Prospect Info: Marlies & Prospect Discussion

[Apex Predator]

Did you mean Leivo?

Tverberg doesn't belong in the same sentence as Hildeby or Grebenkin at this point. Niemela put up more points than Tverberg did last year... same age, but Niemela is a D.

Hildeby has been excellent in the SHL, and had very good rookie numbers last year in the AHL. He's got a ways to go still, but he is showing promise for sure.

Grebenkin however is someone I think we should be excited about. Here are the all time 20 year stats records in the KHL.

20-Year Old KHL Players - Regular Season Stats

20-year old KHL player stats. KHL player statistics segmented by age group.

www.quanthockey.com

His points totals from last year are 5th all time. PPG 14th all time. Of course some guys don't make despite such production... such as Korshkov, but he is around Panarin level of production at the same age.

Of the guys you list, Bracco should have been a useful NHLer...except for the issues there, which seemed to be his downfall.

Yes auto correct changed it to Leibovitz.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I’m not here to disagree with you because I think both become NHL players. We’ve said things in the past about this prospect is getting slept on (or a variation of that saying)and then they don’t amount to anything

I remember how much people were sleeping on Josh Leibovitz, Matt Finn, Jermey Bracco, Dmitry Timashov, Filip Kral,Michael Koster.

Now it’s Ryan Tvberg,Topi, Hilldeby and Grebonkin. I hope these guys work out.

It's more to do with the fact that publications don't list one of your top 10 prospects in a ranking. Kinda discredits the publication if they dont even know who he is.

 

[ULF_55]

I’m not here to disagree with you because I think both become NHL players. We’ve said things in the past about this prospect is getting slept on (or a variation of that saying)and then they don’t amount to anything

I remember how much people were sleeping on Josh Leibovitz, Matt Finn, Jermey Bracco, Dmitry Timashov, Filip Kral,Michael Koster.

Now it’s Ryan Tvberg,Topi, Hilldeby and Grebonkin. I hope these guys work out.

Not sure Tverberg is in the same category as the players who have done well in men's leagues?

Against men is closer than playing against boys.

Timashov actually played for more than 1 NHL team. Didn't make it to regular status, but he wasn't a flop.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1827737002516632057

Ple-so-slick with it?

 

[meefer]

​

The Toronto Maple Leafs' "NHL Pipeline Ranking" is rapidly rising, according to The Athletic's Corey Pronman.​

There's no question that the Maple Leafs have been hard up for draft capital in recent years after former GM Kyle Dubas emptied the cupboard prior to being relieved of his duties in favour of new GM Brad Treliving, who was hired during the 2023 off-season.

Last year, around this time, The Athletic had the Maple Leafs ranked 27th in the NHL Pipeline Rankings. However, this year, thanks to the growth of several key young players within the organization, including Matthew Knies, Easton Cowan and Fraser Minten, along with the selection of right-shot D Ben Danford in this year's draft, Pronman has the Leafs moving up to the 22nd rank among the 32 NHL franchises.
A big reason for the boost in Pronman's rankings was the emergence of Easton Cowan and the breakout year that he had in the OHL last season. His 96-point campaign earned him regular season MVP honours, and his 34-point playoffs led to the kid from Mount Brydges, Ontario winning an OHL championship and being named Playoffs MVP as well.​

​

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5633124/2024/08/27/toronto-maple-leafs-nhl-prospect-pipeline-rankings-2024/?source=user_shared_article

Regarding Grebyonkin: "He makes a lot of difficult plays with the puck from the perimeter and in traffic. Grebenkin was never highly touted as a prospect because of his heavy stride. He’s still slow by NHL standards, but his great compete level, ability to win pucks and play at the net have helped him succeed versus men."

I believe I've read here that Grebs is a a fast, skilled skater. Is Pronman off in his analysis?

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Niemela put up more points than Tverberg did last year... same age, but Niemela is a D.

Niemela also played 22 more games than Tverberg.

 

[conFABulator]

Did you mean Leivo?

Tverberg doesn't belong in the same sentence as Hildeby or Grebenkin at this point. Niemela put up more points than Tverberg did last year... same age, but Niemela is a D.

Hildeby has been excellent in the SHL, and had very good rookie numbers last year in the AHL. He's got a ways to go still, but he is showing promise for sure.

Grebenkin however is someone I think we should be excited about. Here are the all time 20 year stats records in the KHL.

20-Year Old KHL Players - Regular Season Stats

20-year old KHL player stats. KHL player statistics segmented by age group.

www.quanthockey.com

His points totals from last year are 5th all time. PPG 14th all time. Of course some guys don't make despite such production... such as Korshkov, but he is around Panarin level of production at the same age.

Of the guys you list, Bracco should have been a useful NHLer...except for the issues there, which seemed to be his downfall.

Are people sleeping on Quillan? It could be because his ceiling is not that high and he could be nothing more than a 4LC, however I feel like he has a very good chance to be a good 4LC.

Good size
Good compete level
Good hockey IQ
Skates well
Top ECAC defensive player
Frozen Four MVP (winning goal in OT too)

Having him at 4C and Minten at 3C could be a very nice formula in a few years.

