Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

[ULF_55]

I’m really hoping Mattinen can grab a spot with the leafs. Him and Grebby. I feel really excited to watch camp because there are spots up for grabs

IMO we should be willing to accept mistakes, and embrace learning opportunities, even at the cost of a few points.

Giordano is probably better than Niemela, but I'd chose Topi over Gio.

 

[LeafChief]

Very, very excited to see Grebyonkin at camp. I think he's going to surprise a lot of people, especially the people who don't pay attention to prospects.

 

[mistaclick]

I just hope Greb and Niemela don’t mind playing in the AHL. Would hate for them to go back to their countries if they don’t crack the NHL this year. I’m worried Niemela isn’t physically ready. I was probably one of the highest on him as a prospect (watched almost every game in his record breaking U20 year in Finland), but I have serious reservations regarding his size and physical play in his own zone. I don’t know if we can get a top-4 guy out of him anymore. #5-6 with PP usage maybe.

 

[ULF_55]

I just hope Greb and Niemela don’t mind playing in the AHL. Would hate for them to go back to their countries if they don’t crack the NHL this year. I’m worried Niemela isn’t physically ready. I was probably one of the highest on him as a prospect (watched almost every game in his record breaking U20 year in Finland), but I have serious reservations regarding his size and physical play in his own zone. I don’t know if we can get a top-4 guy out of him anymore. #5-6 with PP usage maybe.

Remember one Leafs defender, maybe Karl Pilar (anyone confirm) said he found the NHL somewhat easier than the AHL because there was better structure, and the players knew what they were supposed to be doing.

Karel Pilař - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[barilko05]

Remember one Leafs defender, maybe Karl Pilar (anyone confirm) said he found the NHL somewhat easier than the AHL because there was better structure, and the players knew what they were supposed to be doing.

Karel Pilař - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I've heard and read a lot of goalies feel that way as well. That's why I never get excited about amazing seasons from AHL goalies. It rarely translates to NHL stardom. (*cough* GARRET SPARKS *cough*)

 

[freshwind]

Remember one Leafs defender, maybe Karl Pilar (anyone confirm) said he found the NHL somewhat easier than the AHL because there was better structure, and the players knew what they were supposed to be doing.

Karel Pilař - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

my favourite Pilar quote after a risky o/t goal he scored - "I play crazy, not stupid"

if not for the heart issues i think karel would have become a fan fave ...

 

[ULF_55]

my favourite Pilar quote after a risky o/t goal he scored - "I play crazy, not stupid"

if not for the heart issues i think karel would have become a fan fave ...

It is fleeting, career moreso.

 

[IrishInOntario]

Very, very excited to see Grebyonkin at camp. I think he's going to surprise a lot of people, especially the people who don't pay attention to prospects.

It would be such a nice steal to get another Ilya Mikheyev type scoring talent out of Grebyonkin, with a little bit more jam. He's only 21 years old. If he comes in during the first year, splits his time in the NHL and AHL, gets his feet wet and pots a couple goals in the NHL in 2024, maybe he's able to come back in 2025, make Calle Jarnkrok expendable as the 3RW, save Toronto some money on the cap and put up 15 goals and 30 points playing behind Marner and Nylander.

I'm envisioning a 2025 roster in which Jarnkrok and Kampf are off the books, Tavares extends on a relatively team friendly deal and money exists to add a solid 2C, allowing Tavares to start moving down the lineup in a 3C role, where he'll still be better than most of his competition on any given night for the next 3 years. The framework of that 2025 lineup would look something like...

Domi-Matthews-Marner
Knies-Addition-Nylander
Cowan-Tavares-Grebyonkin
McMann-Holmberg-Dewar
Steeves

If you can swing a trade around Robertson, Minten and 1st round pick, or a free agent to add a 60 point 2C in the 26-30 years old range, you have the potential makings of a deep forward group that you can fit under the salary cap.

