Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[Teemusalami204]

No breaks from me.

I have been noticing Marks garbage d play for years now. I caught on so early I was getting lit up on these boards for mentioning it game after game.

I’m just glad I’m not alone anymore lol

 

[TS Quint]

Shaped? No, he did what he wanted to do in that press conference. He shaped that all by himself. No one asked if he still felt like being on the team he did that on his own. Everyone else came out and did like they were supposed to and spoke about how they wished they were able to be better for the team this year like they are supposed to. Scheifele came out and said the team didn’t do good enough for him and his standards. He wanted to create some controversy and did.

 

[sipowicz]

Schiefele felt threatened by Laine and the Jets cabal collectively forced him to leave!

PLD comes along and once again Schiefele feels threatened, this time though the cabal has changed and no longer has the power to effect a change so Schiefele now decides he is the one that has to go!

 

[hockeyarena]

Mark, is that you?

Scheif's alt account confirmed.

 

[Jets 31]

Scheif's alt account confirmed.

 

[cbcwpg]

What we saw from Scheifele was enabled by Maurice ( continued on by Lowry ), Chevy, and Chipman.

Scheifele was rewarded for good play earlier in his career. He worked hard, at both ends of the ice, and was rewarded with everything the club could give to a player. Then for reasons that only Scheifele knows his defensive game started to wain. But, even with these defensive shortcomings which have hurt the success of the team, Scheifele was still being rewarded as he always had been. That's on the club for allowing this to happen.

People are people, and human nature for most people is... why continue to bust your ass to achieve something when you realize you can achieve it without busting your ass? And I think that TNSE assumes that if you reward people they will always work hard for you. Not always the case.

And now we have a player that honestly believes the same team that has given him everything , is now holding him back from achieving his personal goals, and unless the team changes to align themselves so he can achieve his goals to his satisfaction... he wants out.

 

[surixon]

What we saw from Scheifele was enabled by Maurice ( continued on by Lowry ), Chevy, and Chipman.

Scheifele was rewarded for good play earlier in his career. He worked hard, at both ends of the ice, and was rewarded with everything the club could give to a player. Then for reasons that only Scheifele knows his defensive game started to wain. But, even with these defensive shortcomings which have hurt the success of the team, Scheifele was still being rewarded as he always had been. That's on the club for allowing this to happen.

People are people, and human nature for most people is... why continue to bust your ass to achieve something when you realize you can achieve it without busting your ass? And I think that TNSE assumes that if you reward people they will always work hard for you. Not always the case.

And now we have a player that honestly believes the same team that has given him everything , is now holding him back from achieving his personal goals, and unless the team changes to align themselves so he can achieve his goals to his satisfaction... he wants out.

No doubt a lot of this was enabled by Maurice and I've argued the same multiple times. Why work hard when you don't have to. This has a trickle down effect on the rest of the team, if the teams best player floats then why should I bust my ass. I think a lot of that came to a head this year with players who naturally juat work hard having enough of it and calling a spade a spade.

Anyhow we need a coach who will not play favorites ansmd will hold everyone to the same high standard of compete.

 

[Ducky10]

No doubt a lot of this was enabled by Maurice and I've argued the same multiple times. Why work hard when you don't have to. This has a trickle down effect on the rest of the team, if the teams best player floats then why should I bust my ass. I think a lot of that came to a head this year with players who naturally juat work hard having enough of it and calling a spade a spade.

Anyhow we need a coach who will not play favorites ansmd will hold everyone to the same high standard of compete.

I don’t think it caused others not to work as hard. That would be a poor reflection on their own character imo. I didn’t see Ehlers, Connor, PLD or Morrissey really mail it in. Even guys who had poor seasons like Pionk and Schmidt, wasn’t from not busting their ass most nights.
I think it just caused a lot of friction within the team, fractured the team and led to most having no trust in the coaching staff and even those higher up like Chevy.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

I don’t think Scheifele defensive woes were enabled by Maurice like some seem to believe.

When you’re around something that is slowly deteriorating and progressively getting worse you don’t notice it as much.

His lack of effort was really evident by the end of last season and it was noticed to an extent by Maurice when he benched Scheifele.