 

[Fogelhund]

Niemela also played 22 more games than Tverberg.

True, but the point was Tverberg's production doesn't scream surefire top 9 forward at this point.

Are people sleeping on Quillan? It could. E because his ceiling is not that high and he could be nothing more than a 4LC, however I feel like he has a very good chance to be a good 4LC.

Good size
Good compete level
Good hockey IQ
Skates well
Top ECAC defensive player
Frozen Four MVP (winning goal in OT too)

Having him at 4C and Minten at 3C could be a very nice formula in a few years.

The guy who played 10 games for the Marlies last year, and had one point?

Small sample size, but he's not in the category of surefire NHL players. He's not in the trash heap either, just a guy who's there, and has opportunity, but hasn't shown much to prove he's going to be a NHL player yet.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

True, but the point was Tverberg's production doesn't scream surefire top 9 forward at this point.



The guy who played 10 games for the Marlies last year, and had one point?

Small sample size, but he's not in the category of surefire NHL players. He's not in the trash heap either, just a guy who's there, and has opportunity, but hasn't shown much to prove he's going to be a NHL player yet.

*Gets 84 points in 80 NCAA games over the past 2 years

You: Omg he only got a single point in 7 games at the end of the season on a new team in a new league? Wow, how could anybody project him to be an NHL player?!


Seriously fogul? That's gotta be the laziest, most half-assed attempt at projecting I've ever seen. You couldn't even scroll far enough to see how he did the rest of the same year.

 

[conFABulator]

The guy who played 10 games for the Marlies last year, and had one point?

Small sample size, but he's not in the category of surefire NHL players. He's not in the trash heap either, just a guy who's there, and has opportunity, but hasn't shown much to prove he's going to be a NHL player yet.

I agree with the assessment and don't see him as a surefire NHLer. He does have an opportunity though and because of the role he is suited for, I imagine people will continue to sleep on him. His points won't grab anyone's attentions. He blocks shots, PKs, strong defensively and a good leader. We need these guys for under a million per year on the big league roster rather than paying Kampf $2.4M.

 

[WTFMAN99]

True, but the point was Tverberg's production doesn't scream surefire top 9 forward at this point.



The guy who played 10 games for the Marlies last year, and had one point?

Small sample size, but he's not in the category of surefire NHL players. He's not in the trash heap either, just a guy who's there, and has opportunity, but hasn't shown much to prove he's going to be a NHL player yet.

*Gets 84 points in 80 NCAA games over the past 2 years

You: Omg he only got a single point in 7 games at the end of the season on a new team in a new league? Wow, how could anybody project him to be an NHL player?!


Seriously fogul? That's gotta be the laziest, most half-assed attempt at projecting I've ever seen. You couldn't even scroll far enough to see how he did the rest of the same year.

Tverberg's durability is probably my biggest question

Quillan will be interesting, going to give him a long hard look at pre-season and see where he's at, maybe he needs half a year with the Marlies to adjust to the pros like Bozak did? Although Bozak was one of the best NCAA finds of all time, if Quillan can be a 3C or 4C that play it well, not just a space filler, that's a win. We need centres so badly in this organization.

 

[SprDaVE]

Tverberg's durability is probably my biggest question

Quillan will be interesting, going to give him a long hard look at pre-season and see where he's at, maybe he needs half a year with the Marlies to adjust to the pros like Bozak did? Although Bozak was one of the best NCAA finds of all time, if Quillan can be a 3C or 4C that play it well, not just a space filler, that's a win. We need centres so badly in this organization.

He never got injured in NCAA as far as I know, played 2 seasons in a row without missing a game, albeit they are only 35 game seasons. I think he needs more than 1 big injury to have his durability questioned... injuries can happen to anyone regardless.

 

[WTFMAN99]

He never got injured in NCAA as far as I know, played 2 seasons in a row without missing a game, albeit they are only 35 game seasons. I think he needs more than 1 big injury to have his durability questioned... injuries can happen to anyone regardless.

Memory is admittedly getting worse with age but it kept feeling like all the prospect guys would be posting Tvberg was out for a game here and there with an injury or something.

I know he was week to week with an upper body injury but only 46GP this year isn't ideal.

 

[Fogelhund]

*Gets 84 points in 80 NCAA games over the past 2 years

You: Omg he only got a single point in 7 games at the end of the season on a new team in a new league? Wow, how could anybody project him to be an NHL player?!


Seriously fogul? That's gotta be the laziest, most half-assed attempt at projecting I've ever seen. You couldn't even scroll far enough to see how he did the rest of the same year.

It was 10 games including playoffs, it was one point.

Yes, I am fully aware of how many points he had in the NCAA, and I've read quite a bit about him. I'm aware that his NHLe, based on his conference works out to about 20 points projection in the NHL. That being said, if he makes it, it's not going to be as a points producer anyway. It's going to be as a bottom six guy, who can PK, is defensively sound, and can play some physicality.

