Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Less than 2 weeks to camp

[Isaac Nootin]

This is one of the things that drives me nuts about Dubas he can't get contracts done in a reasonable amount of time at least not for his big RFA's he's great at trades I'd say Muzzin was a great move, and the Barrie trade was a steal, if for no other reason than Colorado is retaining 50% of Barrie's salary.

and when it comes to 2nd teer guys like Kapanen and Johnsson they are on great deals.

But when it comes to the big RFA's,, the core pieces Marner and Nylander he drags it out to much.

Contract negotiating for the most part is one area where I do prefer Lou over Dubas, yes I'm sure You're going to point to Zaitsev's contract, and no that's not a great deal but for every Zaitsev there is Andersen, Kadri and Rielly, all of them are on bargain deals, none of them missed time, none of them missed camp.

If Lou negotiated Nylander's deal he's not missing 2 onths and probably doesn't miss camp .

If Lou was negotiating Marner's deal it's probably done now or at least close.

Like I said Dubas is amazing at trading I don't think he's lost a trade yet but he's got to get better at negotiating contracts .

I know i'm going to get asked "well what do you want him to do pay him 10 million per for 3 years or 11 for 5?"

at this point yes because this is a cup year, this isn't 2015, this team can win a championship , I believe if Kadri doesn't get himself suspeded in game 2 they beat Boston and likely go to the finals last year, that's how close I believe they are not one player away 1 PLAY away, so get your 21 year old star winger signed and go win a championship because it's Toronto's year .

How do you suggest he gets this done quicker?

 

[Peasy]

How do you suggest he gets this done quicker?

Ask them nicely to sign the contract that is presented, duh.

 

[kb]

How do you suggest he gets this done quicker?

The only way to get it done quicker is to cave.....so that comment made zero sense on any level.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

Don’t forget the most important stat

The most stick checks in the neutral zone.
One poster actually tried to justify nylander contract

The excuses are now done for nylander and Matthews

Willy has to be a 35 /35 70 point player to justify his contract and Matthews has to stay healthy and be a 55/50 105 point player.

Excuses done

THIS^.

 

[DarkKnight]

Man these other unsigned RFA’s dads....

 

[Marshy]

This is one of the things that drives me nuts about Dubas he can't get contracts done in a reasonable amount of time at least not for his big RFA's he's great at trades I'd say Muzzin was a great move, and the Barrie trade was a steal, if for no other reason than Colorado is retaining 50% of Barrie's salary.

and when it comes to 2nd teer guys like Kapanen and Johnsson they are on great deals.

But when it comes to the big RFA's,, the core pieces Marner and Nylander he drags it out to much.

Contract negotiating for the most part is one area where I do prefer Lou over Dubas, yes I'm sure You're going to point to Zaitsev's contract, and no that's not a great deal but for every Zaitsev there is Andersen, Kadri and Rielly, all of them are on bargain deals, none of them missed time, none of them missed camp.

If Lou negotiated Nylander's deal he's not missing 2 onths and probably doesn't miss camp .

If Lou was negotiating Marner's deal it's probably done now or at least close.

Like I said Dubas is amazing at trading I don't think he's lost a trade yet but he's got to get better at negotiating contracts .

I know i'm going to get asked "well what do you want him to do pay him 10 million per for 3 years or 11 for 5?"

at this point yes because this is a cup year, this isn't 2015, this team can win a championship , I believe if Kadri doesn't get himself suspeded in game 2 they beat Boston and likely go to the finals last year, that's how close I believe they are not one player away 1 PLAY away, so get your 21 year old star winger signed and go win a championship because it's Toronto's year .

I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised with Marner's deal based on what you're willing to give him. Patience. Ferris wants to force Dubas into a panic move. It's not going to work. None of the other big RFAs are budging either. It's a game of chicken right now to see who blinks first.

 

[Nithoniniel]

But when it comes to the big RFA's,, the core pieces Marner and Nylander he drags it out to much.

Nylander, yes. Marner? He's part of a whole group of RFAs that are pushing this to the limit, with nobody outside Matthews and Aho signing. It's quite obvious that is not on Dubas.

If Lou negotiated Nylander's deal he's not missing 2 onths and probably doesn't miss camp .

If Lou was negotiating Marner's deal it's probably done now or at least close.

What do you base this on? Because it sure doesn't seem to be Lou's negotiating history. He likes taking his time, and he tends to give out inflated contracts.

I know i'm going to get asked "well what do you want him to do pay him 10 million per for 3 years or 11 for 5?"

at this point yes because this is a cup year

So let me get this straight. You want to give Marner a significant overpayment because we have a good shot this year, so you don't want this to drag on through... the summer? It doesn't matter when he gets signed until he's actually missing time, or at least training camp.

Based on your logic, I don't think you're in a position to complain about negotiating, because you're arguing for giving up on a good deal early for no payoff whatsoever. What do we gain by giving him 10 per for 3 now instead of two million less before the season starts? Why are you in a rush?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised with Marner's deal based on what you're willing to give him. Patience. Ferris wants to force Dubas into a panic move. It's not going to work. None of the other big RFAs are budging either. It's a game of chicken right now to see who blinks first.