This year Scheifele took his lack of defensive game and effort to an all new low.

I also just wonder how much of Scheifele defensive woes come from the fact when he first started in the league the Jets had a pretty stacked defensive core that was good at transition and he didn’t necessarily need to put full effort into learning the defensive side of the game because of it.

 

[LowLefty]

No doubt a lot of this was enabled by Maurice and I've argued the same multiple times. Why work hard when you don't have to. This has a trickle down effect on the rest of the team, if the teams best player floats then why should I bust my ass. I think a lot of that came to a head this year with players who naturally juat work hard having enough of it and calling a spade a spade.

Anyhow we need a coach who will not play favorites ansmd will hold everyone to the same high standard of compete.

I'd say that it is just as likely that the org in general, coddled the stars - with Maurice being the trigger man.
It's wrong in all sense but might be the result of how this organization decided to manage (or mismanage) key players.

Is there a possibility that Maurice was asked to bend over backwards for certain players? Never call them out or piss them off - we can't have unhappy stars and we don't want to scare anyone away (consider the market).
Is it possible that Maurice was following orders?

Is it possible that Maurice was left walking a fine line between following orders, maintaining a happy locker room, and winning? It's easy to see how this could get out of hand in a hurry - and it did.

Maurice is finally left holding the bag - team is a mess, certain players are now beyond coaching, and others feel abandoned, misused, ignored.

It isn't that much of a leap IMO - Scheif as your franchise center was on a pedestal - he could do no wrong.
Do fans actually think that Maurice was so dumb that he was unable to see how this treatment may impact players?

The guy is not dumb - and he knows where his paycheck is coming from.
So he sees the writing on the wall - he's a puppet - and he has lost the room.
He quits.

Most will not agree with any of this - it's easier to view is as simply a coaching problem.
I've heard all the other scenarios where the coach is very bad - no real need to toss them back into the discussion.
This is just another view

 

[surixon]

I don’t think it caused others not to work as hard. That would be a poor reflection on their own character imo. I didn’t see Ehlers, Connor, PLD or Morrissey really mail it in. Even guys who had poor seasons like Pionk and Schmidt, wasn’t from not busting their ass most nights.
I think it just caused a lot of friction within the team, fractured the team and led to most having no trust in the coaching staff and even those higher up like Chevy.

Yeah most still worked hard. I think I more meant it like you said. There wasn't trust so they didn't buy in as much.

 

[Jack7222]

I'd say that it is just as likely that the org in general, coddled the stars - with Maurice being the trigger man.
It's wrong in all sense but might be the result of how this organization decided to manage (or mismanage) key players.

Is there a possibility that Maurice was asked to bend over backwards for certain players? Never call them out or piss them off - we can't have unhappy stars and we don't want to scare anyone away (consider the market).
Is it possible that Maurice was following orders?

Is it possible that Maurice was left walking a fine line between following orders, maintaining a happy locker room, and winning? It's easy to see how this could get out of hand in a hurry - and it did.

Maurice is finally left holding the bag - team is a mess, certain players are now beyond coaching, and others feel abandoned, misused, ignored.

It isn't that much of a leap IMO - Scheif as your franchise center was on a pedestal - he could do no wrong.
Do fans actually think that Maurice was so dumb that he was unable to see how this treatment may impact players?

The guy is not dumb - and he knows where his paycheck is coming from.
So he sees the writing on the wall - he's a puppet - and he has lost the room.
He quits.

Most will not agree with any of this - it's easier to view is as simply a coaching problem.
I've heard all the other scenarios where the coach is very bad - no real need to toss them back into the discussion.
This is just another view

I don't think Maurice is dumb at all. He made out extremely well here. What does Maurice have to gain from doing anything that might be unpopular with the team leadership, in a situation where Maurice' own job is basically guaranteed as long as that leadership is happy?

I do think he ended up in a kind of untenable position, but he contributed to making it that way too.

 

[cbcwpg]

I don’t think Scheifele defensive woes were enabled by Maurice like some seem to believe.

When you’re around something that is slowly deteriorating and progressively getting worse you don’t notice it as much.

