Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[Jets 31]

Watching some of the playoff games this Jets team would get killed. Scheifele wouldn't last a period before Brind'amour sat him. Man i hope we could somehow get a coach like that.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I still can't believe the fall from grace Scheifeme has taken here. It's pretty incredible, really. I always envisioned him wearing the C, never playing for another team, having his 55 one day raised to the rafters, being a true life-long Winnipeg Jet, and if we were ever going to win a Stanley Cup it would be on his back. Personally as a Jets fan, today, I can't wait to see his selfish self-absorbed ass walk out the door. I hope this was the last we see of him as part of this organization. Unless he can do a complete 180 and pull his head directly out of his ass, but that's a tall order and ask at this point and I think the damage has been done here and it is beyond repair with him as a Winnipeg Jet in that locker room. I think he has done too much of a disservice to his teammates, especially as a someone carrying so much responsibility and role with the team.

For so long this board has voiced what they thought was going on, what was being watched on the ice, and so much of it seems so damn accurate now. The observations made in re; to 55 have been echoed here for years, and in typical TNSE/Chevy fashion, it literally came to a head this week and blew up in their faces. Chevy can downplay this all he wants, the reactions from these players were not made on an emotional whim. They were made with composure, grace and frustration stemming from weeks, months and years of this all going sideways and sinking. They were made methodically and with purpose. It's ugly and laughable that this was able to fester and reach this point.

I still think this roster was a near perfect mix to contend this season. But after seeing and hearing what we have from the players, it's no wonder this never came together. This thing was doomed from the beginning. So much seems clear now from the outside looking in after hearing players speak the last couple of weeks and after the season ending game. Sure we don't know exactly, factually speaking, but it seems pretty clear to piece this puzzle together unless you're incredibly naive.

I am not sure when this organization will learn how to deal with team-related issues, but their track record of being proactive is down right abysmal and I sure hope collectively this can be a wake up call, though I have my doubts there. There is patient and methodical, yes, but then there is incompetence with the inability to act and lead for the betterment of the organization.

Truthfully, it should have never got to this point. And that is 100% on Chipman/Chevy. The two very men at the top. Their inability to manage this team and organization allowed a head coach to stay on board way beyond his expiration date, players clearly became disgruntled with systems, or a lack there of, players were not held accountable, the list just goes on. Maybe they have tried to correct the issues, surely they have, but nothing on the ice indicated that and from each player we have heard from there is absolutely no indication this was handled properly at any point along the way.

This whole thing just stinks.

Nailed it. Post of the year.

 

[Ducky10]

I could be wrong but didn't he also say he needs to improve?

Come on, that was about the most token, throw away comment anyone could have made. It was a throw away comment to anyone who listened to the whole thing. The focus of his comments were how happy he is with his game, he’s in his prime.

 

[Mooche]

Watching some of the playoff games this Jets team would get killed. Scheifele wouldn't last a period before Brind'amour sat him. Man i hope we could somehow get a coach like that.

Dead on.

This thought popped into my head too actually last night taking in some of the playoff games.

Scheif states he wants to see "what direction the team is heading in" which obviously applies majorly to coaching staff. Let's be honest for a minute -- he wants no business of seeing a possible replacement with the style of a Rod B, Trotz, etc. mold coach taking over the team he is on.

He would be staple gunned to the pine for a long, long time until he committed himself to taking care of both ends of the ice.

A lot of these top coaches are nobody is bigger than the team, check your ego at the door types -- not push over, want to be friends with the top player Paul Maurice types.

 

[surixon]

Come on, that was about the most token, throw away comment anyone could have made. It was a throw away comment to anyone who listened to the whole thing. The focus of his comments were how happy he is with his game, he’s in his prime.

I mean he's said it for years and his game has just continued to get worse. So as I say talk is cheap.

 

[Jetsfan79]

Tin foil hat theory here.

Mark for whatever reason wants out of Winnipeg. Could be personality conflicts with teammates, could be he doesn't believe Jets will be true contenders during his time. Whatever.

