Salary Cap: Marner Contract Discussion - 1 week to camp ... nothing

[Kiwi]

Let me guess based on term he is the "highest paid player in the league"

No, but if your getting 5 years of service you shouldn't have the 2nd highest AAV attached to it

It's hardly a wonder Marner's digging in, I would be to

so Mike johnson puts marner behind point and rantanen.

have to agree, but aren't we lucky!

Don't forget Aho, I'd disagree about Rantanen though

 

[Kiwi]

If I'm Dubas Id say yep I screwed up on Mathews deal but I cant change that now. Do you expect me to have to overpay everybody from now on? Two wrongs wont make it right.

No they don't, but he has to show a willingness to dig in and force Marner closer to his position

Until he does do that nothing is going to change and everything we've been hearing suggests nothing has changed

 

[ZippityDooDa]

Let me guess based on term he is the "highest paid player in the league"

Would he be wrong to say yes? I get that he's not but Matthews arguably has the most valuable contract in the league.

 

[kb]

No they don't, but he has to show a willingness to dig in and force Marner closer to his position

Until he does do that nothing is going to change and everything we've been hearing suggests nothing has changed

How do you figure that? He's not signed, so how on earth is he caving here? Or are you going on pure speculation?

Ridiculous.

The first 2 contracts are well within historical comparables. How come you insist on ignoring this fact? Marner is not within any comparable.

 

[PromisedLand]

First line is likely Keller-Schmaltz-Kessel

Schmaltz gets some flack from Chicago, but he was outstanding with Arizona post-trade before being injured with 14 points in 17 games. ACL is a lot to come back from, but it will be nine months when the regular season starts.

I won’t be surprised if Keller puts up 70+ points this season.

Some risk by Chayka, but a good gamble to take locking up Keller now.

Half of the production stuff is really mental toughness and confidence. MacKinnon basically outlined how he hired a psychologist to get himself out of the rut and changed his eating habits to get more fitter.

Schmaltz was reported to be "zipping around" and is expected to open camp; I also won't be surprised if Keller put up 70+ pts.

 

[Kiwi]

How do you figure that? He's not signed, so how on earth is he caving here? Or are you going on pure speculation?

Ridiculous

We've had multiple reports from people like LeBrun and Mirtle about how aggressive we've been this offseason trying to get him resigned, far more aggressive than other organisations, doesn't sound like the hardest of lines now does It?

You should go and have a listen to Leafs lunch today, the Athletic guys are reasonably close to the front office and the belief is the AAV is going to be extremely high, like 9M+×3 high

You may chose go not believe that but if I was you I'd prepare myself, realities a real pain in the butt

 

[18leafsfan18]

even if he doesn't QoC will not be as high; teams will have to then plan for two lines.

Even if you ignore Kessel; look at MacKinnon. He took time to get it going but as soon as Rantanen got on that line Mack exploded. Now with Kadri as their 2C; assuming Kadri can find his 30G 50P game; I expect Mack to go super saiyan next season.

Nylander has always had Matthews next to him; you looking down on Keller without contextual analysis and looking at pure "rates" based statistic is incorrect.

Hell even take Marner as an example; Marner benefits not only playing with Tavares but also because of having Matthews in the line up as opposition has to spread out their defensive strategy (similarly Matthews also benefits).

Only thing with Marner though is that Marner was pacing around 80 to 90 points without JT in 2017-2018 season; sample is of 40 odd games not large enough to fully accept it but also not small enough to fully reject it.

Anyway, getting back to your question even of Kessel doesn't play with Keller there is going to be positive effects on Keller's stats because of having Kessel in the line up.

Kessel was almost a ppg player with the Leafs with absolutely CRAPPY forward depth

That exculated quickly.

I mentioned that I should have said more proven. Nylander also doesn't rely on the PP for his points as much as keller

 

[ZippityDooDa]

We've had multiple reports from people like LeBrun and Mirtle about how aggressive we've been this offseason trying to get him resigned, far more aggressive than other organisations, doesn't sound like the hardest of lines now does It?

You should go and have a listen to Leafs lunch today, the Athletic guys are reasonably close to the front office and the belief is the AAV is going to be extremely high, like 9M+×3 high

You may chose go not believe that but if I was you I'd prepare myself, realities a real pain in the butt

You're just being a negative-Nancy-boy

 

[18leafsfan18]

First line is likely Keller-Schmaltz-Kessel

Schmaltz gets some flack from Chicago, but he was outstanding with Arizona post-trade before being injured with 14 points in 17 games. ACL is a lot to come back from, but it will be nine months when the regular season starts.

I won’t be surprised if Keller puts up 70+ points this season.

Some risk by Chayka, but a good gamble to take locking up Keller now.

Sounds like he has a chance to hit 70. Very similar situation to Nylander (when signed).

Nylander had proven more consistent points totals and not relying as heavily on PP points

But fans on here will still call this keller deal a good one and the Nylander deal a bad one.

Always moving the goalposts to "prove" their point.

 

[18leafsfan18]

We were both joking but you took my joke seriously and seemed to get cranky. Miscommunication is easy on text.

Enough beating all these dead horses, let the results speak for themselves. October needs to hurry the hell up!

I can definitely agree with the miscommunication and October needing to hurry up.

 

[Nineteen67]

that's why I don't sign a replacement player. It took William's 6.9 mill av on dec 1st to get us to 10 mill cap hit. if you can get the caphit to 10.5 and want to give up four 1sts, for two thirds of a season. I think you wouldn't last too long.