 

[Fogelhund]

Noting, it’s Grebenkin now, not Grebyonkin. Strange I know, but it’s how he wants his name spelt in English.

 

[Thornbury]

It would be such a nice steal to get another Ilya Mikheyev type scoring talent out of Grebyonkin, with a little bit more jam. He's only 21 years old. If he comes in during the first year, splits his time in the NHL and AHL, gets his feet wet and pots a couple goals in the NHL in 2024, maybe he's able to come back in 2025, make Calle Jarnkrok expendable as the 3RW, save Toronto some money on the cap and put up 15 goals and 30 points playing behind Marner and Nylander.

I'm envisioning a 2025 roster in which Jarnkrok and Kampf are off the books, Tavares extends on a relatively team friendly deal and money exists to add a solid 2C, allowing Tavares to start moving down the lineup in a 3C role, where he'll still be better than most of his competition on any given night for the next 3 years. The framework of that 2025 lineup would look something like...

Domi-Matthews-Marner
Knies-Addition-Nylander
Cowan-Tavares-Grebyonkin
McMann-Holmberg-Dewar
Steeves

If you can swing a trade around Robertson, Minten and 1st round pick, or a free agent to add a 60 point 2C in the 26-30 years old range, you have the potential makings of a deep forward group that you can fit under the salary cap.

No spot for MInten?

No spot for MInten?

Sorry, missed your trade proposal.

 

[fahad203]

Anyone from 2020 draft going to make it this year?

We had like 12 picks that year. 1st was unfortunate but someone from other 10 or 11 gotta make it right ?

Right now that draft is trending towards a total flop

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Not this year but Niemela will likely get the odd call up this year and be an option for next year.

Hirvonen needs to have a healthy bounce back year after having 2 significant injuries. Still has a chance to be a bottom 6er at some point.

Ahktyamov has been developing well and is getting his first taste of American ice. Still a chance he could get NHL games in the next couple years.

Tverberg has been good at every level he's played at. Has a chance to compete for a bottom 6 role likely in 2026

Anyone from 2020 draft going to make it this year?

We had like 12 picks that year. 1st was unfortunate but someone from other 10 or 11 gotta make it right ?

Right now that draft is trending towards a total flop

 

[Thornbury]

Not this year but Niemela will likely get the odd call up this year and be an option for next year.

Hirvonen needs to have a healthy bounce back year after having 2 significant injuries. Still has a chance to be a bottom 6er at some point.

Ahktyamov has been developing well and is getting his first taste of American ice. Still a chance he could get NHL games in the next couple years.

Tverberg has been good at every level he's played at. Has a chance to compete for a bottom 6 role likely in 2026

That draft looked really strong, and it still has promise, but we need to see a couple of the guys with potential hit over the next couple seasons.

 

[fahad203]

Not this year but Niemela will likely get the odd call up this year and be an option for next year.

Hirvonen needs to have a healthy bounce back year after having 2 significant injuries. Still has a chance to be a bottom 6er at some point.

Ahktyamov has been developing well and is getting his first taste of American ice. Still a chance he could get NHL games in the next couple years.

Tverberg has been good at every level he's played at. Has a chance to compete for a bottom 6 role likely in 2026

By now I expected to see some progression. Considering there are few players we drafted years after are not pushing for roles

 

[notbias]

By now I expected to see some progression. Considering there are few players we drafted years after are not pushing for roles

If they stop signing fringe players like Reaves/Dewar/Hakanpaa maybe they will compete for a job.

They are progressing just fine.

After Hrivonen was selected (our first pick after Amirov), only 7 players have played at least 40 games.

Pretty much anyone with playing time in the NHL is a 4th liner, bottom pairing D, or goalie, it is a lot easier to bring those kinds of guys on a roster.

Most have played on non-playoff teams too.

 

[ULF_55]

Noting, it’s Grebenkin now, not Grebyonkin. Strange I know, but it’s how he wants his name spelt in English.

