Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Less than 2 weeks to camp

[ULF_55]

You don't think he's prepared to sit/not sign?
That kinda seems to be the message they're sending the team, no?

Both will play the end-times game.

Both would lose if they can't make something happen.

marner giving up one year of his career earnings even at $8mm, doesn't mean next year at team will add that money back into a contract.
Leafs giving up one year of marner's contributions can't be recovered.

I think trading him is better for both if they can't come to a workable deal.

 

[DarkKnight]

I want to watch them receive the Cup again.

However I do understand that watching great talent is enjoyable even when they're losers.

Marner is fun to watch like Mogilny was fun to watch. Marner didn’t create Dubie dollars, lots of blame to go around.

 

[beleaf101]

Marner's camp made a big deal about not wanting to negotiate in the season last year. The Leafs should say to the Marner camp this what you wanted this what you get. Sign by the end of training camp or we don't negotiate until next off season. That's the hard dradline. No repeat of Willy fiasco .

 

[ORRFForever]

Both will play the end-times game.

Both would lose if they can't make something happen.

marner giving up one year of his career earnings even at $8mm, doesn't mean next year at team will add that money back into a contract.
Leafs giving up one year of marner's contributions can't be recovered.

I think trading him is better for both if they can't come to a workable deal.

There has to be an RFA out there willing to sign long term for $10.5M so, as you said, trade them.

Having said that, trading the local boy won't go over well but Leaf fans will get over it.

My guess : JT wants him here!

 

[Bigmarycombo]

Then you're making the team weaker because of what Marner wants. Team is weaker without Marner, I get that, but I just don't want to cater to his whims. Leafs have already cleared out plenty of salary to fit him in. Plenty.

As you said the team would be a whole lot weaker without marner.
Losing say Johnsson might not make our team weaker because maybe the new Russian or someone like Bracco can step up. Johnsson can be replace by Moore who in my mind is just as good but will be stuck on one of the lower lines because of numbers.
Again my point is you never let a guy with marner talent go over a perceived million dollars overpayment.

 

[ULF_55]

You don’t let a marner go you let the lesser players go.

If you need a couple of more millions to sign marner you trade a Johnsson and bring up a guy who is cheaper and can fill in just as good.

You trade anyone if it makes the team better and more likely to win the Cup.

In a marner thread it is all about marner, but winning the Cup is the goal, the marners are just assets, not the goal.

 

[ORRFForever]

Marner's camp made a big deal about not wanting to negotiate in the season last year. The Leafs should say to the Marner camp this what you wanted this what you get. Sign by the end of training camp or we don't negotiate until next off season. That's the hard dradline. No repeat of Willy fiasco .

I like it but it is easier said than done. The "What if's"...

* What if JT's production falls off?
* What if Matthews gets hurt?
* What if the Leafs start off SLOWLY and risk missing the playoffs?

Do you change your mind?

 

[ORRFForever]

Both JT and Matthews should tell the Leafs they are willing to take a small pay cut - pay BOTH $10.75M, so the Leafs can give Marner the same.

That's the way it should have been in the first place - they all make the same.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

You trade anyone if it makes the team better and more likely to win the Cup.

In a marner thread it is all about marner, but winning the Cup is the goal, the marners are just assets, not the goal.

You will never get a full return for marner in a trade. No one will give up the multiple assets that it would take to get a player of his caliber.

Again read my post. You have a better chance to win the cup with marner than you do with not trading a Johnsson to make his contract work.

 

[ULF_55]

As you said the team would be a whole lot weaker without marner.
Losing say Johnsson might not make our team weaker because maybe the new Russian or someone like Bracco can step up. Johnsson can be replace by Moore who in my mind is just as good but will be stuck on one of the lower lines because of numbers.
Again my point is you never let a guy with marner talent go over a perceived million dollars overpayment.

Where does the overpayment end though?
1.5, 2.0, 2.5 ... at what point do you say you just don't fit?

 

[ORRFForever]

If Dubas had said once JT had signed...

"NO player gets more than JT", none of this would be an issue.

