Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[gojetsgo]

They've already been countered in dozen's of posts pretty much saying the same thing -

Is it possible that there is more to it than that?
Don't assume people are missing these big points - or conveniently leaving them out.
They've been covered.
This is just another scenario that some might enjoy engaging without assuming there are no intentional omissions.

but what is the point in coming up with an alternate scenario if you know it doesn't work?
the last thing this forum needs is more people making up scenario's and ignoring the evidence that doesn't support them..

 

[tbcwpg]

If Winnipeg were to move Scheifele, what type of return do you think we would receive? Could we get a Jake Sanderson and a draft pick? If so a 1st? 2nd? late? Scheifele's salary works to our advantage in dealing him.

Doubtful. I don't think Scheifele fits their timeline.

The type of team that would trade for him would be either a team that's looking to get over the hump from pretender to contender, or a team that's had some really disappointing seasons. That leaves out the teams like Buffalo, Ottawa, Arizona etc. That would include teams like maybe Colorado, LA, the Rangers, the Islanders, Philadelphia.

Also I think there's no way we'd get Sanderson for Scheifele even if they were closer to contention, and that's before the draft pick from the Sens is involved.

 

[LowLefty]

but what is the point in coming up with an alternate scenario if you know it doesn't work?
the last thing this forum needs is more people making up scenario's and ignoring the evidence that doesn't support them..

I don't know that -
I like to think outside the box - I prefer it over a locked down approach to thinking that doesn't allow other options to enter a discussion.
And I wouldn't assume to be the one that decides what is appropriate feedback from fans - or what this forum "needs".
Cheers

 

[surixon]

I'm not sure if Ottawa would be looking to try to "win now". For them, they're building and having Sanderson on an ELC is huge.

I think it would be a team either looking to start contending, or needs a piece to "get over the top".

The Canes IMO are a good example. They look really good in these playoffs. What if they get to the ECF or SC and lose? They likely lose Trochek in the offseason. Do they throw money at him and not spend assets, or spend assets and go for Scheifele?

I'd say Surixon's idea of top prospect, good roster player(s), and a 1st is a pretty reliable scenario.

I'd prefer Jarvis, but something around Necas, Morrow, and a 1st makes the Canes a better team for 2 more runs.

Necas is a 40 point guy and needs a new deal, but won't make 6 million like Scheifele, so the Jets could also use the extra savings, AND move a D and add another top 6/9 forward with skill to the team. Morrow could be ready in a year or 2 and be a physical RHD that can skate.

Yeah I doubt they move Jarvis but we may need more of what Necas offers in our top 6/9.

I don't know enough about Morrow so I'll have to take a look. There first will be very late so I'd think they'd also need to throw in something else.

 

[Huffer]

Yeah I doubt they move Jarvis but we may need more of what Necas offers in our top 6/9.

I don't know enough about Morrow so I'll have to take a look. There first will be very late so I'd think they'd also need to throw in something else.

Sounds good, I didn't want to get too greedy.

 

[snowkiddin]

Yeah I doubt they move Jarvis but we may need more of what Necas offers in our top 6/9.

I don't know enough about Morrow so I'll have to take a look. There first will be very late so I'd think they'd also need to throw in something else.

Yeah, Necas, Morrow and a very late 1st seems a bit light for Scheifele. Basically just a middle six forward and two 2nds for one of two players in the league to be over a PPG for six seasons straight signed for just a hair over $6 million.

 

[surixon]

Yeah, Necas, Morrow and a very late 1st seems a bit light for Scheifele. Basically just a middle six forward and two 2nds for one of two players in the league to be over a PPG for six seasons straight signed for just a hair over $6 million.

Morrow has excellent stats in his first year in the NCAA so I wouldn't necessarily label him as having second round value even though he was picked there. Necas to me is a second line player with some size and some untapped upside. Still need more then that imo.

 

[snowkiddin]

Morrow has excellent stats in his first year in the NCAA so I wouldn't necessarily label him as having second round value even though he was picked there. Necas to me is a second line player with some size and some untapped upside. Still need more then that imo.

He looked good this past year but it's hard to say if his stock as raised much above the tweener 1st/2nd round type of prospect he was before the draft year.

Necas isn't bad and I think he'll develop into a second line player but I'd be disappointed if the return ends up being something like that.

 

[surixon]

He looked good this past year but it's hard to say if his stock as raised much above the tweener 1st/2nd round type of prospect he was before the draft year.

Necas isn't bad and I think he'll develop into a second line player but I'd be disappointed if the return ends up being something like that.

