Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[ThinIce61]

Any whispers on how Chevy's exit interview went with Scheifele ?

Scheifele told Chevy that Chevy needs to be more about the team, just like Mark is.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

By saying that we need to retain salary, you are describing negative trade value. We have to pay someone to take him - we are paying for him to play against us.

No, negative trade value would mean actually incentivizing someone to take both him and his contract. As it is, it is only his contract that is a problem. He is overpaid.

With retention, he would actually bring a nice return. Without it we would be hard pressed to find a partner. Not because he has zero or negative value but because the teams who would be interested in him have little cap space. At his age no team with available cap space would want him. Contenders would want him but they wouldn't have the cap space. So we retain to enable a team that is willing to pay for him to fit him into their cap structure.

If we recover cap elsewhere, then we don't need to move him. The reason for moving him would be that he doesn't take loss of the C very well. It would not be because he can't play anymore.

Yes, retaining on any traded player amounts to paying him to play against us. But we are paying less than if he played for us. We can use that cap space to improve our roster elsewhere. And we get a return, like a pick, that will potentially play for us for years after our former player has retired.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Anyone else see lowry jerk his head towards Sheifme when he said “ I would of been back for playoffs “

Something is really f***in rotten in the jets room..

 

[cbcwpg]

Any whispers on how Chevy's exit interview went with Scheifele ?

Nothing, but my guess, we will know how the tough talk went by draft day.

 

[DRW204]

Any whispers on how Chevy's exit interview went with Scheifele ?

Scheifele had no defense to Chevy's critique

 

[Jetsfan79]

Nothing, but my guess, we will know how the tough talk went by draft day.

yes your probably right. close to the draft or when a new coach is hired. Earliest i see that is shortly after round 1 ends. True North probably waits to see if early first round exits yields any firings.

 

[WickedPegJets]

Chevy didn't hire him, Maurice did.

Paul Maurice approached his GM Chevy about wanting to hire Dave Lowry. It’s always uncomfortable when a direct relative is your father and head coach. The Sutter brothers encountered that when coaching a nephew.

 

[WickedPegJets]

Scheifele had no defense to Chevy's critique

Mark Scheifele was the Jets 2.0’s first draft pick and poster boy. He has known Chevy since 2011 and their relationship has turned into seeing the same sick old furniture every day. One of them needs a change of scenery but since Chevy just signed a 3-year extension, it’s time to trade Scheifele. At a below market value of $6.125 M per annum, plenty of clubs (e.g. Bruins, Wild) will want him!

 

[DRW204]

Mark Scheifele was the Jets 2.0’s first draft pick and poster boy. He has known Chevy since 2011 and their relationship has turned into seeing the same sick old furniture every day. One of them needs a change of scenery but since Chevy just signed a 3-year extension, it’s time to trade Scheifele. At a below market value of $6.125 M per annum, plenty of clubs (e.g. Bruins, Wild) will want him!

Agreed. I think any top 10-15 team will want him. Look at teams with aging vets such as PIT or BOS they'll be more aggressive

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

No, negative trade value would mean actually incentivizing someone to take both him and his contract.

You can't have him without his contract. Paying someone by retaining salary to take him and his contract is 'incentivizing'

 

[Mooche]

Agreed. I think any top 10-15 team will want him. Look at teams with aging vets such as PIT or BOS they'll be more aggressive

Yeah, I agree as well.

I think he ends up on a team where they have a 1C who can do the heavy lifting on both ends of the rink to free him up.

Shelter his matchups and it will allow him to do what he does best -- put effort into one end of the rink.

Also, gives him a chance also to be used to load up on a PP1 unit.

 

[buggs]

Yeah, I agree as well.

I think he ends up on a team where they have a 1C who can do the heavy lifting on both ends of the rink to free him up.

Shelter his matchups and it will allow him to do what he does best -- put effort into one end of the rink.

Also, gives him a chance also to be used to load up on a PP1 unit.

