Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[Heldig]

I have said for a while that the key to all of it is signing Dubois. He already has too much leverage. Paid a premium (too much IMO) to acquire him, became a fan favourite, young, position of need...and now the locker-room / Scheifele crap.

He probably gets overpaid by 1million or more because of all of this. That is IF he wants to stick around.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Trading 55 because of his play (lack of play) is one thing to discuss, but if he is an issue in the dressing room, then he has to go regardless.

Same with Wheeler or anyone else. We have to get rid of the rot and start gelling as a team. PLD, KC, Ehlers, Morrisey, Lowry all want to stay under the right circumstances..... let's give them those circumstances.

Start off the year with a new coach and staff, two new players (from trades) and include Perfetti, Heinola etc in the starting lineup. I'll bet by mid year we look pretty damn good, and young.

 

[surixon]

Trading 55 because of his play (lack of play) is one thing to discuss, but if he is an issue in the dressing room, then he has to go regardless.

Same with Wheeler or anyone else. We have to get rid of the rot and start gelling as a team. PLD, KC, Ehlers, Morrisey, Lowry all want to stay under the right circumstances..... let's give them those circumstances.

Start off the year with a new coach and staff, two new players (from trades) and include Perfetti, Heinola etc in the starting lineup. I'll bet by mid year we look pretty damn good, and young.

Pretty much where I'm at. Look at Minny after clearing the rot. I see us doing similarly.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I haven't heard this Wheeler veto rumour before. Can you elaborate?

Not much more to it. It was just one of those "my sources tell me" posts here years ago. Chevy was planning to trade Wheeler before his NMC kicked in, and Chipman said no. Now I know most will look askance at such hearsay, but I tend to agree with David St Hubbins, who said "I believe virtually everything I read, and I think that is what makes me more of a selective human than someone who doesn’t believe anything".

 

[The Unknown Poster]

I think PLD and Sheif issues could be related. Almost a situation of one has to go. Sheif has seemed to sulk. If trading Sheif, lock PLD up. I really think building around him is the key to success. It didnt work building around Sheif and Wheeler.

Jets have shown they can win without Sheif. But theyd be thin at C. I would think if Mark is gone and Jets dont get a top six C, they circle back to Stastny. A new coach hopefully sees what Perfetti has as well and Stast might be a great mentor for him.

I like Dillon but if he's miserable, ship him out as you'd have suiters and save some money. Same with Schmidt but I dont think that is likely. But if new systems and new coach comes in, could benefit Schmidt and get him back to form.

Seems the Jets were extremely focused on always bringing in "locker room guys". I guess we're seeing why. TN and Chevy look like dummies letting some locker room rot fester for so long.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Trading 55 because of his play (lack of play) is one thing to discuss, but if he is an issue in the dressing room, then he has to go regardless.

Same with Wheeler or anyone else. We have to get rid of the rot and start gelling as a team. PLD, KC, Ehlers, Morrisey, Lowry all want to stay under the right circumstances..... let's give them those circumstances.

Start off the year with a new coach and staff, two new players (from trades) and include Perfetti, Heinola etc in the starting lineup. I'll bet by mid year we look pretty damn good, and young.

What we should have done last year. Getting Dillon and Schmidt was a mistake. We should have gone with our internal prospect Dmen. Put the finishing touches on their development in the NHL. Save blocking them. Save the picks used to get them. Save the cap hit given to them. Pay Copp. Do all of that under a new coaching staff. When Maurice expressed doubts about having his heart in the game, he should have been replaced immediately.

Not only a wasted year but also a lot of damage done that needs to be cleaned up.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not much more to it. It was just one of those "my sources tell me" posts here years ago. Chevy was planning to trade Wheeler before his NMC kicked in, and Chipman said no. Now I know most will look askance at such hearsay, but I tend to agree with David St Hubbins, who said "I believe virtually everything I read, and I think that is what makes me more of a selective human than someone who doesn’t believe anything".

There are likely rumours, believable ones, and then there is that house Stastny was building B4 he ran off to Vegas.

There is nothing selective about believing everything you read. You need to consider sources. Without a reliable source, it is just BS.