His lack of effort was really evident by the end of last season and it was noticed to an extent by Maurice when he benched Scheifele.

This year Scheifele took his lack of defensive game and effort to an all new low.

I also just wonder how much of Scheifele defensive woes come from the fact when he first started in the league the Jets had a pretty stacked defensive core that was good at transition and he didn’t necessarily need to put full effort into learning the defensive side of the game because of it.

If he was a rookie I could buy that he needs to learn the defensive side of the game, but he's not a rookie, and his numbers show that he knew the defense side of things in the past. When he came in to the NHL he was like every junior player... no defense, and Maurice worked on that with him. And he did learn.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]SEASON[/TH]
[TH]GP[/TH]
[TH]+/-[/TH]
[TH]PIM[/TH]
[TH]PIM/G[/TH]
[TH]TA[/TH]
[TH]GA[/TH]
[TH]TA/GA[/TH]
[TH]BS[/TH]
[TH]H[/TH]
[TH]H/G[/TH]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]2017-18[/TD]
[TD]Jets[/TD]
[TD]60[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]0.3[/TD]
[TD]47[/TD]
[TD]33[/TD]
[TD]1.42[/TD]
[TD]31[/TD]
[TD]57[/TD]
[TD]0.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2018-19[/TD]
[TD]Jets[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]38[/TD]
[TD]0.5[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]1.54[/TD]
[TD]54[/TD]
[TD]54[/TD]
[TD]0.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2019-20[/TD]
[TD]Jets[/TD]
[TD]71[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]0.6[/TD]
[TD]57[/TD]
[TD]46[/TD]
[TD]1.24[/TD]
[TD]49[/TD]
[TD]34[/TD]
[TD]0.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2020-21[/TD]
[TD]Jets[/TD]
[TD]55[/TD]
[TD]-6[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]0.2[/TD]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]1.37[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]0.6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-22[/TD]
[TD]Jets[/TD]
[TD]67[/TD]
[TD]-17[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]0.3[/TD]
[TD]49[/TD]
[TD]60[/TD]
[TD]0.82[/TD]
[TD]47[/TD]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD]0.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

His TA/GA ( take away / give away and higher is better ) was very good in 2017 thru 2019 and still decent in 2019 thru 2021 with a slight fall off, which could be attributed to our defensive core being less capable. But this season his numbers cratered. And that's with a defensive core that is better ( IMO ) than it was 2 seasons ago. His H ( hits ) are also at a low over the last 3 seasons compared to the previous 2 before 2019. It just appears that his physical involvement and engagement have fallen off.

I'm not saying Maurice caused or enabled Scheifele's defense drop off, that's on Scheifele, but Maurice didn't do anything to correct it which enabled it to continue.

 

[surixon]

I'd say that it is just as likely that the org in general, coddled the stars - with Maurice being the trigger man.
It's wrong in all sense but might be the result of how this organization decided to manage (or mismanage) key players.

Is there a possibility that Maurice was asked to bend over backwards for certain players? Never call them out or piss them off - we can't have unhappy stars and we don't want to scare anyone away (consider the market).
Is it possible that Maurice was following orders?

Is it possible that Maurice was left walking a fine line between following orders, maintaining a happy locker room, and winning? It's easy to see how this could get out of hand in a hurry - and it did.

Maurice is finally left holding the bag - team is a mess, certain players are now beyond coaching, and others feel abandoned, misused, ignored.

It isn't that much of a leap IMO - Scheif as your franchise center was on a pedestal - he could do no wrong.
Do fans actually think that Maurice was so dumb that he was unable to see how this treatment may impact players?

The guy is not dumb - and he knows where his paycheck is coming from.
So he sees the writing on the wall - he's a puppet - and he has lost the room.
He quits.

Most will not agree with any of this - it's easier to view is as simply a coaching problem.
I've heard all the other scenarios where the coach is very bad - no real need to toss them back into the discussion.
This is just another view

I'm sure there is blame to go around but ultimately Maurice is the one that is incharge of deployment. As coach it is his responsibility to get the players to play the right way. I'm sure there was pressure from above to keep the top guys happy but I imagine you have that same pressure in every other organization.