Grebyonkin - in Russia
Grebenkin - in North America

Note: He was playing injured during their playoffs, on painkillers, and serious enough that he may not even be ready for training camp. So his results in the playoffs can be understood, without people dumping/jumping on his potential.


Both work for me ...

2024 TLN Maple Leafs Prospect Rankings: #6 Nikita Grebyonkin

<em><strong>This article is brought to you by bet365!</strong></em>...

theleafsnation.com

I know this is a fluff, pro-Leafs piece, but I have permission to be optimistic from the Universe.

The reason I called him a fan favourite earlier in the article is because he brings all of the elements that appeal to fans. Standing at 6-foot-2 and 192 pounds, he possesses a unique combination of size, speed, and toughness. His skating is what pops out before anything else, bringing a north-south style as he rushes up the ice and keeps the defencemen guessing his next move, whether that’s a low rebound attempt, a pick of the corner, or a pass to a teammate. He’s more likely to show up on the scoresheet under the assists column but he particularly ramped up his goal-scoring efforts last season with almost as many goals as he had assists (19 goals and 22 assists). Standing at 6-foot-2 and having speed as your main threat is always going to be something that appeases fans, and it’s twice as intimidating for the opposing defencemen when they see that kind of speed barreling at them in the form of a bigger player.

The reason I called him a fan favourite earlier in the article is because he brings all of the elements that appeal to fans. Standing at 6-foot-2 and 192 pounds, he possesses a unique combination of size, speed, and toughness. His skating is what pops out before anything else, bringing a north-south style as he rushes up the ice and keeps the defencemen guessing his next move, whether that’s a low rebound attempt, a pick of the corner, or a pass to a teammate. He’s more likely to show up on the scoresheet under the assists column but he particularly ramped up his goal-scoring efforts last season with almost as many goals as he had assists (19 goals and 22 assists). Standing at 6-foot-2 and having speed as your main threat is always going to be something that appeases fans, and it’s twice as intimidating for the opposing defencemen when they see that kind of speed barreling at them in the form of a bigger player.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1809401769396498692

 

[genk]

Grebyonkin has been hot garbage these playoffs apart from the opening series vs Amur.
He started with loads of ice time, but his responsibilities and TOI have gradually declined commensurate to his level of play (and rightfully so). Same for disappointing high-scoring teammate Karpov.

Meanwhile Blackhawks pick Kantserov and Silantyev have been revelations. Unlike Grebyonkin they've upped their games exponentially during crunch time so Metallurg is rightfully going with them.

Let's hope Grebyonkin can get his **** together. He’s better player than he's currently showing.

He might be injured, but coach Razin said he isnt. So who knows.

But you might wanna actually watch games and evaluate a players' current performances before resorting to the predictable "(Insert favorite Russian prospect) isn't getting playing time? The KHL is punishing him!
If people did this they'd realize Salavat wasn't benching Amirov, he was being diagnosed with cancer. Sibir wasn't punishing Ovchinnikov, he's just not very good.
Pretty much only SKA does that stuff anyways.

It's okay to critisize prospects instead of making up conspiracy theoroies to justify their poor play. Just saying.

About a third. Saw a lot of the Spartak series. Grebyonkin was given much responsibility but was thoroughly invisible.
And its not just him. #1 winger Karpov's role has been reduced for the same reason. They've lost offensive responsibility to Kantserov and Silantyev who've been really good lately.

It's the playoffs. You go with whats working. There's no room for mediocrity.

Time to eat crow, admit you were wrong, and apologize to Mr. Grebenkin.

 

[Americanadian]

Not this year but Niemela will likely get the odd call up this year and be an option for next year.

Hirvonen needs to have a healthy bounce back year after having 2 significant injuries. Still has a chance to be a bottom 6er at some point.

