Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Less than 2 weeks to camp

[Thissiteisgarbage]

What if he signs a deal in the next couple weeks, and it turns out that everything you are upset about was nothing to be upset about?

Didn't win me back to Nylander's camp when he signed so I'd wager I;d still feel the same way as I do now.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Didn't win me back to Nylander's camp when he signed so I'd wager I;d still feel the same way as I do now.

Why though? All Marner has done is negotiate a new contract after his old contract expired

 

[ULF_55]

As long as Marner and Matthews put up points according to their new AAV cap hits the Leafs will be fine.

JT, AM and soon MM will all have top 10 highest AAV so having them all 3 finish in the top 10 in NHL scoring in 2019-20 will match salaries to production accordingly.

If they under performing their deals it could be a problem.

I think you have to look at %ofCap to get a truer picture of the salary.

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Matthews 6th. in % of cap. Others have already received their money from their % of the cap money. Matthews is % of future cap money.

Leafs have 3 in the top 20, and will have 4 shortly ... unless marner is moved.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Why though? All Marner has done is negotiate a new contract after his old contract expired

Admittedly I don't know 100% what goes on behind closed doors, but it sounds like he/his camp are just being greedy SOB's with ego(s) playing a large role.
Seen lots and lots of hockey players come and go over my years. Marner is good, but I've learned they're all easily replaceable in terms of who I want to cheer for.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

If Marner or Ferris are smart they'd better hurry before an RFA comparable to his skill and stats signs..aka Raatenen and Point (Point is a center sometimes but wing more oft if I remember right) even if not Raatenen is very comparable.

If say he signs 7x10 or 7 by 9.75 what Marner going to say. Raatenen played less games with slightly..very slightly less points. Hes fast, he drives that line more than MacKinnon. Anyway Marner better hurry

Marner will just say that those other RFA's are not applicable to the Leafs situation and use AM's $11.6M as the bar. See how this works? if another team signed their RFA to $12M...Marner is saying "Look at what he got as an RFA...I want that"...but if he signs for peanuts...they will argue that the "TEAM" salary structure is what they want to negotiate on.

It's always this way with agents. If a guy signs too high..they never disregard it..only the Pasternak deals are thrown out as unicorn contracts that don't apply.

 

[ULF_55]

What if he signs a deal in the next couple weeks, and it turns out that everything you are upset about was nothing to be upset about?

I hope everyone wants that to happen.

Of course there will be some who don't want that to happen because part of being fanatic is enjoying the extremes.

Honestly, as long as they can get a Cup winning team who cares who makes what?

If they don't win this might be the first generation of player that is remembered without much respect/adulation in Toronto if their biggest wins are to their bank accounts.

Remember the Moskoka 5, and that is because they wanted to go for it and stay together this would be because they were only interested in the money.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

I hope everyone wants that to happen.

Of course there will be some who don't want that to happen because part of being fanatic is enjoying the extremes.

Honestly, as long as they can get a Cup winning team who cares who makes what?

If they don't win this might be the first generation of player that is remembered without much respect/adulation in Toronto if their biggest wins are to their bank accounts.

I hope he signs as well...I'm just saying his shine has worn off for me a bit because of all this. If you threaten to hold fans 'hostage' by holding out, you gotta expect what comes with that.

 

[ULF_55]

Marner will just say that those other RFA's are not applicable to the Leafs situation and use AM's $11.6M as the bar. See how this works? if another team signed their RFA to $12M...Marner is saying "Look at what he got as an RFA...I want that"...but if he signs for peanuts...they will argue that the "TEAM" salary structure is what they want to negotiate on.

It's always this way with agents. If a guy signs too high..they never disregard it..only the Pasternak deals are thrown out as unicorn contracts that don't apply.

Yes, they can claim they will only sign Matthews deal.

If Leafs cannot make that work, they just have to trade him.

At that point the Matthews contract becomes as relevant as McDavid's contract.

Sometimes you just have to move on.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I hope everyone wants that to happen.

Of course there will be some who don't want that to happen because part of being fanatic is enjoying the extremes.

Honestly, as long as they can get a Cup winning team who cares who makes what?

