Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - Less than 2 weeks to camp

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Have to laugh at the wording in this article

The Leafs’ top line heading into training camp is John Tavares and (insert two names here) | The Star

Marner and Hyman helped Tavares to his career high in goals. Lol.

The thing I took away from this is the belief the parties are closing in on a 3 year $9.5m aav contract. So we can do all this again in 2022.

there is a belief that the parties might be closing in on a three-year contract with an average annual value of $9.5 million (U.S.)

Do you know where this guy is getting this? I call bullshit.

 

[supermann_98]

Do you know where this guy is getting this? I call bull****.

That guy is straight up pulling numours outta his ass and hitting the “there is a belief” or “it is rumoured” caveat, like all these media clowns are doing.

 

[supermann_98]

Keith Tkachuk was a master of contract headaches back when the team was in Winnipeg...Matthew is just following his fathers' footsteps.

I would love to trade Marner for Tkachuk.

1. Much easier to sign to a long term deal
2. A true power forward who hits, crashes the crease, agitates the opposition
3. Underrated passer, silky hands for a power player
4. Would fit perfectly on Matthews or Tavares wing

Tkachuk - Matthews - Johnsson
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander (don’t yell at me)
Moore - Kerfoot - Kappy
Agostino - Spezza - Mikhayev
Petan

 

[PromisedLand]

I would love to trade Marner for Tkachuk.

1. Much easier to sign to a long term deal
2. A true power forward who hits, crashes the crease, agitates the opposition
3. Underrated passer, silky hands for a power player
4. Would fit perfectly on Matthews or Tavares wing

Tkachuk - Matthews - Johnsson
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander (don’t yell at me)
Moore - Kerfoot - Kappy
Agostino - Spezza - Mikhayev
Petan

Marner>>Tkachuck

That’s a bad deal for the leafs

 

[Nineteen67]

I would love to trade Marner for Tkachuk.

1. Much easier to sign to a long term deal
2. A true power forward who hits, crashes the crease, agitates the opposition
3. Underrated passer, silky hands for a power player
4. Would fit perfectly on Matthews or Tavares wing

Tkachuk - Matthews - Johnsson
Hyman - Tavares - Nylander (don’t yell at me)
Moore - Kerfoot - Kappy
Agostino - Spezza - Mikhayev
Petan

That could make the Leafs a legit Cup contender.

 

[supermann_98]

Marner>>Tkachuck

That’s a bad deal for the leafs

If I’m picking in a hockey pool I agree wholeheartedly but when you consider the contract that comes along with it and the salary cap, there’s only so many 11m players you can have on one team

 

[Nineteen67]

Marner>>Tkachuck

That’s a bad deal for the leafs

But the Leafs would get a power forward, a much needed skill set, and cap relief. Almost a no brainer.

 

[PromisedLand]

If I’m picking in a hockey pool I agree wholeheartedly but when you consider the contract that comes along with it and the salary cap, there’s only so many 11m players you can have on one team

But the Leafs would get a power forward, a much needed skill set, and cap relief. Almost a no brainer.

Dubas should have thought about this and planned it right from the beginning; this is major league and things have impact. This isn’t Sue where you can just go with the flow.

Why should the GM’s stupidity cost team elite player like Marner? The guys that plays in every situation and excels at it

 

[supermann_98]

Dubas should have thought about this and planned it right from the beginning; this is major league and things have impact. This isn’t Sue where you can just go with the flow.

Why should the GM’s stupidity cost team elite player like Marner? The guys that plays in every situation and excels at it

Not Dubas’ fault that Marner’s ego won’t allow him to play for anything less than the highest paid player on the team.

 

[PromisedLand]

Not Dubas’ fault that Marner’s ego won’t allow him to play for anything less than the highest paid player on the team.

I have no doubt that a 10 x 5 yr deal would have been signed already. The 5 year term is an issue from team’s standpoint. Although Dubas the moron has made sure that Matthews and Nylander become UFA at the same time and a year before JT is off the books. You want Marner to be a UFA at the same time as well??

 

[supermann_98]

I have no doubt that a 10 x 5 yr deal would have been signed already. The 5 year term is an issue from team’s standpoint. Although Dubas the moron has made sure that Matthews and Nylander become UFA at the same time and a year before JT is off the books. You want Marner to be a UFA at the same time as well??

I have lots of doubt

 

[Nineteen67]

Dubas should have thought about this and planned it right from the beginning; this is major league and things have impact. This isn’t Sue where you can just go with the flow.