The AAV was prorated over the number of days used but would it be for compensation purposes?
I doubt it.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You also have to keep in mind the dramatic tax advantages you showed.

So like I said. 7.15 for 47 pts
You think. 14.3 for 94 pts

In saying that Dubas is a horrible gm, that does not equate to saying that every other gm in the league is a genius. Some of them are morons as well.

The fact that you need to compare Dubas to the moron GM's... well... that speaks volumes in and of itself.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

7x11.016 heard it here first

 

[18leafsfan18]

No, but if your getting 5 years of service you shouldn't have the 2nd highest AAV attached to it

It's hardly a wonder Marner's digging in, I would be to



Don't forget Aho, I'd disagree about Rantanen though

He has the 3rd highest AAV.

Edit: As of right now. And that will drop as new years and players sign.

What should he have gotten for his 5 year deal and what should he have gotten for 8 ?

I've still seen no evidence of why his contract is so bad.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Would he be wrong to say yes? I get that he's not but Matthews arguably has the most valuable contract in the league.

What do you mean by most valuable contact ? (Actually curious, not trying to be condescending)

 

[mouser]

Sounds like he has a chance to hit 70. Very similar situation to Nylander (when signed).

Nylander had proven more consistent points totals and not relying as heavily on PP points

But fans on here will still call this keller deal a good one and the Nylander deal a bad one.

Always moving the goalposts to "prove" their point.

I think it’s going to take a few years before any of us can really judge either contract to be “good or bad”.

I imagine a lot of the opinions between the two contracts are signing a RFA to max term a year before their ELC expires vs losing a third of a season (which felt like even more with Nylanders slow start).

Personally I don’t view the Nylander contract as “bad”. I do think it was bad that it took a third of a missed season to arrive at that deal though. I don’t necessarily blame the Leafs for that situation because it takes two to tango, and I’m very familiar with the standoff. Still fair to ask if the team could have handled the Nylander situation better.

 

[Kiwi]

He has the 3rd highest AAV.

What should he have gotten for his 5 year deal and what should he have gotten for 8 ?

I've still seen no evidence of why his contract is so bad.

I'd have thought that with the cap jump that McDavid's deal would have been pretty close considering he's nowhere near as good a player, I think I'm being a bit generous but I'm a nice guy

Unfortunately we were within 1M on AAV and got 3 less UFA years, that would be your evidence right there

You're just being a negative-Nancy-boy

Being liked is for boring people

 

[ZippityDooDa]

He has the 3rd highest AAV.

What should he have gotten for his 5 year deal and what should he have gotten for 8 ?

I've still seen no evidence of why his contract is so bad.

IMO it should have been 11.634 x 8. Don't think too many would complain. Maybe 10 x 5? Tavares earned his contract, we're paying Matthews based on potential which is risky.

Plus as Kiwi stated, management set a precedent paying Matthews more than Tavares so now Marner wants the same. Dominoes lol.

 

[ZippityDooDa]

What do you mean by most valuable contact ? (Actually curious, not trying to be condescending)

His current contract at an 8 year term would make him the highest paid. (Not trying to be negative)

Also, I think the Nylander contract is fine, just a shame with how it had to go down.

 

[kb]

I'd have thought that with the cap jump that McDavid's deal would have been pretty close considering he's nowhere near as good a player, I think I'm being a bit generous but I'm a nice guy

Unfortunately we were within 1M on AAV and got 3 less UFA years, that would be your evidence right there



Being liked is for boring people

Were AMs and CMs contracts signed at the same time and with the same cap?

No. The equivalent for AM would have been 13.8 million on the then rumoured $83 million dollar cap.

Keep digging,

 

[Einzakin]

IMO it should have been 11.634 x 8. Don't think too many would complain. Maybe 10 x 5? Tavares earned his contract, we're paying Matthews based on potential which is risky.

Plus as Kiwi stated, management set a precedent paying Matthews more than Tavares so now Marner wants the same. Dominoes lol.

We're paying Matthews based on he would be gone with an offer sheet if we didn't lol.

Marner deserves not a dollar over 10, but his annoying Dad will get him slightly more, all the while tarnishing the family's reputation. Hopefully Mitch can regain it.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Matthews is the meal ticket not Tavares.

Both are franchise centers regardless. Marners a winger.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I think it’s going to take a few years before any of us can really judge either contract to be “good or bad”.

I imagine a lot of the opinions between the two contracts are signing a RFA to max term a year before their ELC expires vs losing a third of a season (which felt like even more with Nylanders slow start).

Personally I don’t view the Nylander contract as “bad”. I do think it was bad that it took a third of a missed season to arrive at that deal though. I don’t necessarily blame the Leafs for that situation because it takes two to tango, and I’m very familiar with the standoff. Still fair to ask if the team could have handled the Nylander situation better.

Completely agree. Posters love to crap on the nylander contract and say this one is great. Either the contacts are both bad or both good or cant judge yet.

 

[Legion34]

In saying that Dubas is a horrible gm, that does not equate to saying that every other gm in the league is a genius. Some of them are morons as well.

The fact that you need to compare Dubas to the moron GM's... well... that speaks volumes in and of itself.

Soooo less than 14.3 is good?

 

[18leafsfan18]

I'd have thought that with the cap jump that McDavid's deal would have been pretty close considering he's nowhere near as good a player, I think I'm being a bit generous but I'm a nice guy

Unfortunately we were within 1M on AAV and got 3 less UFA years, that would be your evidence right there



Being liked is for boring people

So no suggestions on contacts.

How much aav is that extra 3 years worth ?