 

[Guffman]

What we should have done last year. Getting Dillon and Schmidt was a mistake. We should have gone with our internal prospect Dmen. Put the finishing touches on their development in the NHL. Save blocking them. Save the picks used to get them. Save the cap hit given to them. Pay Copp. Do all of that under a new coaching staff. When Maurice expressed doubts about having his heart in the game, he should have been replaced immediately.

Not only a wasted year but also a lot of damage done that needs to be cleaned up.

Morty, that’s hindsight. Most of us were super pumped last offseason that the Jets were going for it.

 

[tbcwpg]

What we should have done last year. Getting Dillon and Schmidt was a mistake. We should have gone with our internal prospect Dmen. Put the finishing touches on their development in the NHL. Save blocking them. Save the picks used to get them. Save the cap hit given to them. Pay Copp. Do all of that under a new coaching staff. When Maurice expressed doubts about having his heart in the game, he should have been replaced immediately.

Not only a wasted year but also a lot of damage done that needs to be cleaned up.

Lots of 20/20 hindsight here. You would've had the Jets overpaying for Copp at the start of the year based on what he was up until that point. A wasted year is defined as what? Missing the playoffs? Really good chance they do that with more of the rookies back on D. Development of defencemen? The NHL isn't a developmental league. If the goal in the summer last year was to make the playoffs, they're not starting rookies on a back end that has been criticized for a few seasons now as weak.

I'd agree they needed a new coach in the summer. Do we know that Maurice expressed those doubts to management? I don't remember that but I'll take your word for it that it was true.

 

[Cnile]

Hanging onto Scheifele only compounds an already difficult situation, it would only affirm to the rest of the team that Mark can do whatever he pleases which is likely why we are here in the first place.
I don’t care how many points Mark or Blake get because despite their personal stats it hasn’t translated to team success, which is the only success I care about.
Good riddance

 

[Zippity]

I’m thinking Wheeler is the bigger problem. He drops the gloves with Chiarot, rumors he fought with Buff, Scheifele and him also have it out in December. He has had a pissy attitude towards media for a long time too.
There definitely needs a leadership change in dressing room before a new coach can work some magic

 

[surixon]

Hanging onto Scheifele only compounds an already difficult situation, it would only affirm to the rest of the team that Mark can do whatever he pleases which is likely why we are here in the first place.
I don’t care how many points Mark or Blake get because despite their personal stats it hasn’t translated to team success, which is the only success I care about.
Good riddance

You get rid of both as imo if you move Mark, Wheeler asks out anyhow as he won't have the locker room support anymore and won't have his coach or locker room lieutenant in Schiefele.

As Murat said he'd be on an island.

 

[The Unknown Poster]

Wheeler pretty much admitted he was an ass after Laine left and that he was going to try to be a gentler, kinder Captain. But it was backhanded because I believe he also mentioned how he just wants everyone to work as hard as him.

There was a lot of talk about the body language between Scheif and Wheeler at last year's season ending presser, that Schief looked miserable, especially when Wheeler was talking. I wonder if they had a blow up over Scheif's hit in the playoffs.

There was also talk that Schief having an A was for him to be the "youth" rep among leadership and it didnt work that way and that Scheif was more aligned with Wheeler and the vets than being an advocate for the younger players.

Dreger is a top guy so we can take to the bank there are very serious issues and Scheif wants out. Question is, does that fix the locker room problems or is Wheeler an issue? And if so, how do deal with him? Thats a tough contract to trade. if you could trade it, fantastic...save a ton of money. But what would they give up to do so?

And if not, would Wheeler come in and be happy being a very good 3RW with PP time?

 

[surixon]

Wheeler pretty much admitted he was an ass after Laine left and that he was going to try to be a gentler, kinder Captain. But it was backhanded because I believe he also mentioned how he just wants everyone to work as hard as him.

There was a lot of talk about the body language between Scheif and Wheeler at last year's season ending presser, that Schief looked miserable, especially when Wheeler was talking. I wonder if they had a blow up over Scheif's hit in the playoffs.

