Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Less than 2 weeks to camp

[Kiwi]

I think some people are confused about how the cap works. The Leafs picked up Clarkson so he, along with Horton, would be able to get the team to the cap (assuming Marner is not yet signed) allowing (hypothetically) all of their combined 10.55M to be freed up by LTIR. Adding Zetterberg would just put the team 6M over the cap, so putting him on LTIR would free up zero dollars (it would still be, hypothetically, 10.55M).

There is no get out jail free card here.

If the Horton and Clarkson money isn't enough to sign Marner we've got some serious issues anyway

That 2nd year on the Zetterberg deal always made it a non starter even without the other stuff on top

 

[Suntouchable13]

I think he is a very good player, but he is no Ovi, or Crosby or McDavid, I don't do everything I can to re-sign him. If I can't fit him in with the cap I currently I have, I trade him. Leafs already cleared as much cap as they can.

 

[biotk]

If the Horton and Clarkson money isn't enough to sign Marner we've got some serious issues anyway

That 2nd year on the Zetterberg deal always made it a non starter even without the other stuff on top

Yes. Regardless, there is simply no room for Gardiner unless Marner doesn't sign or Gardiner signs for near league min.

 

[Kiwi]

Yes. Regardless, there is simply no room for Gardiner unless Marner doesn't sign or Gardiner signs for near league min.

Or you can ditch Ceci somehow, as wildly unlikely as that is

 

[HockeyAndWings]

I'm opposed to trading Marner unless his demands are ridiculous or we can get a significant overpayment for him. I try to trade some of our lesser pieces first, and see if we can fit Marner under the salary cap.

Marner being reasonable would be helpful, hopefully, a fair deal can be reached which helps both sides.

 

[Cleetus]

I'm opposed to trading Marner unless his demands are ridiculous or we can get a significant overpayment for him. I try to trade some of our lesser pieces first, and see if we can fit Marner under the salary cap.

Marner being reasonable would be helpful, hopefully, a fair deal can be reached which helps both sides.

I like hockey, and like Wings, and I like your wisdom!

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Adding Zetterberg would just put the team 6M over the cap, so putting him on LTIR would free up zero dollars (it would still be, hypothetically, 10.55M).

When you put a player on LTIR when you are already in LTIR, the ACSL remains the same but the players salary gets added to the salary relief pool. It will allow us to exceed the ACSL, which I expect to be very close to $81.5m, by another $6m.

If the Horton and Clarkson money isn't enough to sign Marner we've got some serious issues anyway

By my measure we’ve got about $10.2m for him which should be enough so long as he’s signed before the season starts.

 

[biotk]

When you put a player on LTIR when you are already in LTIR, the ACSL remains the same but the players salary gets added to the salary relief pool. It will allow us to exceed the ACSL, which I expect to be very close to $81.5m, by another $6m.

Sigh. I am not going to waste any more time on you.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Nm not worth it.

 

[Kiwi]

When you put a player on LTIR when you are already in LTIR, the ACSL remains the same but the players salary gets added to the salary relief pool. It will allow us to exceed the ACSL, which I expect to be very close to $81.5m, by another $6m.



By my measure we’ve got about $10.2m for him which should be enough so long as he’s signed before the season starts.

I've messed with the numbers and can get about 10.45M of room before I've got to throw salary overboard

It took some wrangling though

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I've messed with the numbers and can get about 10.45M of room before I've got to throw salary overboard

It took some wrangling though

Yea, and even then you want to try and leave room for injury call ups, but we’re nowhere close to opening up enough for, say a Gauthier on a road trip.

 

[Damisoph]

Who has more clout, Habs and Leafs or Bolts and Panthers? If the clubs who play in grinding tax environments want a change you would think they would get it. Boston and NYR are also in the six highest tax rates and the Cali teams are in the top ten. These teams are the movers and shakers. I am not sure why tax equalization isnt a thing, but it just isn't. The have nots must be using some other arguement to continue to exploit the unbalanced taxes.

Can't see anything happening about the tax situation. It's too complex to just put some blanket policy in place.

What they should be doing is some sort of allowance on signing your own draft picks. You get 15% or 20% off the cap hit. I think that could be done pretty easily if they really wanted to.

 

[Havoc]

When you put a player on LTIR when you are already in LTIR, the ACSL remains the same but the players salary gets added to the salary relief pool. It will allow us to exceed the ACSL, which I expect to be very close to $81.5m, by another $6m.



By my measure we’ve got about $10.2m for him which should be enough so long as he’s signed before the season starts.

Zetterberg cap hit gets added to the cap. So yes you exceed the amount you can go over by another 6 mil, but you also added 6 mil to the cap.

Right now we have 84 mil on the cap with 2ish mil being relief. Add in Berg our cap hit is now 90. Using LTIR just cancels out Berg increasing the cap to 90. There's zero gain in relief.

Sadly there's no more tricks left. They need to sign Marner asap.

 

[Damisoph]

Have to laugh at the wording in this article

The Leafs’ top line heading into training camp is John Tavares and (insert two names here) | The Star

Marner and Hyman helped Tavares to his career high in goals. Lol.

The thing I took away from this is the belief the parties are closing in on a 3 year $9.5m aav contract. So we can do all this again in 2022.

 

[SweLeafsFan]

So we can do all this again in 2022.