It's wild how Ottawa trading up to get Kleven and the Leafs taking Niemela/Hirvonen with the 2 picks was seen as a huge win by the Leafs and now Kleven might end up the only NHLer.

 

[LeafChief]

It's wild how Ottawa trading up to get Kleven and the Leafs taking Niemela/Hirvonen with the 2 picks was seen as a huge win by the Leafs and now Kleven might end up the only NHLer.

Kleven hasn't been able to stick around on a bottom feeder that has sold at the deadline each of the past few seasons. That's wild.

 

[htpwn]

Noting, it’s Grebenkin now, not Grebyonkin. Strange I know, but it’s how he wants his name spelt in English.

Ah, the joys of the letter ё which both is and isn't part of the Russian alphabet:

Except for a brief period after World War II, the use of ⟨ё⟩ was never obligatory in standard Russian orthography. By and large, it is used only in dictionaries and in pedagogical literature intended for children and students of Russian as a second language. Otherwise, ⟨е⟩ is used, and ⟨ё⟩ occurs only when it is necessary to avoid ambiguity (such as to distinguish between все ("everybody") and всё ("everything") when it is not obvious from the context) or in words (principally proper nouns) whose pronunciation may not be familiar to the reader. Recent recommendations (2006) from the Russian Language Institute are to use ⟨ё⟩ in proper nouns to avoid an incorrect pronunciation.[7] It is permitted, however, to mark ⟨ё⟩ whenever it occurs,[7] which is the preference of some Russian authors and periodicals.

The fact that ⟨ё⟩ is frequently replaced with ⟨е⟩ in print often causes some confusion to both Russians and non-Russians, as it makes it more difficult for Russian words and names to be transcribed. One recurring problem is with Russian surnames, as both -ев (-ev/-yev) and -ёв (-yov/-ov) are common endings. Thus, the English-speaking world knows two leaders of the former Soviet Union as Khrushchev and Gorbachev, but their surnames end in Russian with -ёв, better transcribed -yov/-ov (which is why many English-speakers pronounce these names as if they end in -ov but they spell them with -ev).

...​

It is thought that the letter ⟨ё⟩ is found in at least 2500 surnames used in Russia and other states of the former USSR. It is common for a person who has one of these surnames to possess some legal documents (passports, identification cards, marriage and birth certificates, property ownership papers, etc.) where the name is written with a ⟨ё⟩, and some that use the simple ⟨е⟩ instead. In other situations, a child's birth certificate may have a ⟨ё⟩ and the parents' identity papers all have ⟨е⟩. On occasion such mismatches caused problems to citizens who receive inheritance or complete property transactions

Yo (Cyrillic) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Americanadian]

Kleven hasn't been able to stick around on a bottom feeder that has sold at the deadline each of the past few seasons. That's wild.

LD who finished out the season after he went pro (22-23) then played his first full pro year in the AHL before finishing out the season last year in the NHL. He is projected as their day 1 3LD this season. Not sure what's wild about that - seems like a normal trajectory.

 

[notbias]

LD who finished out the season after he went pro (22-23) then played his first full pro year in the AHL before finishing out the season last year in the NHL. He is projected as their day 1 3LD this season. Not sure what's wild about that - seems like a normal trajectory.

He wouldn't crack our lineup is the point... it's a little easier to make a roster when the team sucks.

 

[Americanadian]

He wouldn't crack our lineup is the point... it's a little easier to make a roster when the team sucks.

Agree - he has less competition for 3LD in Ottawa.

There is still a strong chance he’s the only player of the 3 in that trade that sticks in the NHL.

 

[Stephen]

Kleven hasn't been able to stick around on a bottom feeder that has sold at the deadline each of the past few seasons. That's wild.

Kleven was made fun of when drafted with that Leaf pick but he’s definitely rounding out into an NHL possible big body defender. These kind of guys just get jobs because they can project onto bottom pairing roles. A Simon Benoit is more useful at the bottom of the depth chart than a Victor Mete for example.