He Doesn't want to give his heart an soul to a team he no longer believes in so he plays a selfish offensive game and half asses on defense on purpose. Maybe he thinks this would still make him look attractive on the trade market (points wise) and at the same time he may think he's doing the Jets a "favor" but not totally tanking or demanding a trade.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

huddy and kompon are very much gone as well

I said Huddy. I emphasized Huddy.
Preferably the rest also, but it is Lowry and Huddy that have to go.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Watching some of the playoff games this Jets team would get killed. Scheifele wouldn't last a period before Brind'amour sat him. Man i hope we could somehow get a coach like that.

Watching the games during the year the jets were not as intense as the rest of the nhl.

We would play a team and the game was slower and hardly any emotion and the same team we played would get into a fast paced heavy game the next night.

It’s like the jets are playing pond hockey

 

[cbcwpg]

Tin foil hat theory here.

Mark for whatever reason wants out of Winnipeg. Could be personality conflicts with teammates, could be he doesn't believe Jets will be true contenders during his time. Whatever.

He Doesn't want to give his heart an soul to a team he no longer believes in so he plays a selfish offensive game and half asses on defense on purpose. Maybe he thinks this would still make him look attractive on the trade market (points wise) and at the same time he may think he's doing the Jets a "favor" but not totally tanking or demanding a trade.

"I'm in the prime of my career. I still have so much to improve on, too, and I like where my game is at. I like the physical nature that my body is at. I'm only improving, I'm only getting better, and I'm only going to be a better player next year than I was this year."

He may not have specifically asked for a trade ( we really don't know because Chevy won't ever say ), but what Scheifele did in his interview was tell the other 31 teams that he's available and good to go and what you saw this past season, he will improve on. He will be better. It was a public display to sell himself.

The only way Chef could have come off worse sounding in this interview is if he had talked in the 3rd person.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

do you honestly think they are going to be coming back?

Honestly? I don't quite know what to think.

We can't really believe what they say publicly so I am just waiting to see actual actions. 3 year extension for Chevy is the only one so far.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Just speculation on my part, but the more I listen to what Scheifele said and how he came across,

When he says " I like where my game is at " I'm convinced he's getting this impression of his play from some source outside of Jets' organization... someone like Adam Oates.

Maybe.

Sounded to me like he has one of those helper apps where you log on and a cute animated critter says "Great game, 55! You nailed it, kid! Every day and in every way you are getting better, better, better!"

That or a superfan he's got on DM.

I imagine that Oatsie's mighty heart is breaking every time he sees Scheif ambling round the rink waiting for a cherry-pick. I swear I saw him yawn when I was rinkhside for CBJ a while back. He was one move away from whipping out his phone to check his stocks. And that was in the O zone.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Wheeler has negative trade value. The Jets would have to give up a high draft pick or give away a roster player as well.

I repeat, he scored 60 pts in 65 games. If we retain 3-4 mil we will have a lineup at the door trying to get him.

The talk about Wheeler's lack of value here has escalated to a point where it is completely over the top.

 

[Teemusalami204]

I repeat, he scored 60 pts in 65 games. If we retain 3-4 mil we will have a lineup at the door trying to get him.

The talk about Wheeler's lack of value here has escalated to a point where it is completely over the top.

I actually don’t mind Wheeler on this team. Even for his cap hit until he retires. Teams have this type of contract for players all the time or they lose them.

I think he either has to buy into a lesser role unlike he has in the past and or be stripped of the captaincy.

Obviously his leadership skills are not good enough and have contributed to this embarrassing and amateur Situation the hets are in.

He has always worked hard and unlike sheif he actually tries to play defence.

 

[surixon]

As much as we are piling on Chipman and Chevy and how it got to this, it's not like this org is alone in this.

To me most orgs do what they can to keep talent as long as possible. We saw the whole Buffalo/Eichel drama unfold recently. We saw Drouin in Tampa cause a ruckus. We also juat saw San Jose's teammates boot out Kane last year. Duchene was an issue in both Colorado and Ottawa. You got the Karalson/Hoffman and wives public feud.