I can't wait

 

[ZEBROA]

Marner is not desperatly needed to win the cup. He would help, but so would whatever we get for him. Specialy if going by his McDavid and Matthews rating. There must be a couple underated guys out there who will make the team as good as with Marner. I belive he will sign soon and not live up to that contract. I hope he lives up to it, but then everything need to go his way.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Zetterberg cap hit gets added to the cap. So yes you exceed the amount you can go over by another 6 mil, but you also added 6 mil to the cap.

Right I got it, thanks. I was thinking we can still be under the cap without Marner and someone like Zetterberg, then bump an extra $6m, but the system still works to cap you up to the limit but nowhere beyond that.

 

[FMichael]

Man these other unsigned RFA’s dads....

Keith Tkachuk was a master of contract headaches back when the team was in Winnipeg...Matthew is just following his fathers' footsteps.

 

[TML Dynasty]

He's a really handy player to have on the roster and you cant doubt his motor but at some point he needs to have a realistic valuation of himself.
Id hate to lose him for the year or have him miss camp over this. However I don't want the Leafs to a) make their cap situation any harder moving forward and b) show our future RFA's that this is the way to negotiate. I really hopes this comes to a healthy conclusion but if I had a choice between signing Mitch at a risk to our future (pretty vague statement....I get that) or sitting him and trying to find someone who wants to play with us......I choose the second.

Lets combine Bracco's vision and passing ability with Moore's motor and boom we have a replacement.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Paul Marner stuff is blown out of proportion for no reason. They are both important to this team and Dubas screwed it up by not planning properly or having even an ounce of foresight.

If "parenting" is an issue then may be Michael Nylander should have cut the umbilical cord before december 1st; and posters here should not have tried to justify a 27 pt season like the second coming of gretzky

What on earth is this even? The bolded never happened. It never came close. Why waste your time and energy complaining about things that never happened?

Why drag M Nylander into this, did you hear anything from him during Willies negotiations?

Yeah. Michael Nylander did absolutely nothing wrong during that negotiating. If you want to blame them for everything dragging on until december, that blame should be put at Willy's feet.

 

[Sens]

Who has more clout, Habs and Leafs or Bolts and Panthers? If the clubs who play in grinding tax environments want a change you would think they would get it. Boston and NYR are also in the six highest tax rates and the Cali teams are in the top ten. These teams are the movers and shakers. I am not sure why tax equalization isnt a thing, but it just isn't. The have nots must be using some other arguement to continue to exploit the unbalanced taxes.

Maybe cause teams like the Leafs and Rangers can front load bonuses

If you want to change the tax system... I’d Be arguing to cap the signing bonus money

 

[hullsy47]

If some Leaf Nation fans would have have screamed and shouted at the idea of Dubas signing Marner to the Draisaitl deal last summer then what will those same fans say now that Marner is going to get >$10 mil and not 8 years but 2-3 years less?

What was was viewed as bad overpayment last summer is even worse now in terms of cap hit AAV and term.

Dubas isn't vindicated by NOT giving Marner the Draisaitl deal last summer if the contract he signs him for now is much higher and less term.

I guess I'm asking how is smart of Dubas not pay Marner $8-$9 mil X 8 years last summer, but wise he waited to give him $10-$11 mil now for 5-6 years?

Regardless the leafs hopefully have learned To penalize holdoutd
Nylander fiasco cant happen
Even if it means firing the gm
Or maybe its time To leak out the réal offerd To bobby mac or King eliotte
Let the fans know

 

[gabeliscious]

Once the season starts, the leafs will not be able to offer marner as much because the first year cap hit will be too high. Might be dubas tactic? Take x offer because once season starts we will be unable to offer the same because the cap hit will be too much.

Using nylander as an example, i think his cap hit was $10 mill last year on a $7 million deal. Leafs had luxury of cap space. Wont be same this time around.

Wonder how much more then $8 million it would take a2 year deal? Probably $2 million more

 

[Mess]

Regardless the leafs hopefully have learned To penalize holdoutd
Nylander fiasco cant happen
Even if it means firing the gm
Or maybe its time To leak out the réal offerd To bobby mac or King eliotte
Let the fans know

I think the numbers were leaked out last summer and this summer as reported by the media at various times. Only everyone is free to believe or not the sources doing the leaking and decide for themselves how much trust to put into them.

Dubas would have been much better off signing Marner last summer, and signing Matthews last, as both waiting and allowing Marner to pile up points with JT (which was a totally predictable outcome), and to go after Matthews, and now using him as his only comparable leverage against him has backfired badly on final #'s now and reflective of inexperience in handling these big multi-million dollar deals from the GM chair.

I personally wouldn't want to be in Dubas' shoes right now..

Look at it from a pure business perspective from Leafs Ownership Bell/Rogers POV that negotiate big contracts routinely. Last summer their new GM Dubas is telling his bosses that $8.5-$9 mil X 8 years is "too rich for his blood" as that would be a massive overpayment based on Marner's current stats and market comparables so he is waiting till this summer. Now he is trying to sell $10.5 mil X 5-6 years as a good deal business wise for them to sign off on.

I don't know how you would reconcile that, and by recent reports that Shanahan has now been inserted into the process suggests MLSE BOD wants some more experience tossed into the mix. IMO

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Have to laugh at the wording in this article

The Leafs’ top line heading into training camp is John Tavares and (insert two names here) | The Star

Marner and Hyman helped Tavares to his career high in goals. Lol.

The thing I took away from this is the belief the parties are closing in on a 3 year $9.5m aav contract. So we can do all this again in 2022.

This guy lost all credibility when he said the Leafs already lost “key players” Kadri, Brown, and Marleau.