If they don't win this might be the first generation of player that is remembered without much respect/adulation in Toronto if their biggest wins are to their bank accounts.

To me it's just kinda crazy that people freak out about this at all.

Let's give the pessimists the benefit of the doubt, and say that Matthews, Marner and Nylander are all over paid by a combined 4 million dollars. That's still not a bad situation, because they're all great players earning 90+% of their salary. A bad cap situation is one with bad players making 5-10 times what they are worth, if they're even worth anything at all, like Marleau, Lucic, Bobby Ryan, Eriksson, Boychuk and other crap contracts that actually burden your ability to build your team. The Leafs have literally NO actually bad contracts, save perhaps Ceci, but even then there's a bunch of context around that.

The notion that people pour hours of energy and dismay into discussing 5 vs 8 years for Matthews, but are seemingly unconcerned with having to give up a first round pick to get rid of Marleau's 6+ million dollars, is complete bananas.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Marner will just say that those other RFA's are not applicable to the Leafs situation and use AM's $11.6M as the bar. See how this works? if another team signed their RFA to $12M...Marner is saying "Look at what he got as an RFA...I want that"...but if he signs for peanuts...they will argue that the "TEAM" salary structure is what they want to negotiate on.

It's always this way with agents. If a guy signs too high..they never disregard it..only the Pasternak deals are thrown out as unicorn contracts that don't apply.

He can say his only comparable is Gretzky if he wants, it doesn't mean the Leafs or anyone else agrees or that he'll get paid as such.

 

[Peiskos]

Leafs should trade Nylander asap. I've always maintained that while a fantastic acquisition of signing Tavares in free agency it hampered our ability to run long term with what was the traditional/original big 3 in Matthews, Marner, Nylander, I thoroughly believe that getting JT was the death warrant of one of those original big 3.

Nobody knows, maybe Marner will be that causality. It should be Nylander. We're going to need that money for Barrie and to maintain a quality D corps anyways.

 

[DarkKnight]

Well it's just me speaking for myself, but Mitch and co. have pretty much undone my excitement for him as a Leaf.
No longer the fan I was and wouldn't really be bothered if he was traded for equal return.

Sucks to be you I guess, I can’t wait to watch him play again...we don’t see that very often in a Leafs uniform.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I hope he signs as well...I'm just saying his shine has worn off for me a bit because of all this. If you threaten to hold fans 'hostage' by holding out, you gotta expect what comes with that.

Whoa, well that's something. When did Marner do that?

 

[Bigmarycombo]

A shot that doesn't hit the net, is not considered a shot on goal, so this premise seems to be flawed.

No the premise that’s is flawed is your stating Nylander had bad luck last year. Like I said hitting the post 10 times is bad luck shooting into the goalies body for an easy save is piss poor shooting.

The excuses for nylander and Matthews has to stop this year.

 

[ULF_55]

To me it's just kinda crazy that people freak out about this at all.

Let's give the pessimists the benefit of the doubt, and say that Matthews, Marner and Nylander are all over paid by a combined 4 million dollars. That's still not a bad situation, because they're all great players earning 90+% of their salary. A bad cap situation is one with bad players making 5-10 times what they are worth, if they're even worth anything at all, like Marleau, Lucic, Bobby Ryan, Eriksson, Boychuk and other crap contracts that actually burden your ability to build your team. The Leafs have literally NO actually bad contracts, save perhaps Ceci, but even then there's a bunch of context around that.

The notion that people pour hours of energy and dismay into discussing 5 vs 8 years for Matthews, but are seemingly unconcerned with having to give up a first round pick to get rid of Marleau's 6+ million dollars, is complete bananas.

Yes, Ceci is just a one year deal, the Flames and Oilers trade was a let's move the guys and let them start fresh somewhere else because they have long term deals that will only be worth the cost if they are on LTIR.

I think for me the breaking point on marner's deal is if they have to weaken the team to retain him.

marner is a valuable asset and what you need to is best utilize your assets in pursuit of the Cup. The name of the assets is unimportant.

Fire Dubas, fire Babcock, trade Andersson/Matthers/marner, fire the watercarrier ... whatever it takes.

