
Tkachuk
McAvoy
Provorov
Werenski
Zacha

Or is your thinking only reserved for Maple Leaf players?
I always hated Keith, probably his fault Calgary hasn't signed Tkachuk, makes total sense.