Maurice on numerous occasions indicated he didn't coach his top guys as he felt they didn't need it. Whether that is truly what he believed or he was spending more energy trying to get other players to modify their games to what he wanted and didn't have time is up for speculation. At the end of the day we have a bunch of top offe side players that don't seem to play functional defense so it certainly doesn't look like there was any coaching going on. That or the players didn't listen.

If the org told Maurice to turn a blind eye the they need to reevaluate what principles they are looking for in players.

What is refreshing is that it seems this young core that is becoming more vocal doesn't agree with the lack of effort or poor play and want that changed. If you have a strong room that preaches and and holds itself accountable to those standards then it makes things far easier for the coach and org to do likewise.

 

[LowLefty]

I'm sure there is blame to go around but ultimately Maurice is the one that is incharge of deployment. As coach it is his responsibility to get the players to play the right way. I'm sure there was pressure from above to keep the top guys happy but I imagine you have that same pressure in every other organization.

Maurice on numerous occasions indicated he didn't coach his top guys as he felt they didn't need it. Whether that is truly what he believed or he was spending more energy trying to get other players to modify their games to what he wanted and didn't have time is up for speculation. At the end of the day we have a bunch of top offe side players that don't seem to play functional defense so it certainly doesn't look like there was any coaching going on. That or the players didn't listen.

If the org told Maurice to turn a blind eye the they need to reevaluate what principles they are looking for in players.

What is refreshing is that it seems this young core that is becoming more vocal doesn't agree with the lack of effort or poor play and want that changed. If you have a strong room that preaches and and holds itself accountable to those standards then it makes things far easier for the coach and org to do likewise.

It's all up for speculation -

 

[Guffman]

Hidden Guff Cam footage from Jets locker room:

"Schief, you're a real dog f**ker out there."

"STFU, you old gap toothed loser. You should rent the space between your teeth to the refugees from Ukraine."

"Ahhh HA HA! Good one, Mark! LMAO!!"

Shouting from X-Box Live over Ehler's headset: "Tell Mark and Blake that I don't need those assh*les to be a super star. Now everyone knows I wasn't the issue."

"Guys, this is Blake's team. He is the best captain in the league and deserves to play with who he wants and in all empty net situations. If you don't like it, GTFO."

 

[ThinIce61]

I'd say that it is just as likely that the org in general, coddled the stars - with Maurice being the trigger man.
It's wrong in all sense but might be the result of how this organization decided to manage (or mismanage) key players.

Is there a possibility that Maurice was asked to bend over backwards for certain players? Never call them out or piss them off - we can't have unhappy stars and we don't want to scare anyone away (consider the market).
Is it possible that Maurice was following orders?

Is it possible that Maurice was left walking a fine line between following orders, maintaining a happy locker room, and winning? It's easy to see how this could get out of hand in a hurry - and it did.

Maurice is finally left holding the bag - team is a mess, certain players are now beyond coaching, and others feel abandoned, misused, ignored.

It isn't that much of a leap IMO - Scheif as your franchise center was on a pedestal - he could do no wrong.
Do fans actually think that Maurice was so dumb that he was unable to see how this treatment may impact players?

The guy is not dumb - and he knows where his paycheck is coming from.
So he sees the writing on the wall - he's a puppet - and he has lost the room.
He quits.

Most will not agree with any of this - it's easier to view is as simply a coaching problem.
I've heard all the other scenarios where the coach is very bad - no real need to toss them back into the discussion.
This is just another view

I have been saying much of this for quite awhile and been shot down many times by the boards experts. Maurice is a shit coach, etc, etc. He has 775 more coaching wins than I do and based on how the "firings, if you will" of Lowry and the other coaches it does appear that the organizations mindset is not to ruffle any feathers. Coaches are hired to be fired, it's nothing new and every coach that ever was knows that and that at any time their number will be up.

By the same token players are being paid exorbitant amounts of money to play their craft ie: do their job and as such if they are not performing up to expectations they should be held to task for that. Just like I or anyone else with any kind of job is or should be.