Yeah looking at their roster they don't have much else to add to top it up. Almost all their good complementary pieces are pending UFA's. We likely get a better offer from a different team.

 

[Huffer]

Yeah, Necas, Morrow and a very late 1st seems a bit light for Scheifele. Basically just a middle six forward and two 2nds for one of two players in the league to be over a PPG for six seasons straight signed for just a hair over $6 million.

Yeah looking at their roster they don't have much else to add to top it up. Almost all their good complementary pieces are pending UFA's. We likely get a better offer from a different team.

I would love it if we got more for sure. How would you feel if Necas was replaced with Jarvis?

 

[surixon]

I would love it if we got more for sure. How would you feel if Necas was replaced with Jarvis?

I like Jarvis but man would we ever have a lot of the same type of player in the top 6. it could work if we go full on new age schemes though and would be fun to watch.

 

[Ducky10]

I'd say that it is just as likely that the org in general, coddled the stars - with Maurice being the trigger man.
It's wrong in all sense but might be the result of how this organization decided to manage (or mismanage) key players.

Is there a possibility that Maurice was asked to bend over backwards for certain players? Never call them out or piss them off - we can't have unhappy stars and we don't want to scare anyone away (consider the market).
Is it possible that Maurice was following orders?

Is it possible that Maurice was left walking a fine line between following orders, maintaining a happy locker room, and winning? It's easy to see how this could get out of hand in a hurry - and it did.

Maurice is finally left holding the bag - team is a mess, certain players are now beyond coaching, and others feel abandoned, misused, ignored.

It isn't that much of a leap IMO - Scheif as your franchise center was on a pedestal - he could do no wrong.
Do fans actually think that Maurice was so dumb that he was unable to see how this treatment may impact players?

The guy is not dumb - and he knows where his paycheck is coming from.
So he sees the writing on the wall - he's a puppet - and he has lost the room.
He quits.

Most will not agree with any of this - it's easier to view is as simply a coaching problem.
I've heard all the other scenarios where the coach is very bad - no real need to toss them back into the discussion.
This is just another view

I don’t think it’s easier to view it as a coaching problem, it’s just far more likely. Judging by how much control Maurice seemed to have on the lineup and roster, it’s seems a pretty large stretch that he was somehow instructed on how to handle them.
In all the years I listened to Maurice, I never got any impression that he was under some directive to handle certain players differently. That’s just how he rolled.

 

[surixon]

I don’t think it’s easier to view it as a coaching problem, it’s just far more likely. Judging by how much control Maurice seemed to have on the lineup and roster, it’s seems a pretty large stretch that he was somehow instructed on how to handle them.
In all the years I listened to Maurice, I never got any impression that he was under some directive to handle certain players differently. That’s just how he rolled.

I'm sure there was pressure from players, agents, managers etc for ice time etc. But that is par for the course in all NHL markets.

I think the whole Heinola thing last year was fairly telling with regards to how much control Maurice has. Chevy and Maurice got into a public spat on it.

 

[Ducky10]

I'm sure there was pressure from players, agents, managers etc for ice time etc. But that is par for the course in all NHL markets.

I think the whole Heinola thing last year was fairly telling with regards to how much control Maurice has. Chevy and Maurice got into a public spat on it.

Every player wants to play more. Certainly not a Jets problem.

 

[LowLefty]

I don’t think it’s easier to view it as a coaching problem, it’s just far more likely. Judging by how much control Maurice seemed to have on the lineup and roster, it’s seems a pretty large stretch that he was somehow instructed on how to handle them.
In all the years I listened to Maurice, I never got any impression that he was under some directive to handle certain players differently. That’s just how he rolled.

I agree the obvious "go to" is Maurice - it's hard to debate.

I look at this option only because I get the sense that this team is buttoned down to an extent and it seems there are more hands in this than Maurice alone -
It's purely speculation - I won't die on this hill - but I also think there is an overly protective barrier around this club that is run from a higher level than the coach. If not, I would have thought management would have stepped in sooner.

Maybe I'm looking for explanation that is staring me in the face - but I do think it's worth pondering -

 

[WpgSteve]

I agree the obvious "go to" is Maurice - it's hard to debate.

I look at this option only because I get the sense that this team is buttoned down to an extent and it seems there are more hands in this than Maurice alone -
It's purely speculation - I won't die on this hill - but I also think there is an overly protective barrier around this club that is run from a higher level than the coach. If not, I would have thought management would have stepped in sooner.

