Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[Jack7222]

I'm not torn at all - but like you, I was. until recently
I'd be working on moving Scheif at the earliest - new coach, less distractions, go jets


IMHO, it is


Problem is, Scheif already thinks he "on board" - playing the best hockey of his career

I think this is how I feel as well. The Scheif situation may not be unsalvageable, but you're taking a pretty massive risk if it is. I think if there's even a hint of rot in the dressing room you need to take some decisive steps to cut it out. But I'm not 100% sure.

 

[WpgSteve]

Yeah, that was one of my first thoughts once the Trotz news was announced. Barzal was who I was hoping the Jets would take a look at in a swap for 55.

If you could have either Trotz coach the team or Barzal in a trade for Scheifele, which would you choose?

I would chose Trotz. I don't see the point in trading one me first prima dona that won't listen to the coach for another one.

 

[BatVader]

Yeah, that was one of my first thoughts once the Trotz news was announced. Barzal was who I was hoping the Jets would take a look at in a swap for 55.

If you could have either Trotz coach the team or Barzal in a trade for Scheifele, which would you choose?

For me, it would depend on what other coaches are available.
A Barzal for Scheif swap could work with the right coach.

 

[DRW204]

 

[None]

I wonder what was floating in the media circles that would make Dreger say that he thought Scheifele was gone even before the season post-mortem interview. Could be just stirring the pot though

 

[DRW204]

I wonder what was floating in the media circles that would make Dreger say that he thought Scheifele was gone even before the season post-mortem interview. Could be just stirring the pot though

Dreger has some moles in Winnipeg

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I wonder what was floating in the media circles that would make Dreger say that he thought Scheifele was gone even before the season post-mortem interview. Could be just stirring the pot though

He is pretty dialed into some GMs around the league. My guess is someone told him that

 

[Guardian17]

That sounds pretty definitive.

 

[drumzan]

Dreger is Chipman/Cheveldayoff’s PR Department. It’s significant. This all but confirms he’s gone.

 

[scarbrow21]

Dreger is Chipman/Cheveldayoff’s PR Department. It’s significant. This all but confirms he’s gone.

I'm ok with that. Best thing that could happen go this org is trade him while value is high and before he's getting paid 9-10m per and already declining. This could rewrite our fate of the franchise

 

[None]

He is pretty dialed into some GMs around the league. My guess is someone told him that

So your guess is that the Jets were shopping/gauging interest and Dreger heard about it from another team? I wonder then if there was any difference than any other time a player is brought up in those kinds of talks which surely happen more than anyone thinks. Dreger makes it sound pretty certain that he thought Scheifele was gone regardless of that post-season rant of his and his exit interview with Chevy.

Maybe trade talks got further along than we'll ever know

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

He is pretty dialed into some GMs around the league. My guess is someone told him that

Uh-huh, is he dialed into any owners around the league? Cause this is one of those franchise shaping moves that Chipman will have to sign off on. It's rumoured Chipman vetoed a Wheeler trade a few years ago and I expect this will be the same. He'll let Chevy go through the motions but when push comes to shove, he won't have the belly for it.

So, I'm just gonna sit here at my table with a big mug of Irish Coffee and say..

 

[surixon]

Uh-huh, is he dialed into any owners around the league? Cause this is one of those franchise shaping moves that Chipman will have to sign off on. It's rumoured Chipman vetoed a Wheeler trade a few years ago and I expect this will be the same. He'll let Chevy go through the motions but when push comes to shove, he won't have the belly for it.

So, I'm just gonna sit here at my table with a big mug of Irish Coffee and say..

View attachment 545595

If Mark has made it be known he wants out Chipman will do the loyalty thing and respect his wishes for time served imo.

Also I am pretty sure Mark isn't dumb enough not to have gotten the message from the rest of the team.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Uh-huh, is he dialed into any owners around the league? Cause this is one of those franchise shaping moves that Chipman will have to sign off on. It's rumoured Chipman vetoed a Wheeler trade a few years ago and I expect this will be the same. He'll let Chevy go through the motions but when push comes to shove, he won't have the belly for it.

So, I'm just gonna sit here at my table with a big mug of Irish Coffee and say..

View attachment 545595

I haven't heard this Wheeler veto rumour before. Can you elaborate?

 

[Cnile]

I haven't heard this Wheeler veto rumour before. Can you elaborate?

It would definitely not surprise me for sure.
But I’d also like to see more details on this rumour.

 

[The Unknown Poster]

What I find is interesting is all the smoke from various places including well sourced places. Its clear there is "something" to it. And it dovetails into big issues in the locker room. And yet none of the local media have a single story about what the heck has happened.

As far as trading Mark goes, it really could be the best move. The Jets tried the transition between windows already, keeping two open, when they had Wheeler, Ladd, Buff, Little etc from Atlanta and added younger guys. Generally you'd think they'd do it again with the older "youth" and younger talent coming in.