I expect there's a decent chance that with a change of scenery and a non-Maurice coaching situation that the WCF version of Scheifele may well return.

While we as Jets fans have had to watch the painful devolution of Mark's overall skill set, I don't actually believe it's gone. I believe his GAF is gone for reasons unbeknownst to us. The fault for that lays at the feet of the coaching and management of TNSE in some way, shape or form. Perhaps some external to TNSE factors as well, but only Mark can resolve those issues (emotional, relationship, etc., all of which are acceptable to have but he needs to work through).

If I'm a different GM that wants Scheifele, I'm thinking I can bring back that skill set that had him in the discussion as a top ten center in the league at the end of 2017-18. That's something that Scheifele clearly hasn't been the last several seasons in Winnipeg, but he was at one point.

This is going to hurt to watch as a Jets fan but we can't make Scheifele do what Scheifele doesn't want to do here in Winnipeg. So it's upon Chevy to get a most excellent return.

 

[DRW204]

Yeah, I agree as well.

I think he ends up on a team where they have a 1C who can do the heavy lifting on both ends of the rink to free him up.

Shelter his matchups and it will allow him to do what he does best -- put effort into one end of the rink.

Also, gives him a chance also to be used to load up on a PP1 unit.

I can even see him being open to be playing RW if need be beside future HOF players like malkin and sid, or Bergeron. I guess he'd be an upgrade to Bostons 2c too though. Would he be open to playing RW here next to perfetti or pld for instance like ive seen suggested? big difference between the two situations.

 

[Mooche]

I expect there's a decent chance that with a change of scenery and a non-Maurice coaching situation that the WCF version of Scheifele may well return.

While we as Jets fans have had to watch the painful devolution of Mark's overall skill set, I don't actually believe it's gone. I believe his GAF is gone for reasons unbeknownst to us. The fault for that lays at the feet of the coaching and management of TNSE in some way, shape or form. Perhaps some external to TNSE factors as well, but only Mark can resolve those issues (emotional, relationship, etc., all of which are acceptable to have but he needs to work through).

If I'm a different GM that wants Scheifele, I'm thinking I can bring back that skill set that had him in the discussion as a top ten center in the league at the end of 2017-18. That's something that Scheifele clearly hasn't been the last several seasons in Winnipeg, but he was at one point.

This is going to hurt to watch as a Jets fan but we can't make Scheifele do what Scheifele doesn't want to do here in Winnipeg. So it's upon Chevy to get a most excellent return.

You may be right.

That's the appealing thing about buying low on an any asset, in this case Scheifele's stock, but it remains to be seen if he will ever regain that form of old.

The only absolute we can work with is that his performance on the ice since 17-18 has sharply declined. I do not believe that is up for debate.

I do agree and believe that coaching was a major issue in many facets of this team for years. I've been driving the Maurice expiry date argument for years on this board. However, it's not fair to solely lay the drop off in his game solely at the feet of Maurice, Chevy etc. He just simply has not committed himself to doing what it takes to the best version of himself for years. Especially being a leader on this team, that's extremely troubling and disappointing.

So, in the end, a GM of a team may in fact be licking their chops, like you said would be, to grab a player of his calibre to slot into their team. But, I wouldn't be surprised if there are the equal amount of GMs who are going to be asking themselves the hard questions about Scheifele.

What was the rotten smell in the dressing room in Winnipeg and did he play a role in it? Is he going to fit into the culture of our team going forward? If things get tough for our club is he going to shut off and only play the way he wants to play on the ice?

All valid questions that can be asked of #55. Questions that should be asked by teams on the cusp of contention -- in this case, as we are discussing.

 

[Heldig]

I am not sure any team is buying low. PPG guy that is on a great contract. Every team wants / needs that.

Issues with his 2 way play will be tempered by - new team, new coach, new linemates, change of scenery etc

 

[Moe Mantha]

Maybe.

Sounded to me like he has one of those helper apps where you log on and a cute animated critter says "Great game, 55! You nailed it, kid! Every day and in every way you are getting better, better, better!"