Why should the GM’s stupidity cost team elite player like Marner? The guys that plays in every situation and excels at it

When they signed JT the prevailing thought was that one of the big 3 would need to be moved. There’s no way in hades Calgary would make the deal, but it would be great for the Leafs.

 

[PromisedLand]

When they signed JT the prevailing thought was that one of the big 3 would need to be moved. There’s no way in hades Calgary would make the deal, but it would be great for the Leafs.

Calgary has Gaudreau already; the would make a deal for someone perceived to be a center; they may make nylander for Tkachuk deal

 

[IPS]

I think he is a very good player, but he is no Ovi, or Crosby or McDavid, I don't do everything I can to re-sign him. If I can't fit him in with the cap I currently I have, I trade him. Leafs already cleared as much cap as they can.

The salary you'd have to shed would be something like Johnsson, Kapanen, or Hyman.

They aren't key components, but you are notably weakening the team by removing one of them.

 

[nuck]

Maybe cause teams like the Leafs and Rangers can front load bonuses

If you want to change the tax system... I’d Be arguing to cap the signing bonus money

I agree that's fair, but it would be costing players a benefit too and there would likely have to be a give somewhere else.

 

[biotk]

I would love to trade Marner for Tkachuk.

As would I.

 

[hullsy47]

I think the numbers were leaked out last summer and this summer as reported by the media at various times. Only everyone is free to believe or not the sources doing the leaking and decide for themselves how much trust to put into them.

Dubas would have been much better off signing Marner last summer, and signing Matthews last, as both waiting and allowing Marner to pile up points with JT (which was a totally predictable outcome), and to go after Matthews, and now using him as his only comparable leverage against him has backfired badly on final #'s now and reflective of inexperience in handling these big multi-million dollar deals from the GM chair.

I personally wouldn't want to be in Dubas' shoes right now..

Look at it from a pure business perspective from Leafs Ownership Bell/Rogers POV that negotiate big contracts routinely. Last summer their new GM Dubas is telling his bosses that $8.5-$9 mil X 8 years is "too rich for his blood" as that would be a massive overpayment based on Marner's current stats and market comparables so he is waiting till this summer. Now he is trying to sell $10.5 mil X 5-6 years as a good deal business wise for them to sign off on.

I don't know how you would reconcile that, and by recent reports that Shanahan has now been inserted into the process suggests MLSE BOD wants some more experience tossed into the mix. IMO

Well and the BOD HAS put their input as Well

 

[ULF_55]

As would I.

There are quite a few deals that could help both teams.

I doubt it comes to that, but some package around Arvidsson and Ellis wouldn't be bad. More pieces would have to be involved.

I think Cox, I know, I know, has it right when he says the objective is to win the Cup, not win the Cup with marner.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

So can someone explain to me (I'm sure it's been explained so sorry) if there are any implications if Marner signs basically the day after the season starts? Benefits? Problems? I've seen lots of chatter about when and how Horton and Clarkson can't be put on LTIR before season starts but then other people one or the other or both can be before season starts. Does it matter? If Marner agreed to a deal tomorrow for $10M, could he be signed before training camp? Is there any problem if this stretches only a few days into the season or is something triggered instantly the day he doesn't sign after the season starts?

Sorry again, getting lost in all of this.

 

[Mess]

Well and the BOD HAS put their input as Well

Ownership is the one paying these bills and Dubas is just an employee and its not his money he is tossing around like candy.

I almost guarantee you there are members on that BOD tht are not felling that easy with Matthews contract mainly its length as their meal ticket is free to walk away in 5 years, or even if he stays that 3rd contract AAV at UFA rates are giving them nightmares already.. They make most of their money on Playoff revenue because players salaries only run for the regular season and eat up into profits so cap management is vital to icing a Cup competitive team and 1st round exits are not going to be acceptable results much longer as cheap ELC contracts end and double digit million contracts begin. Home game receipts into the 2, 3 and 4th rounds is where paying Matthews and Marner actually EARN their money as their payback in profits in their pockets much different when its <$1 mil or +$10 mil you're paying a player to deliver.

What they really don't want is a repeat of the Matthews situation with Marner also, and if they're hearing Marner is using the Matthews contract as his leverage against Dubas and he too might be free to walk away early on a short term deal, and handing out all this elite level salaries without getting not only players points but mainly TEAM Success. Other owners are much more willing to hand out contracts in places like Pittsburgh, Chicago and LA to their stars because you got your Stanley Cups up front and are paying for success and rewarding proven winners. In Toronto that script is flipped to pay me first and then see if its worth it and as businessmen the risk shouldn't be all on their side to assume here as it currently is. The only thing guaranteed here is player contracts and salaries and they're not tied to team success.