But if there is an impasse with Mark, it represents a golden opportunity. You normally dont trade a player like him at this stage of his career when you're still trying to compete (and look competitive, at least on paper). But if he could bolt in two years, coupled with the youth on the team, man, this trade could be what propels the team forward a lot more than keeping him could.

He will demand a huge return. If PLD signs a longer term extension, you're changing the culture of the team and the leadership to a degree. And you're adding whatever you get for Mark. Could be big. I think it could actually extend the Jets current window which is basically two years as it stands to much longer even if its one step back to take two steps forward.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Yeah, Dreger definitely has Chevy's trust as a distributor. If he says Scheifele's gone then he's gone, barring some Damascus moment where he rediscovers his love for the Jets and remembers how to play defence.

I wonder if a 55 >>> out makes PLD more or less interested in signing longer term.

If the former, then there's extra inventive to get the deal done. If the latter, then you're looking to move PLD, and aim to find yourself not just one but two high-end entres.

I can't help but think that the Jets may really have ****ed the pooch this season by letting the team spiral this far down. They needed to lock up PLD and get the next gen those fabled keys to the car. Now they run a risk of that car missing a good bit of its engine should PLD slow-walk his way to the Trouba exit.

It ain't even hindsight. This board was advocating for coaching changes years ago, but even last summer might have brought in a Boudreau / someone who gets the team into the playoffs or at least rolling down the stretch and starts making that transition to a new younger core. Now it all has to happen in-season. Genuinely don't understand management's inaction through the Maurice resignation/ Lowry lame-duck interim.

 

[DRW204]

What I find is interesting is all the smoke from various places including well sourced places. Its clear there is "something" to it. And it dovetails into big issues in the locker room. And yet none of the local media have a single story about what the heck has happened.

As far as trading Mark goes, it really could be the best move. The Jets tried the transition between windows already, keeping two open, when they had Wheeler, Ladd, Buff, Little etc from Atlanta and added younger guys. Generally you'd think they'd do it again with the older "youth" and younger talent coming in.

But if there is an impasse with Mark, it represents a golden opportunity. You normally dont trade a player like him at this stage of his career when you're still trying to compete (and look competitive, at least on paper). But if he could bolt in two years, coupled with the youth on the team, man, this trade could be what propels the team forward a lot more than keeping him could.

He will demand a huge return. If PLD signs a longer term extension, you're changing the culture of the team and the leadership to a degree. And you're adding whatever you get for Mark. Could be big. I think it could actually extend the Jets current window which is basically two years as it stands to much longer even if its one step back to take two steps forward.

The local media is soft AF that's why. They carry TNSEs water for the most part and got muzzles on when there's hard hitting questions that need to be posed. Guys like wheeler and Scheifele should be glad they don't have to deal with media from big markets, or that we don't typically get national attention.

People are putting lots on PLDs shoulders. I hope folks are right. Right now he's a 60 pt player at his max output and he's no selke guy defensively. Imo that's not good enough production for a 1c.

 

[jokesondee]

Scheifele and Wheeler need to be purged. Its gone too far and its so out in the open now that theres no turning back. Im still in shock its come to this. I really thought Scheifele would finish his career here and be a 1000 point player. The keys need to be handed to Morrissey, Lowry, and Dubois. Give those guys some letters and start creating a new inclusive culture. We need to get a haul for Scheifele which might be tough now that its pretty apparent theres no going back. Pretty pissed off at him to be honest. He played his way off this team with his "i dont give a shit" play and attitude. What has happened to this guy?? What a far cry from the happy go lucky kid we all grew to love.

 

[surixon]

Yeah, Dreger definitely has Chevy's trust as a distributor. If he says Scheifele's gone then he's gone, barring some Damascus moment where he rediscovers his love for the Jets and remembers how to play defence.

I wonder if a 55 >>> out makes PLD more or less interested in signing longer term.

If the former, then there's extra inventive to get the deal done. If the latter, then you're looking to move PLD, and aim to find yourself not just one but two high-end entres.

I can't help but think that the Jets may really have ****ed the pooch this season by letting the team spiral this far down. They needed to lock up PLD and get the next gen those fabled keys to the car. Now they run a risk of that car missing a good bit of its engine should PLD slow-walk his way to the Trouba exit.

It ain't even hindsight. This board was advocating for coaching changes years ago, but even last summer might have brought in a Boudreau / someone who gets the team into the playoffs or at least rolling down the stretch and starts making that transition to a new younger core. Now it all has to happen in-season. Genuinely don't understand management's inaction through the Maurice resignation/ Lowry lame-duck interim.

Yeah, I'm unsure what is going to happen any longer. Signing PLD is a must if you deal Mark. I would hope management knows what Dubois conditions are for staying long term.

I have to think if they clean out the old leadership then Dubois and others are OK with staying. Or atleast I hope so.

Get a good vet winger and start to transition Cole to 2C.

 

[WaveRaven]

In seriousness your going to have to make multiple moves. You're unlikely to get a #1 centre for 55. And you are way too thin up the middle without 55.