Things got bad here but they get bad in other orgs as well. What needs to happen is for this ownership and management group correct the issue and rebound back up like after the Kane deal.

 

[Jets 31]

Tin foil hat theory here.

Mark for whatever reason wants out of Winnipeg. Could be personality conflicts with teammates, could be he doesn't believe Jets will be true contenders during his time. Whatever.

He Doesn't want to give his heart an soul to a team he no longer believes in so he plays a selfish offensive game and half asses on defense on purpose. Maybe he thinks this would still make him look attractive on the trade market (points wise) and at the same time he may think he's doing the Jets a "favor" but not totally tanking or demanding a trade.

Unfortunately for Scheifele teams can look at the video of his defensive game and i gotta figure that will scare some teams away so if anything he has hurt his trade value even if he was doing it on purpose. Plus would you want the Jets to get a player who just halfass's his way around the ice because for some reason that player isn't happy? I sure don't.

 

[Jetsfan79]

Unfortunately for Scheifele teams can look at the video of his defensive game and i gotta figure that will scare some teams away so if anything he has hurt his trade value even if he was doing it on purpose. Plus would you want the Jets to get a player who just halfass's his way around the ice because for some reason that player isn't happy? I sure don't.

I know the circumstances are a bit different but isn't that what PLD did to get out of Columbus?. We have seen Schiefele play better defensively before . Teams trying to trade for him may realize his bad defensive play could be linked to his desire to leave

 

[surixon]

I know the circumstances are a bit different but isn't that what PLD do to get out of Columbus?. We have seen Schiefele play better defensively before . Teams trying to trade for him may realize his bad defensive play could be linked to his desire to leave

He only did that after his coach went public with him wanting out and proceeded to throw him under a bus and alienate his teammates from him. I didn't like the shift but I van understand why he quit after what his coach did.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Whoosh.

Haven't been by for a while and today I get a text from a mate in WPG saying "The Jets are imploding Scheifele is gonna force a trade to flee the sinking ship arrrgggghhh!!!!!"

So naturally I swing back to HFJets to check the tea.

And then I read the 55 thread...

And then I see the quotes from Stats and Scheif's interviews...

And then I follow up by actually watching them...

And then I see that Kevy Chevy, who is presumably in charge of hockey ops bar the presence of an actual hockey ops person, and who has therefore overseen this mess and by riding along on the Mo train until the engineer literally jumped off it even while it was still chugging along (kind of) tacitly endorsed said mess, or at least did sod all about it (was noted lockeroom hero Nate S unequal to the task?) including seemingly closing his eyes and pointing to single out Biiiiig Dave Lowry as the interim coach, has just signed off on a three-year extension...

And then I hear that several more Jets have likely asked for trades (Dillon? Harkins? Svetch? Helle? Anyone else -- come on in, the water's fine!), and the org has said sure, happy to, if we can manage it...

And I ask myself, as Actual Functioning Cap'n Pauly Walnuts must surely have, where's the nearest exit?

Seriously, my Jets brethren and sistren, what in the emergent F is happening there in the sinking city? How did we get here? How do we get out?

Arrrgggghhhhhhh!!! is right.

Well, that is certainly the worst scenario I have heard of. I haven't heard of any of those trade requests. Even Scheifele apparently hasn't asked for a trade yet. Though he might at anytime. Or he might get traded before he gets around to requesting it.

Comments from several players are just confirming what we have known, or bolstering what we have suspected for quite a long time already - that PoMo's shelf life expired 2-4 years ago and that Lowry was the wrong replacement. Also that the coaching has left damage behind that will need to be repaired. Surely that will change, no?

I'm not the least surprised at Chevy being extended, though I think Chipman is being a little loose with his money by conferring 3 years on Chevy. Despite the extension, Chevy needs to be on the hotseat going forward. So 2 years would have been more appropriate. It would have told Chevy that he needs to clean up the mess or he will be gone. 3 years says that his job is safe and endorses what he has done to date.

Chevy needs to be accountable for the mess. Doesn't look like Chipman thinks so. Maybe Chipman doesn't see that there is a mess.