There was also talk that Schief having an A was for him to be the "youth" rep among leadership and it didnt work that way and that Scheif was more aligned with Wheeler and the vets than being an advocate for the younger players.

Dreger is a top guy so we can take to the bank there are very serious issues and Scheif wants out. Question is, does that fix the locker room problems or is Wheeler an issue? And if so, how do deal with him? Thats a tough contract to trade. if you could trade it, fantastic...save a ton of money. But what would they give up to do so?

And if not, would Wheeler come in and be happy being a very good 3RW with PP time?

If Wheeler is still here he will be on an island. I think the young core will band together and take over in the room. It will be up to him to fall in with the new leadership or he will be alienated.

 

[ps241]

If Wheeler is still here he will be on an island. I think the young core will band together and take over in the room. It will be up to him to fall in with the new leadership or he will be alienated.

The young core already started taking over last season. If Mark is gone I am not convinced Blake needs to go. New coaches, new teammates, younger leaders stepping up, who's to say this isn't something Blake embraces since he is only one season away from his lame duck year anyways.

 

[surixon]

The young core already started taking over last season. If Mark is gone I am not convinced Blake needs to go. New coaches, new teammates, younger leaders stepping up, who's to say this isn't something Blake embraces since he is only one season away from his lame duck year anyways.

Exactly, the process has already started and will continue organically. The leadership change is already well underway. I'm also not convinced he needs to go but it will be up to him to fall in line and not create issues.

The question though is does he want to stay in a room where he doesn't have control and play a lesser role. He may elect to want to move on as well. I'm not convinced his personality will allow for such an easy transition to a secondary role but I guess we shall see.

It will be an interesting summer. I think Mark is gone foresure but Blake may or may not follow him out.

 

[Ggg99]

If folks want to trade him for barzal. Might want to rethink a Trotz hire possibly.

So here is one thing that Paul Maurice was much better at than Barry Trotz. Playing politics.

PoMo knew that catering to management's golden boys gave him job security - at the expense of all else it turns out.

Sounds like Trotz didn't do the same with Barzal.

 

[ps241]

So here is one thing that Paul Maurice was much better at than Barry Trotz. Playing politics.

PoMo knew that catering to management's golden boys gave him job security - at the expense of all else it turns out.

Sounds like Trotz didn't do the same with Barzal.

Paul Maurice was:

An average NHL coach which is impressive

He was a 9 out 10 with the press which I appreciated 9 out of 10 times

I think he was legitimately a great guy

He was great with owners and GM’s

He knew how to appease the team leaders.

He was a very good coach in Winnipeg up until the end of 2017-18

Honestly I wish him nothing but the best in his future endeavours.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Paul Maurice was:

An average NHL coach which is impressive

He was a 9 out 10 with the press which I appreciated 9 out of 10 times

I think he was legitimately a great guy

He was great with owners and GM’s

He knew how to appease the team leaders.

He was a very good coach in Winnipeg up until the end of 2017-18

Honestly I wish him I’m nothing but the best in his future endeavours.

Well, I can certainly say Maurice is a really nice guy in person. Saw him at the airport after the 2019 draft, which was when I got to meet him briefly.

I just wish I wasn't so tongue-tied as I usually don't get those kinds of opportunities

 

[buggs]

Paul Maurice was:

An average NHL coach which is impressive

He was a 9 out 10 with the press which I appreciated 9 out of 10 times

I think he was legitimately a great guy

He was great with owners and GM’s

He knew how to appease the team leaders.

He was a very good coach in Winnipeg up until the end of 2017-18

Honestly I wish him I’m nothing but the best in his future endeavours.

Ya see, I loved Maurice in his pressers. Obviously a very intelligent, articulate man. I suspect he was a good coach to play for, but only to a point.

I would say the same thing about Noel. And I wonder if that doesn't point to a problem.

Perhaps we to have the team take a different tack with the coaching approach. Not a full 180 but at least a move away from what those two represent. Great people, mediocre results.

On Scheifele, it would seem time to move on. This makes me very sad because at points I honestly thought that Maurice was right, and one day there'd be a Scheifele statue. I didn't hesitate to use my Jets points to get a Scheifele auto'd jersey. Thought the kid would be the front end legacy of Jets 2.0 but now with the sour taste in my mouth that seems unfortunate. Wish we knew what drove the changes but I expect we never will.