I bet I won't have an issue with what Marner gets, just like I have no issue with what Nylander got, but I do have an issue with the fact that it took until December to get it done especially sense it later campe out that Nylander's deal could have been done in September and Dubas himself admitted he didn't try hard enough to get it done in the summer there is no reason for that.

And there is no reason for pulling the same stunt with Marner, we are 2 weeks from camp this should be done, and before anyone brings up other RFA's I don't care because they don't impact the Leafs

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Nylander, yes. Marner? He's part of a whole group of RFAs that are pushing this to the limit, with nobody outside Matthews and Aho signing. It's quite obvious that is not on Dubas.



What do you base this on? Because it sure doesn't seem to be Lou's negotiating history. He likes taking his time, and he tends to give out inflated contracts.


So let me get this straight. You want to give Marner a significant overpayment because we have a good shot this year, so you don't want this to drag on through... the summer? It doesn't matter when he gets signed until he's actually missing time, or at least training camp.

Based on your logic, I don't think you're in a position to complain about negotiating, because you're arguing for giving up on a good deal early for no payoff whatsoever. What do we gain by giving him 10 per for 3 now instead of two million less before the season starts? Why are you in a rush?

Are you suggesting he signs fpr 8? If he'd do that it would have been done weeks if not months ago.

 

[Marshy]

I bet I won't have an issue with what Marner gets, just like I have no issue with what Nylander got, but I do have an issue with the fact that it took until December to get it done especially sense it later campe out that Nylander's deal could have been done in September and Dubas himself admitted he didn't try hard enough to get it done in the summer there is no reason for that.

And there is no reason for pulling the same stunt with Marner, we are 2 weeks from camp this should be done, and before anyone brings up other RFA's I don't care because they don't impact the Leafs

Dubas likes to fall on his sword to protect the players. It's admirable but don't put too much stock into it. The Nylander contract stalemate wasn't all on him. Likely little of it was. Players are wanting more now and sooner. Teams still have players on the books under the "old" system where players got paid on what they did vs. what they will do. It's a transition all teams are facing. The Leafs and to a lesser extent the Jets are getting it bad because they have some of the most high profile RFAs due for new deals around the same time.

Bottom line we'll be ok here. I agree with you that this can't go into November again. Dubas needs to make his best offer this month and if it's rebuked - start the trade wheels in motion with an eye to a trade in October. I hope it doesn't come to that - I love Marner.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Dubas likes to fall on his sword to protect the players. It's admirable but don't put too much stock into it. The Nylander contract stalemate wasn't all on him. Likely little of it was. Players are wanting more now and sooner. Teams still have players on the books under the "old" system where players got paid on what they did vs. what they will do. It's a transition all teams are facing. The Leafs and to a lesser extent the Jets are getting it bad because they have some of the most high profile RFAs due for new deals around the same time.

Bottom line we'll be ok here. I agree with you that this can't go into November again. Dubas needs to make his best offer this month and if it's rebuked - start the trade wheels in motion with an eye to a trade in October. I hope it doesn't come to that - I love Marner.

If the report that the deal Nylander got could have been signed in September is accurate that's 100% on Dubas especially if the Leafs reported offer of 6.2 is accurate, that would mean that 700K kept Nylander on the sidelines that'snot something that can be allowed.

There was a report maybe a month ago that marner's camp offer 3 years 30 million or 10 per and that Toronto wanted around 9.5 million, although term was not mentioned on their end.

Again IF true Dubas is lettering 500J be a sticking point you can't do that, not for your stars

 

[Marshy]

If the report that the deal Nylander got could have been signed in September is accurate that's 100% on Dubas especially if the Leafs reported offer of 6.2 is accurate, that would mean that 700K kept Nylander on the sidelines that'snot something that can be allowed.

There was a report maybe a month ago that marner's camp offer 3 years 30 million or 10 per and that Toronto wanted around 9.5 million, although term was not mentioned on their end.

Again IF true Dubas is lettering 500J be a sticking point you can't do that, not for your stars

More likely Nylander's camp was looking for the Draisaitl contract or close to it in September --> $8 - $8.5M AAV. There were reports/rumours of that at the time. If true, Dubas did well not to cave to that.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If they couldn't hold the line with Nylander your assertion that they will do that this off-season seems hopeful

They did hold the line with Nylander. Nylander came to Dubas and decided to sign the deal.

 

[Dekes For Days]

especially sense it later campe out that Nylander's deal could have been done in September

This is untrue.

we are 2 weeks from camp this should be done

We are 2 weeks from camp, so it really doesn't make any difference if he is signed right now. You are just impatient.

 

[Mess]

As long as Marner and Matthews put up points according to their new AAV cap hits the Leafs will be fine.

JT, AM and soon MM will all have top 10 highest AAV so having them all 3 finish in the top 10 in NHL scoring in 2019-20 will match salaries to production accordingly.