 

[Guffman]

If we are moving Schiefele this offseason, we’re not contending next season. Maybe we’re not contending regardless and this is the smartest move the Jets should make.

It’s probably a good idea to bite the bullet next season and give good minutes to our young guys (Samberg, Heinola, Perfetti) in a transition year.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Yeah, I'm unsure what is going to happen any longer. Signing PLD is a must if you deal Mark. I would hope management knows what Dubois conditions are for staying long term.

I have to think if they clean out the old leadership then Dubois and others are OK with staying. Or atleast I hope so.

The bottom line is that the Jets' upper brass (all the way to Chipman) screwed up royally. Winnipeg has enough issues against it when it comes to no-trade lists and signing free agents, so it is beyond imperative that the rest of the hockey operations be A-plus across the board. That includes (and perhaps most important) the locker room culture. Don't give me any of this "the room belongs to them" b.s. that Maurice spewed. At the first sign of trouble, action needed to be taken.

For the sake of turning this team back into a winner and having players want to play here, tough decisions need to be made. And perhaps more for spite that anything else, I would force Scheifele to stay and reduce his ice time or sit him if he doesn't buy in - only if we can't get EXACTLY what we want if not a whole lot more via the trade route. No more of the petulant Trouba-type of negotiations. If we don't get a player of his calibre or significantly high first round picks, let his beloved personal stats dwindle and see how much money he loses out on his next contract with whatever team he ends up.

Perhaps if the rest of the team sees Scheifele sit during the occasional third period or end up with ten minutes of ice time, they will see that accountability has finally found its way to Winnipeg and they will pull up the slack. Remember how well our record was with Scheifele and Wheeler out?

 

[surixon]

The bottom line is that the Jets' upper brass (all the way to Chipman) screwed up royally. Winnipeg has enough issues against it when it comes to no-trade lists and signing free agents, so it is beyond imperative that the rest of the hockey operations be A-plus across the board. That includes (and perhaps most important) the locker room culture. Don't give me any of this "the room belongs to them" b.s. that Maurice spewed. At the first sign of trouble, action needed to be taken.

For the sake of turning this team back into a winner and having players want to play here, tough decisions need to be made. And perhaps more for spite that anything else, I would force Scheifele to stay and reduce his ice time or sit him if he doesn't buy in - only if we can't get EXACTLY what we want if not a whole lot more via the trade route. No more of the petulant Trouba-type of negotiations. If we don't get a player of his calibre or significantly high first round picks, let his beloved personal stats dwindle and see how much money he loses out on his next contract with whatever team he ends up.

I get what your saying and to a large part I agree but this type or thing tends to happen a lot on sports.

Look at Minnesota with Parise and Sueter that became toxic and wasn't dealt with right away. Duchene became toxic in Colorado and it took Sakic a year to deal with him. Kane in San Jose. It's easy to say just keep the room good, it's probably much harder to do in practice. You can't just keep shipping players out all the time. Trades are hard in the NHL and talent even harder to come by. I don't blame management for trying to smooth things over with high talented players first prior to needing to move them out. Where are we going to get another Scheifele caliber player for instance? You don't think other orgs don't try to do the same to keep their top talent even if their are issues? Pittsburgh kept Kessel for years even though there was clear issues between him and Malkin. They were winning so it was toleratable but eventually Kessel was forced out ala Kane here.

 

[DannyGallivan]

I get what your saying and to a large part I agree but this type or thing tends to happen a lot on sports.

Look at Minnesota with Parise and Sueter that became toxic and wasn't dealt with right away. Duchene became toxic in Colorado and it took Sakic a year to deal with him. Kane in San Jose. It's easy to say just keep the room good, it's probably much harder to do in practice. You can't just keep shipping players out all the time. Trades are hard in the NHL and talent even harder to come by. I don't blame management for trying to smooth things over with high talented players first prior to needing to move them out. Where are we going to get another Scheifele caliber player for instance? You don't think other orgs don't try to do the same to keep their top talent even if their are issues? Pittsburgh kept Kessel for years even though there was clear issues between him and Malkin. They were winning so it was toleratable but eventually Kessel was forced out ala Kane here.

First, we are assuming that Scheifele is the problem - and the evidence points that way. I think what was needed was a firmer hand, not to ship him out. I think that if he stays, losing the A is a foregone conclusion. Same with Wheeler's C. Perhaps it's just symbolic and window dressing, but if those letters go on PLD and Lowry instead, then a message has been sent loud and clear.

What I would prefer the most is for us not to trade Scheifele, and instead have a new coach come in and turn him around to the player he was four years ago. I agree that we would be very hard pressed to get value for value in a trade with him. But the question is... is that possible now? Apparently, Scheifele has not asked for a trade. I think they're playing word games there, but if he is waiting to see what direction the organization is going (essentially those are his words), then he has to recognize that he may not get everything he wants when a new coach comes in.