That or a superfan he's got on DM.

Calling it now.

The app is Paul Maurice, and the superfan is Blake Wheeler.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You can't have him without his contract. Paying someone by retaining salary to take him and his contract is 'incentivizing'

OK, we are arguing semantics here. In circles. The fact is that at a lower salary, he is still a valuable player that some teams would be willing to give us a good return for. That is not the same as when a player is traded along with some actual assets just to get out from under a contract.

Isles sent 3 picks to Arizona to get them to take Ladd - in return for "future considerations". Ladd actually played for Ari this year, but only because they were tanking hard. He had played only 4 games in the NHL the previous 2 years combined and not because of injury.

We sent a good player plus 2 picks to Montreal to get them to take 1 lousy year of Steve Mason off our hands. We got Simon Bourque back, a guy who has never played a game in the NHL.

Those are examples of negative trade values. Neither player was NHL calibre even at league minimum salary.

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

I honestly don't see much of a difference between what PLD said about being here in the future and what Scheifele said. Both said they want to see where and what the organization is going to do before they decide.

Difference is one guy is signed for two more year on w contract him and his agent negotiated and the other guy can decide to sign here long term or not. Huge difference

 

[tbcwpg]

Nothing, but my guess, we will know how the tough talk went by draft day.

I'd agree with Mike McIntyre (first time I've said that I'm sure) when he said that the draft isn't necessarily the deadline to trade Scheifele. It may happen because all the GMs are together and negotiations could happen face to face, but I don't believe that if he's not traded by draft day that means he's staying.

 

[Fatdrunk]

K

 

[Ducky10]

I don’t think anyone is saying draft day is the deadline to trade Scheifele but if it’s their intention, there will be noise by then. Almost impossible for there not to be, especially considering the situation.

Scheifele will not be a tough move from an interest standpoint, he’s a top commodity. The tough part lies on Chevy to get the same value coming back.

 

[Jetsetter]

Being a young 20 something hockey player, having a new contract providing you 10's or millions of dollars, maybe we expect to much from these players? I can hear you saying I'd like to give it a shot!

I mean from a perspective of young man protected by his agent, parents, friends telling him he;s great and should get more. Every discussion on this blog site stated he was seriously under paid.

He needs a life and that might be challenging just being himself. Maybe he's a bit introverted?

How difficult would it be to mature normally where there's nothing but pressure to preform. Public expectations are outrageous in the hockey mad city that we live in. Every word/phrase is shaped into a story or report! You can tell he's been coached on how to phrase is responses. when he's in front of the crowd of media.

I say let's give Mark Scheifele a break.

 

[Jets 31]

I like Scheifele but i can't give him a break on his horrible defensive game. Just watch some of the centers playing in the playoffs right now, Scheifele's defensive effort is a joke compared to them. I wouldn't have a issue if he wasn't a good defensive player but at least busted his ass trying , this is not remotely happening. Ultimately i want him to be a great 2 way center because that will help the Jets team be successful, i'm a selfish bastard .

 

[ThinIce61]

Being a young 20 something hockey player, having a new contract providing you 10's or millions of dollars, maybe we expect to much from these players? I can hear you saying I'd like to give it a shot!

I mean from a perspective of young man protected by his agent, parents, friends telling him he;s great and should get more. Every discussion on this blog site stated he was seriously under paid.

He needs a life and that might be challenging just being himself. Maybe he's a bit introverted?

How difficult would it be to mature normally where there's nothing but pressure to preform. Public expectations are outrageous in the hockey mad city that we live in. Every word/phrase is shaped into a story or report! You can tell he's been coached on how to phrase is responses. when he's in front of the crowd of media.

I say let's give Mark Scheifele a break.

Mark, is that you?

 

[GreatSaveEssensa]

If he wants a break he can go and work 8 hours a day in an office or something. They get a couple breaks a day.

When your a pro athlete making 50 million in an 8 year span, who cannot grasp a team concept and fails to put in a solid effort you get no breaks in this city.