As businessmen they understand that you can only afford so many $11 mil players on the same team,because its not the money itself, its the long-term success and return on investment as in long playoff runs and consistent ones year after year that is their agenda and their expectations.

You don't need multiple $10-$11 mil players to miss the playoffs or exit in round #1, so the GM will not only be judged on the contracts he is handing out but in a results oriented business its the end results that matter most. So you can say MLSE is all in right now based on the contracts being handed out in the hopes it returns mutually beneficial player and ownership returns via on ice success.

 

[PromisedLand]

I may have to put a mod on ignore. Being a mod should never excuse troll posts. They spent to the cap when at the bottom of the league too, in case this is a shock to you.

What a terrible assessment of a post. @Mess put in logically the thought process and this is what you come up with? On ice results matter. Throwing away 1st round draft picks and money; and making claims of "we can and we will" or "i will not trade nylander" when the on ice results are mediocre looks very STUPID from the GM

 

[Stephen]

Ownership is the one paying these bills and Dubas is just an employee and its not his money he is tossing around like candy.

I almost guarantee you there are members on that BOD tht are not felling that easy with Matthews contract mainly its length as their meal ticket is free to walk away in 5 years, or even if he stays that 3rd contract AAV at UFA rates are giving them nightmares already.. They make most of their money on Playoff revenue because players salaries only run for the regular season and eat up into profits so cap management is vital to icing a Cup competitive team and 1st round exits are not going to be acceptable results much longer as cheap ELC contracts end and double digit million contracts begin. Hhome game receipts into the 2, 3 and 4th rounds is where paying Matthews and Marner actually EARN their money as their payback in profits in their pockets much different when it <$1 mil or +$10 mil you're paying a player to deliver.

What they really don't want is a repeat of the Matthews situation with Marner also, and if they're hearing Marner is using the Matthews contract as his leverage against Dubas and he too might be free to walk away early on a short term deal, and handing out all this elite level salaries without getting not only players points but mainly TEAM Success. Other owners are much more willing to hand out contracts in places like Pittsburgh, Chicago and LA to their stars because you got your Stanley Cups up front and are paying for success and rewarding proven winners. In Toronto that script is flipped to pay me first and then see if its worth it and as businessmen the risk shouldn't be all on their side to assume here as it currently is. The only thing guaranteed here is player contracts and salaries and they're not tied to team success.

As businessmen they understand that you can only afford so many $11 mil players on the same team,because its not the money itself, its the long-term success and return on investment as in long playoff runs and consistent ones year after year that is their agenda and their expectations.

You don't need multiple $10-$11 mil players to miss the playoffs or exit in round #1, so the GM will not only be judged on the contracts he is handing out but in a results oriented business its the end results that matter most. So you can say MLSE is all in right now based on the contracts being handed out in the hopes it returns mutually beneficial player and ownership returns via on ice success.

The idea that a five year deal is somehow a short term contract is completely ludicrous when the entire CBA up to this recent opt out clause has been seven years in total length.

If the Leafs have the success they plan on having, Matthews isn't going to walk.

On the other side of things, Marner's camp may simply be asking for too much from Toronto for him to continue being a Leaf. Why he seems so intent on extracting very last bit of value to validate his position in the organization is anyone's guess, but he really doesn't seem to be the right kind of player to be a franchise pillar.

 

[Legion34]

I have no doubt that a 10 x 5 yr deal would have been signed already. The 5 year term is an issue from team’s standpoint. Although Dubas the moron has made sure that Matthews and Nylander become UFA at the same time and a year before JT is off the books. You want Marner to be a UFA at the same time as well??

You have no doubt that the fictional alternate timeline in your head is 100 percent correct?

 

[PromisedLand]

You have no doubt that the fictional alternate timeline in your head is 100 percent correct?

many reports have said that AAV is not an issue it is term; Dubas' lack of foresight is at it again. May be Dubas mouth should stop writing cheques his behind cannot cash.

Lot of lip service from Dubas all talk no substance. I'd happily eat crow if am proven wrong so far Dubas has failed as a GM

 

[biotk]

There are quite a few deals that could help both teams.

I doubt it comes to that, but some package around Arvidsson and Ellis wouldn't be bad. More pieces would have to be involved.

I think Cox, I know, I know, has it right when he says the objective is to win the Cup, not win the Cup with marner.

While I agree that the objective is to win the cup, not win the cup with Marner. I also think that Marner's contract demands significantly decrease his trade value. If I was Nashville I wouldn't trade Arvidsson and Ellis for him because of his contract demands. If I was Calgary I wouldn't trade Tkachuk for him.