And speaking of lazy, half-assed comments, surely you missed the context of the whole discussion. Which was players that were being slept on, who could become good NHLers. Quillan is just a guy with an opportunity, who if all goes well at the pro level, he might become a bottom six C, and likely a 4C. But he's got some big adjustments to make for the pro-level, and at least needs to have some success at the AHL level first. He's got a lot to prove, before we put him in the category of slept on guys, who are surefire NHLer's. That's the context of this discussion, that you decided to jump all over.

 

[SprDaVE]

Memory is admittedly getting worse with age but it kept feeling like all the prospect guys would be posting Tvberg was out for a game here and there with an injury or something.

I know he was week to week with an upper body injury but only 46GP this year isn't ideal.

He came back and re-aggravated the injury and they shut him down. Not ideal but it happens.

 

[Fogelhund]

Tverberg's durability is probably my biggest question

Quillan will be interesting, going to give him a long hard look at pre-season and see where he's at, maybe he needs half a year with the Marlies to adjust to the pros like Bozak did? Although Bozak was one of the best NCAA finds of all time, if Quillan can be a 3C or 4C that play it well, not just a space filler, that's a win. We need centres so badly in this organization.

I think bringing up Bozak is a good example. He put up 34 points, in 41 games as a NCAA rookie. Quillan put up 9 points in 36 games. Yes we need C's, and I like what I read about Quillan, but in the context of the discussion I was involved in, he's not a guy who is being slept on, and a surefire NHLer.... I sure hope he becomes one though.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think bringing up Bozak is a good example. He put up 34 points, in 41 games as a NCAA rookie. Quillan put up 9 points in 36 games. Yes we need C's, and I like what I read about Quillan, but in the context of the discussion I was involved in, he's not a guy who is being slept on, and a surefire NHLer.... I sure hope he becomes one though.

Although Bozak in his prime was probably a solid 2C

That maybe impacts what we think Quillan can be...3 or 4C maybe attainable but the work will need to come in.

Best for us to get eyes on him in pre-season and he got some pro money so hopefully he re-invested it into himself and had a strong summer.

The rest is just likely going to come down to getting reps at the pro level, from there he sinks or swims.

 

[4thline]

I think bringing up Bozak is a good example. He put up 34 points, in 41 games as a NCAA rookie. Quillan put up 9 points in 36 games.

Not a fair comparison- Quillan's freshman year was U20 after a single BCHL season, Bozak's was U22 after 3 full BCHL seasons.

Bozak was a unicorn of a lateblooming free wallet, and I'm not arguing to project that out of Quillan but... he's ahead of where TB was by a year or two.

Similarly with Tverberg- both guys profile stylistically a lot like Moore and Hyman. Tenacious, detail oriented. And the new guys numbers are in line with the old (if not better). It would be great to get another

 

[mydnyte]

Regarding Grebyonkin: "He makes a lot of difficult plays with the puck from the perimeter and in traffic. Grebenkin was never highly touted as a prospect because of his heavy stride. He’s still slow by NHL standards, but his great compete level, ability to win pucks and play at the net have helped him succeed versus men."

I believe I've read here that Grebs is a a fast, skilled skater. Is Pronman off in his analysis?

Pronman is always 'off' and has the worst takes i've ever seen on Leaf prospects.
i.e. one of Minten's greatest strengths is a top end hockey IQ, and Pron has him as below average.

 

[mydnyte]

Quillan would be a Kampf replacement at #4C as he has high end defensive acumen, and if he has any touch it would be a bonus.
He also looked pretty good in the frozen 4 beating out Knies, who looked far worse in that tourney to me.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Pronman is always 'off' and has the worst takes i've ever seen on Leaf prospects.
i.e. one of Minten's greatest strengths is a top end hockey IQ, and Pron has him as below average.

Was it Wheeler or Pronman that said Mikhayev's speed was average or a concern when we had signed him initially?

I remember seeing him for the first time in game action and it was just like...did you watch him? who is feeding you this info?

 

[weems]

Not a fair comparison- Quillan's freshman year was U20 after a single BCHL season, Bozak's was U22 after 3 full BCHL seasons.

Bozak was a unicorn of a lateblooming free wallet, and I'm not arguing to project that out of Quillan but... he's ahead of where TB was by a year or two.

Similarly with Tverberg- both guys profile stylistically a lot like Moore and Hyman. Tenacious, detail oriented. And the new guys numbers are in line with the old (if not better). It would be great to get another

Yes Tverberg is a player that should not be too heavily scouted by stats.
He will be a energy 3rd/4th line guy that hopefully can kill penalties while being a consistent forechecker and hard worker.

 

[mydnyte]

Was it Wheeler or Pronman that said Mikhayev's speed was average or a concern when we had signed him initially?

I remember seeing him for the first time in game action and it was just like...did you watch him? who is feeding you this info?

just read Pronman's assessment of our prospect skating skills, he lists almost all of them as below average and that is far from accurate, unless he thinks McKinnon is average, and McDavid is above average.

 

[Fogelhund]

Indeed, Tverberg and Quillan are likely 4th line NHLers, if they make it. Again, the context of my comments were guys being slept on, who could be quality higher end guys. I said Hildeby and Grebenkin could be. I hope all of our prospects make an impact in some ways, and quality home grown 4th line players have value too.

 

[TheDoldrums]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1828797661765599388