 

[Finnflash]

This is the most disappointed I’ve been as a jets fan since they left to Arizona

But I’m hopeful things will change for the better as we can’t get much lower.

 

[bumblebeeman]

"I'm in the prime of my career. I still have so much to improve on, too, and I like where my game is at. I like the physical nature that my body is at. I'm only improving, I'm only getting better, and I'm only going to be a better player next year than I was this year."

He may not have specifically asked for a trade ( we really don't know because Chevy won't ever say ), but what Scheifele did in his interview was tell the other 31 teams that he's available and good to go and what you saw this past season, he will improve on. He will be better. It was a public display to sell himself.

The only way Chef could have come off worse sounding in this interview is if he had talked in the 3rd person.

I actually don't mind this part of the interview. I want all the players to say they like how they're feeling and they only want to keep getting better. It was more the part about talking to his agent and family and figuring out what he wants that I find concerning.

 

[pucka lucka]

Let’s be honest here, players likely starting wanting out after the snow storm.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

In the post game interviews Wheeler comments about the line of him, Ehlers and Stast and says " our particular line combo, it was to little to late but it makes you wonder what could have been " Am I imagining things or is that a comment on playing( being glued to ) with Sheif.

Think there is a bit of imagination involved. Wheeler has always talked about what a wonderful fit he and Scheif have been. Saying that something else could be good does not equate to saying that the status quo was bad.

This might be the beginning of an acknowledgement that he recognizes that his role will have to change.

 

[gojetsgo]

I said Huddy. I emphasized Huddy.
Preferably the rest also, but it is Lowry and Huddy that have to go.

they are gone is the point...

 

[Guerzy]

Tin foil hat theory here.

Mark for whatever reason wants out of Winnipeg. Could be personality conflicts with teammates, could be he doesn't believe Jets will be true contenders during his time. Whatever.

He Doesn't want to give his heart an soul to a team he no longer believes in so he plays a selfish offensive game and half asses on defense on purpose. Maybe he thinks this would still make him look attractive on the trade market (points wise) and at the same time he may think he's doing the Jets a "favor" but not totally tanking or demanding a trade.

Good points. Not at all out of the realm of possibility imo if he has indeed already requested a trade. It is quite possible that over the last 2-3 years he has asked out and has not gotten his wish. While this has taken time to spill over, his play has absolutely spiraled downward the last handful of seasons. Something has just been 'off' for a very long time. So much so that some here were questioning his mental health.

I think the hardest part for many fans to accept is we have seen Mark display fantastic defensive play and effort. And then just like that... it went away as if he just didn't give a shit anymore. To see this all happen to a young player who literally prides himself as a "student of the game"... make it make sense, because none of it does from the outside looking in.

 

[buggs]

Watching the games during the year the jets were not as intense as the rest of the nhl.

We would play a team and the game was slower and hardly any emotion and the same team we played would get into a fast paced heavy game the next night.

It’s like the jets are playing pond hockey

Nah. It's the classic very talented team that isn't particularly invested in their teammates or the outcome. A big part is ego: "I can step up if I have to but I don't need to because it's just the ____". I've seen tons of teams like that over the years at all levels of sport. The NHL has talented players across the league and any team can beat any other team on any given night. But that consistency of play at an expected level is what allows teams to win more than lose. Those are mostly the teams in the playoffs right now, with some exceptions. The Jets had, on paper at the start of the year, a very appealing roster. It under-performed. Big part coaching, systems, what have you. Big part team cohesiveness.

I don't think it's all the players and I think we can look at any number of Jets from this year and say their compete level was up for each game. We all know those names and Wheeler would be one of them. He's slowing down, but his compete is always on.

Then there are players that in part mailed it in. Not many, but a few, one being discussed here that is so talented that his mailed in effort is enough to make him a really, really good hockey player. But far from a complete, 200 foot player that he was in 18-19.

I will tell you this: I would love to be able to go out for beers with Byfuglien and slip a truth serum into his beer. Be as angry as you like with him leaving but I bet he's sitting back nodding his head right now having known full well this was coming and he didn't want to be part of it.