If they under performing their deals it could be a problem.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Are you suggesting he signs fpr 8? If he'd do that it would have been done weeks if not months ago.

Doesn't work like that. Negotiations take time, and as time runs out the parties will move closer to each other.

All I'm saying is that we have time, there's absolutely nothing to gain by rushing things, and chances are good that what we get him for then is better than what we'd get him for now.

 

[Joey Hoser]

And there is no reason for pulling the same stunt with Marner, we are 2 weeks from camp this should be done, and before anyone brings up other RFA's I don't care because they don't impact the Leafs

What's the difference if he signed six weeks ago or two weeks from now?

 

[Nithoniniel]

If the report that the deal Nylander got could have been signed in September is accurate that's 100% on Dubas especially if the Leafs reported offer of 6.2 is accurate, that would mean that 700K kept Nylander on the sidelines that'snot something that can be allowed.

There was a report maybe a month ago that marner's camp offer 3 years 30 million or 10 per and that Toronto wanted around 9.5 million, although term was not mentioned on their end.

Again IF true Dubas is lettering 500J be a sticking point you can't do that, not for your stars

There was unsubstantiated talk that the exact contract could have been available early, which would have been a 6x7.5 contract, not the 6x7 it later turned into.

There was a report this summer that Marner offered 3x10, which would be a horrible contract. The same report stated that Leafs wouldn't touch that number except on a long-term deal.

I agree that you don't nickel and dime your stars. That's a mistake done with Nylander. Both parties lost on not meeting in the middle. With Marner there's still time. I don't think a 500K difference is going to keep him unsigned into the season.

 

[japhi]

What's the difference if he signed six weeks ago or two weeks from now?

8 weeks would be the difference.

 

[Joey Hoser]

8 weeks would be the difference.

And what would that matter?

Besides impatient fans being upset, I mean.

 

[disgruntleddave]

There was unsubstantiated talk that the exact contract could have been available early, which would have been a 6x7.5 contract, not the 6x7 it later turned into.

There was a report this summer that Marner offered 3x10, which would be a horrible contract. The same report stated that Leafs wouldn't touch that number except on a long-term deal.

I agree that you don't nickel and dime your stars. That's a mistake done with Nylander. Both parties lost on not meeting in the middle. With Marner there's still time. I don't think a 500K difference is going to keep him unsigned into the season.

500k will keep him unsigned into the season if the exact number is just high enough to force the leafs to move someone to make room.

If we had more cap space it would be one thing, but we have a hard limit with the roster otherwise as-is. Obviously marner's camp knows this, meaning that they have their number set and term is the issue. Naturally, term and money are related, but that's probably not the game that marner's camp is playing.

I think it's much more likely that the leafs cave slightly on term. If Marner's number is around 10, we think the leafs will push for 7 or 8 years at that money, marner will push for 3 (or getting greedy and pushing for 4). It means it will end up at 5, or hopefully 6 years to avoid lining up with Matthews. I don't think most of us would be happy with marner at 10+ x6 years, we'd see it as a slight overpay / too short term, but most probably wouldn't be up in arms (except for those continually pushing the narrative that Dubas is incapable, since they started after Nylander..).

 

[4thline]

There was unsubstantiated talk that the exact contract could have been available early, which would have been a 6x7.5 contract, not the 6x7 it later turned into.

Which is an interesting scenario for the endgame. It paints a picture of a reasonably integrative negotiation with each party valuing different things. Leafs hardlining at a 7m aav but being willing to make him whole at that number, Nylander wanting a 7.5 next to his name but willing to bear the cost of sitting out.

 

[ULF_55]

It's funny you speak like you have a clue on whats going on behind the scenes. You have no idea who's parents are involved and to what aspect.

Why do I even know marner's father's name?

For fun: These Paul Marner Demands Are Getting Out Of Hand — Dean Blundell's Sports, News, Podcast Network


Mitch Marner to Switzerland should make you laugh — Dean Blundell's Sports, News, Podcast Network

Newsflash – the talks between Marner’s agent Darren Ferris and Kyle Dubas have been extremely positive for over a month now. Kyle Dubas doesn’t want Mitch Marner to miss training camp and vice versa. The deal will get done, you can book it

Are the Maple Leafs considering turning their backs on Mitch Marner? — Dean Blundell's Sports, News, Podcast Network

Turns out the recent positive talks may have subsided after a letter on the jersey and $11.6 million appear to be considered end alls for Marner’s camp. Kyle Dubas is always a man who keeps everything close to his chest and these contract talks being no different, however, somebody in the know has mentioned they have chatted a time or two in regards to some players to focus on should a Marner trade be the only option.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Well it's just me speaking for myself, but Mitch and co. have pretty much undone my excitement for him as a Leaf.
No longer the fan I was and wouldn't really be bothered if he was traded for equal return.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Well it's just me speaking for myself, but Mitch and co. have pretty much undone my excitement for him as a Leaf.
No longer the fan I was and wouldn't really be bothered if he was traded for equal return.

What if he signs a deal in the next couple weeks, and it turns out that everything you are upset about was nothing to be upset about?