Wondering if Laine maybe wanted out and it wasn't actually him that was the bad guy? No question we received an excellent return I'm very happy with but did the room chase him away or was he entitled? Legit question now.

 

[WpgSteve]

Maurice is a good coach and did a good job here. He likely held things together longer than anyone else could.

 

[ps241]

Exactly, the process has already started and will continue organically. The leadership change is already well underway. I'm also not convinced he needs to go but it will be up to him to fall in line and not create issues.

The question though is does he want to stay in a room where he doesn't have control and play a lesser role. He may elect to want to move on as well. I'm not convinced his personality will allow for such an easy transition to a secondary role but I guess we shall see.

It will be an interesting summer. I think Mark is gone foresure but Blake may or may not follow him out.

It will be interesting to see it play out. Does this reach the threshold where Chevy has to move Mark? I would say yes but easy for me from the cheap seats without knowing how all the exit interviews went and what the return will be. I have an uneasy feeling on this one but time will tell.

If we end up with Scheifele lining up with the A on and an old TNSE alumi coaching I look forward to the next GM/Owners poll. Either way for now I will keep my fingers crossed that Chevy has a productive summer.

 

[ps241]

Ya see, I loved Maurice in his pressers. Obviously a very intelligent, articulate man. I suspect he was a good coach to play for, but only to a point.

I would say the same thing about Noel. And I wonder if that doesn't point to a problem.

Perhaps we to have the team take a different tack with the coaching approach. Not a full 180 but at least a move away from what those two represent. Great people, mediocre results.

On Scheifele, it would seem time to move on. This makes me very sad because at points I honestly thought that Maurice was right, and one day there'd be a Scheifele statue. I didn't hesitate to use my Jets points to get a Scheifele auto'd jersey. Thought the kid would be the front end legacy of Jets 2.0 but now with the sour taste in my mouth that seems unfortunate. Wish we knew what drove the changes but I expect we never will.

Wondering if Laine maybe wanted out and it wasn't actually him that was the bad guy? No question we received an excellent return I'm very happy with but did the room chase him away or was he entitled? Legit question now.

Yea I am disspointed with how Mark chose to move forward as a one dimensional scoring forward. That’s obviously the fun part of the game to dissect each play with your consultants and look to optimize your point production. I would have hoped he would have watched players like Barkov, Bergeron, and Kopitar work their magic without the puck and try to model that two way game but unfortunately he took the easy way out and cut corners. I’m with you though the saddest I have been in 2.0 era was when Buff suddenly retired, I loved watching that guy play and the team hasn’t been the same and part of my fandom died with that event. Right next to that though is Mark’s lack of development and change of attitude. He would have been the last player I would have picked on our roster to do the full heel swerve.

I think with Laine I might have given him a pass but after his first season in Columbus the Athletic reporter said that some players wanted him gone. There were also the issues of him complaining about usage (on both teams) and then trying to do damage control after the fact. Laine bounced back on the ice this past season riding an elevated shooting % and it seems like he might be setting in a bit in Columbus for now so time will tell. If this was a multiple choice question as to who the blame was to be placed on with four options Maurice, Wheeler, Scheifele, and Laine I would bet the house on the “all the above” option.

 

[BatVader]

Maurice is a good coach and did a good job here. He likely held things together longer than anyone else could.

Maurice is a very limited coach who plays favourites and doesn’t trust kids enough to give them a proper shot. He was mostly ok in WPG until we were ready to make our run, 4-5 years ago, then he should have been replaced with a proper coach.
He was also a big part of the problem and a big part of the reason we are where we are now.

 

[Cnile]

Maurice is a very limited coach who plays favourites and doesn’t trust kids enough to give them a proper shot. He was mostly ok in WPG until we were ready to make our run, 4-5 years ago, then he should have been replaced with a proper coach.
He was also a big part of the problem and a big part of the reason we are where we are now.

Agree he was a big part of the problem enabled by a management/ownership with blinders on pertaining to :
26/55