It's not unreasonable to surmise that at some point Maurice "stopped coaching" certain players because they stopped feeling like they "needed" to be coached. I also think it is no small coincidence that the team's and certainly players change in attitude coincided with Byfuglien leaving. IMO of course there was no longer there was no longer any opposition for those in the locker room who felt they were running the asylum.

And while it likely wasn't the toughest decision in the world for the organization to rid themselves of an Evander Kane, to me it's a whole different story for Maurice to go to Chevy or Chipman and say " listen, something needs to be done about Wheeler & Scheifele. Surely Maurice felt that would have been his one way ticket out of town. This season, with the whole 2 years of Covid mess and likely some burnout after 24 years of coaching he for the sake of himself and his family decided to step aside. Was he allowed to quit rather than be fired? Maybe but if so in all likelihood there would have more of a succession plan in place. I think Maurice stepping down was as much a shock as Byfuglien suddenly deciding he was done. And look what that did to the team. We were back in Jets 1.0 territory using whatever mongrel Dman wandered in from the cold just so we could have 6 D dressed for a game.

 

[gojetsgo]

people defending maurice conveniently leaving out the fact that he had the exact same problems in carolina... also they ignore the fact that laine was benched/called out to the media as well as connor/ehlers...

 

[LowLefty]

people defending maurice conveniently leaving out the fact that he had the exact same problems in carolina... also they ignore the fact that laine was benched/called out to the media as well as connor/ehlers...

Just providing other possible scenarios - is that OK with you?

 

[Imcanadianeh]

people defending maurice conveniently leaving out the fact that he had the exact same problems in carolina...

Go to any team forum that has had the same coach for an extended period of time will have the same complaints as people here had of Maurice the same way Carolina fans had of him there.

Next coach if here longer than four years the same complaints will start to happen.

No fan base loves their coach and the longer they’re there the more things fans will eventually find fault it.

Not saying Maurice didn’t have faults and make mistakes, every coach does no matter how good/successful they are, it’s just the longer they’re around one organization the more the fan base accumulates over time about stuff they don’t like.

 

[gojetsgo]

Just providing other possible scenarios - is that OK with you?

and just countering those scenarios - is that OK with you?

 

[LowLefty]

and just countering those scenarios - is that OK with you?

They've already been countered in dozen's of posts pretty much saying the same thing -

Is it possible that there is more to it than that?
Don't assume people are missing these big points - or conveniently leaving them out.
They've been covered.
This is just another scenario that some might enjoy engaging without assuming there are no intentional omissions.

 

[Scheifele55]

If Winnipeg were to move Scheifele, what type of return do you think we would receive? Could we get a Jake Sanderson and a draft pick? If so a 1st? 2nd? late? Scheifele's salary works to our advantage in dealing him.

 

[surixon]

If Winnipeg were to move Scheifele, what type of return do you think we would receive? Could we get a Jake Sanderson and a draft pick? If so a 1st? 2nd? late? Scheifele's salary works to our advantage in dealing him.

I would use the Eichel trade return as the basis. Top prospect, good roster players and a 1st.

No idea if Ottawa would move Sanderson or not. I'm not sure they are a fit with where they are in their development window.

 

[Huffer]

If Winnipeg were to move Scheifele, what type of return do you think we would receive? Could we get a Jake Sanderson and a draft pick? If so a 1st? 2nd? late? Scheifele's salary works to our advantage in dealing him.

I'm not sure if Ottawa would be looking to try to "win now". For them, they're building and having Sanderson on an ELC is huge.

I think it would be a team either looking to start contending, or needs a piece to "get over the top".

The Canes IMO are a good example. They look really good in these playoffs. What if they get to the ECF or SC and lose? They likely lose Trochek in the offseason. Do they throw money at him and not spend assets, or spend assets and go for Scheifele?

I'd say Surixon's idea of top prospect, good roster player(s), and a 1st is a pretty reliable scenario.

I'd prefer Jarvis, but something around Necas, Morrow, and a 1st makes the Canes a better team for 2 more runs.

Necas is a 40 point guy and needs a new deal, but won't make 6 million like Scheifele, so the Jets could also use the extra savings, AND move a D and add another top 6/9 forward with skill to the team. Morrow could be ready in a year or 2 and be a physical RHD that can skate.