 

[Mess]

I think you have to look at %ofCap to get a truer picture of the salary.

Browse - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Matthews 6th. in % of cap. Others have already received their money from their % of the cap money. Matthews is % of future cap money.

Leafs have 3 in the top 20, and will have 4 shortly ... unless marner is moved.

Marner will come in ahead of Nylander and likely pretty close to Tavares at #12.

Only 3 other Teams that have 2 in the top 2o and they're Pens, Kings and Hawks and what do they all have in common?

Answer: Multiple Stanley Cups

What came first the Chicken or the Egg Stanley Cup?

Leafs are in a pay first and win second situation whereas others are paying for past success of proven and Conn Smythe winners and our Leafs having double 2 X the top CH% of those that did win.

Going to be interesting to see if this strategy pays off.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Whoa, well that's something. When did Marner do that?

You don't think he's prepared to sit/not sign?
That kinda seems to be the message they're sending the team, no?

 

[ULF_55]

Sucks to be you I guess, I can’t wait to watch him play again...we don’t see that very often in a Leafs uniform.

I want to watch them receive the Cup again.

However I do understand that watching great talent is enjoyable even when they're losers.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Term is the issue, I think. Leafs wouldn't have a problem paying Marner 11 per. You just won't be able to sign mediocre UFAs like Marleau, or even worse, Clarkson anymore. Big deal. But you don't want to pay 11 per for 5 years.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Marner is negotiating a contact to play for the Maple Leafs during the offseason. Interpreting that as some sort of attack on you as fan is... I don't even know what. Self-absorbed, delusional... many bad things.

His camp wants to take the Leafs to the cleaners, that's what they want. That's all what the RFAs want, team be damned.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Yes, Ceci is just a one year deal, the Flames and Oilers trade was a let's move the guys and let them start fresh somewhere else because they have long term deals that will only be worth the cost if they are on LTIR.

I think for me the breaking point on marner's deal is if they have to weaken the team to retain him.

marner is a valuable asset and what you need to is best utilize your assets in pursuit of the Cup. The name of the assets is unimportant.

Fire Dubas, fire Babcock, trade Andersson/Matthers/marner, fire the watercarrier ... whatever it takes.

You don’t let a marner go you let the lesser players go.

If you need a couple of more millions to sign marner you trade a Johnsson and bring up a guy who is cheaper and can fill in just as good.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Marner will come in ahead of Nylander and likely pretty close to Tavares at #12.

Only 3 other Teams that have 2 in the top 2o and they're Pens, Kings and Hawks and what do they all have in common?

Answer: Multiple Stanley Cups

What came first the Chicken or the Egg Stanley Cup?

Leafs are in a pay first and win second situation whereas others are paying for past success of proven and Conn Smythe winners and our Leafs having double 2 X the top CH% of those that did win.

Going to be interesting to see if this strategy pays off.

It’s not a strategy it is the way of the new nhl. All the kids want two big paydays. One after their elc for 5 years then another to take them to retirement. Times have changed you can’t compare the past

 

[Suntouchable13]

You don’t let a marner go you let the lesser players go.

If you need a couple of more millions to sign marner you trade a Johnsson and bring up a guy who is cheaper and can fill in just as good.

Then you're making the team weaker because of what Marner wants. Team is weaker without Marner, I get that, but I just don't want to cater to his whims. Leafs have already cleared out plenty of salary to fit him in. Plenty.

 

[ORRFForever]

Term is the issue, I think. Leafs wouldn't have a problem paying Marner 11 per. You just won't be able to sign mediocre UFAs like Marleau, or even worse, Clarkson anymore. Big deal. But you don't want to pay 11 per for 5 years.

I agree. Unfortunately, they put themselves in this position after the Matthews contract.

Remember when these players were just happy to play for the Leafs? Seems like a long time ago. Now they want everything.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Term is the issue, I think. Leafs wouldn't have a problem paying Marner 11 per. You just won't be able to sign mediocre UFAs like Marleau, or even worse, Clarkson anymore. Big deal. But you don't want to pay 11 per for 5 years.

Why we already did that
We will have to see how that works out