Maybe I'm looking for explanation that is staring me in the face - but I do think it's worth pondering -

I think the answer is simpler. The Jets were very invested in a core built around Scheifele, and for good reason given his dominance in 2017/2018. This led to the team looking the other way and trying to gloss over problems rather than confronting them. It didn't work out and things eventually came to a head.

Lots of people blame Maurice for Scheifele's apparent bad attitude. I think it is something individual to Mark's personality that would have come out regardless of the coach. Maurice's strong interpersonal skills and relationship with the players probably held things together longer than they would have otherwise.

This is all pure speculation on my part.

 

[Ducky10]

I agree the obvious "go to" is Maurice - it's hard to debate.

I look at this option only because I get the sense that this team is buttoned down to an extent and it seems there are more hands in this than Maurice alone -
It's purely speculation - I won't die on this hill - but I also think there is an overly protective barrier around this club that is run from a higher level than the coach. If not, I would have thought management would have stepped in sooner.

Maybe I'm looking for explanation that is staring me in the face - but I do think it's worth pondering -

Lots of this I don’t disagree with. I’m not sure whether it impacted Maurice when it came to how he handled players. I think a lot of it is image related, it’s evident in all their messaging. They work very hard to control the messaging in all aspects of the organization, to a fault I think. The problem is, when that is your main goal and other issues develop that you don’t deal with, you start to get what we’re seeing right now. A few cracks in the foundation with player and fan unrest at the forefront.

 

[Ducky10]

I think the answer is simpler. The Jets were very invested in a core built around Scheifele, and for good reason given his dominance in 2017/2018. This led to the team looking the other way and trying to gloss over problems rather than confronting them. It didn't work out and things eventually came to a head.

Lots of people blame Maurice for Scheifele's apparent bad attitude. I think it is something individual to Mark's personality that would have come out regardless of the coach. Maurice's strong interpersonal skills and relationship with the players probably held things together longer than they would have otherwise.

This is all pure speculation on my part.

But Scheifele didn’t have those problems in 17-18 or in the years prior to that. To say it was a personality thing with Scheifele ignores the fact it wasn’t always this way. What was glossed over was the problems never being dealt with, by Maurice and by extension Chevy.

I’m not sure Maurice’s relationship with the players was one that was conducive to fixing such a thing, particularly with his veteran players. They weren’t accountable and that relationship likely prevented them from being held accountable. Lots going if examples to indicate so.

 

[Cnile]

But Scheifele didn’t have those problems in 17-18 or in the years prior to that. To say it was a personality thing with Scheifele ignores the fact it wasn’t always this way. What was glossed over was the problems never being dealt with, by Maurice and by extension Chevy.

I’m not sure Maurice’s relationship with the players was one that was conducive to fixing such a thing, particularly with his veteran players. They weren’t accountable and that relationship likely prevented them from being held accountable. Lots going if examples to indicate so.

That’s what they said, the problem manifested itself after.
The question is why

 

[Ducky10]

That’s what they said, the problem manifested itself after.
The question is why

Who’s They?

 

[Cnile]

Who’s They?

Winnipeg Steve the poster

 

[Ducky10]

Winnipeg Steve the poster

I’m referring to the part where he claims it’s more a product of Scheifele’s personality and not really anything to do with Maurice. It’s clear it manifested itself afterwards but I disagree with the why.

 

[Cnile]

I’m referring to the part where he claims it’s more a product of Scheifele’s personality and not really anything to do with Maurice. It’s clear it manifested itself afterwards but I disagree with the why.

Mark was all in until 2018-19
The 2019 exit interview was odd, Mark barely spoke a word, why?
Was it a personal issue or a team issue?
Nobody knows the what the disconnect was related to but there was a disconnect.

 

[Scheifele55]

But Scheifele didn’t have those problems in 17-18 or in the years prior to that. To say it was a personality thing with Scheifele ignores the fact it wasn’t always this way. What was glossed over was the problems never being dealt with, by Maurice and by extension Chevy.

I’m not sure Maurice’s relationship with the players was one that was conducive to fixing such a thing, particularly with his veteran players. They weren’t accountable and that relationship likely prevented them from being held accountable. Lots going if examples to indicate so.

Back in 2017-18 Dustin Byfuglien was the locker room enforcer. I don't think he would put up with locker room issues.

 

[gojetsgo]

I mean couldn't it just be the simplest answer? a coach who has favored his vets where ever he went, favored his vets far to long to the point they didn't feel any accountability for their play? seems like people are trying to add far more to this then there actually is...