 

[LeafChief]

I like it but it is easier said than done. The "What if's"...

* What if JT's production falls off?
* What if Matthews gets hurt?
* What if the Leafs start off SLOWLY and risk missing the playoffs?

Do you change your mind?

What if they don't?

 

[ORRFForever]

What if they don't?

Then you stick to your guns.

I'm just saying, there's a definite possibility you have yo go to Marner, hat in hand, so be careful with ultimatums.

 

[Cleetus]

Sucks to be you I guess, I can’t wait to watch him play again...we don’t see that very often in a Leafs uniform.

jaw dropping Talent, love watching him play!

 

[DarkKnight]

jaw dropping Talent, love watching him play!

He’s a pure treat to watch!

 

[ULF_55]

You will never get a full return for marner in a trade. No one will give up the multiple assets that it would take to get a player of his caliber.

Again read my post. You have a better chance to win the cup with marner than you do with not trading a Johnsson to make his contract work.

Always depends on the return in a trade.

marner could be the best winger in the world (he isn't), but that doesn't guarantee anything.

Build the better team.

 

[ORRFForever]

What if, AFTER the deadline,

* What if JT's production falls off?
* What if Matthews gets hurt?
* What if the Leafs start losing and risk missing the playoffs?

Then you shot yourself in the foot.

If I've learned nothing in life, and sometimes it feels like I've learned nothing, I've learned to be careful with ULTIMATUMS. They feel GREAT at the time but, more times than not, you regret them.

 

[LeafChief]

What if, AFTER the deadline,

* What if JT's production falls off?
* What if Matthews gets hurt?
* What if the Leafs start losing and risk missing the playoffs?

Then you shot yourself in the foot.

If I've learned nothing in life, and sometimes it feels like I've learned nothing, I've learned to be careful with ULTIMATUMS. They feel GREAT at the time but, more times than not, you regret them.

What if they don't?

 

[ORRFForever]

What if they don't?

LOL.

Then give him an ultimatum. Again, my experience, ultimatum are not good.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Marner prob signs 1 days after training camp closes

 

[ORRFForever]

Marner prob signs 1 days after training camp closes

He'll sign. We have given this way too much of our time.

I am off for a walk.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Both will play the end-times game.

Both would lose if they can't make something happen.

marner giving up one year of his career earnings even at $8mm, doesn't mean next year at team will add that money back into a contract.
Leafs giving up one year of marner's contributions can't be recovered.

I think trading him is better for both if they can't come to a workable deal.

If you are Dubas you have to look at the long term implications of having a player that will always want close to AM money. If you think that his camp will ALWAYS be bitching about the contract of AM compared to MM...you move him. I might be inclined to pay him less over 3 yrs to see if he really is that good. Maybe he flops a bit and only averages 75-80pts a year for 3 years...but somehow I doubt his camp will ever be realistic when it comes to his worth to the Leafs.

At this point its more bragging rights than anything...like what can you do with $11.6 that you can't do with $9.5m? If I was MM...I would take the lesser $$ and look like the good guy who wants to win more than padding his bank account. ...but that is just me..

 

[LeafChief]

LOL.

Then give him an ultimatum. Again, my experience, ultimatum are not good.

Your experience in signing NHL contracts?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

If Dubas had said once JT had signed...

"NO player gets more than JT", none of this would be an issue.

Unfortunately we all assumed that this would be the case. We thought Mathews would come in between Eichel and McDavid on an 8yr deal. Something happened to them since the first couple of years...I don't know what it was but something changed. I really hoped they would respect the fact that JT took less to come here and fall in line. Instead...they basically said "Thanks for the extra cap room sucker" and took that cap room for themselves.

How they can look at their teammates like Reilly, Tavares and Andersen with a straight face is beyond me. I don't care what people say...it cannot have a positive effect in the room...it just can't.

 

[ULF_55]

Then you stick to your guns.

I'm just saying, there's a definite possibility you have yo go to Marner, hat in hand, so be careful with ultimatums.

There are no ultimatums though.
There are realities of a salary cap.