Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[Ducky10]

Mark was all in until 2018-19
The 2019 exit interview was odd, Mark barely spoke a word, why?
Was it a personal issue or a team issue?
Nobody knows the what the disconnect was related to but there was a disconnect.

Ok, that’s not what the post I responded to was referring to at all. Unless I’m misreading it, quite possible.
I’d also argue Scheifele’s performance started to slip as early as 2018-19.
I think the disconnect likely came after Buff and Trouba departed and the Jets blueline was a complete tire fire until this past year. The team was on the rise in 17-18, had a disappointing playoffs in 18-19 and then it all fell apart. The team should have had more than a 2 year window but it never addressed the gaping holes created on the blue line. Pretty discouraging.

 

[Cnile]

Ok, that’s not what the post I responded to was referring to at all. Unless I’m misreading it, quite possible.
I’d also argue Scheifele’s performance started to slip as early as 2018-19.
I think the disconnect likely came after Buff and Trouba departed and the Jets blueline was a complete tire fire until this past year. The team was on the rise in 17-18, had a disappointing playoffs in 18-19 and then it all fell apart. The team should have had more than a 2 year window but it never addressed the gaping holes created on the blue line. Pretty discouraging.

Ok sorry I may have not responded properly.
In any case there’s a remarkable change in Mark regardless of the actual date and most of us HF folks have seen it.
Why?
Who the hell knows why?

 

[LowLefty]

I mean couldn't it just be the simplest answer?

Yes, it could be -
Also could be other things, or the more complex answers - thus the conversations

 

[Jetsfan79]

I have no proof but I suspect Schiefele is intentionally sabotaging his game to force a trade. Putting up points so other teams would want him but tanking defensely to cause noise within the market.

Here's my rationale for this opinion. I have heard whispers that PLD was quoted as saying " the room is a mess" first Summer after he arrived here. And with the exit interviews, this dynamic seems to be really the case.

Now what has caused the divide is up for debate. It's seems obvious that lack of accountability is an issue. And what Stastny and Schiefele said (and didn't say) speaks volumes.

But here is why it may not be that simple.

We all know Schiefele is (was?)a hardcore hockey nerd. If he is such a nerd, he would know being a team player is essential for a team having success . You cannot be that hardcore into hockey and not realize this. We have also seen a version of him where he *is* more engaged and ok defensively. So we know he has it in him.

So to me this signals something happened to make him want to be out of here. What happened? who knows?

Some possibilities

- simply doesn't get along with his teammates. Either due to personality conflicts or something more problematic.

-Schiefele, overly obsessed with wanting team success, sees signs/ dysfunction that's points to a team that he feels doesn't have what it takes to win a cup. So he angles to leave and select a team he thinks can win within the lifespan of his career.

- pouting that his contract is not worth more. Which could explain why he's doing all those endorsements.

Could be a combination of all of the above or maybe none of the above. I realize some the theories are petty and selfish rationales . But after hearing what Schiefele said during his exit interview, maybe not too far fetched that he thinks that way

 

[WpgSteve]

My personal suspicion is that Scheifele is depressed. I had a similar experience in my late 20s. I had achieved everything that I thought would make me happy, but still wasn't. I started to believe that my place of employment was the problem and that a change would fix everything. Small, everyday challenges morphed into personal slights. I became disgruntled and left my job even though I had opportunities to succeed there and was highly valued by the organization. I also had good friends there who cared about me, but I discounted the importance of that.

Before leaving, my job performance deteriorated. It wasn't an intentional thing. I wanted to perform and understood it was in my best interest to do so. But I just couldn't will myself to do it.

I see a lot of myself at that time in Scheifele and I wish him well. Eventually you run out of changes to make and have to accept the life you have. That is a scary point when you reach it.

*This is a pure hot take. I have no idea how Scheifele feels and don't presume to. It is just my theory based on observation and personal experience.

 

[ps241]

Hard to say why things came to an end with Mark and perhaps we’ll never know or perhaps we will find out one day but I don’t really care. The only thing I care about now is the Jets and 55 part ways and we do ok in the trade.

Until we clean up this mess I doubt any player is committing long term to Winnipeg.

 

[Teemusalami204]

Hard to say why things came to an end with Mark and perhaps we’ll never know or perhaps we will find out one day but I don’t really care. The only thing I care about now is the Jets and 55 part ways and we do ok in the trade.

Until we clean up this mess I doubt any player is committing long term to Winnipeg.

The way lowry shot his head over to Sheif when he mentioned playoffs says something is really rotten imo . It felt like sheif was talking knowing lowry was sippin on the haterade

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

The way lowry shot his head over to Sheif when he mentioned playoffs says something is really rotten imo . It felt like sheif was talking knowing lowry was sippin on the haterade

Maybe something just caught his eye.

 

[Mooche]

Hard to say why things came to an end with Mark and perhaps we’ll never know or perhaps we will find out one day but I don’t really care. The only thing I care about now is the Jets and 55 part ways and we do ok in the trade.

Until we clean up this mess I doubt any player is committing long term to Winnipeg.

Great post.

The Scheifele issue is now in the elephant in the room for the Jets. There may be other issues with the team, undeniably, but this is the first domino that needs to get rectified.

Hoping Chevy can retrieve the best haul possible in return and the Jets can start to have some clarity on what the future looks like for the club post-Scheifele.

Afterwards, I'm hoping, personally, for dealing with PLD and what he wants in terms of his future. Is it going to be here long term or not?

 

[BoneDocUK]

But Scheifele didn’t have those problems in 17-18 or in the years prior to that. To say it was a personality thing with Scheifele ignores the fact it wasn’t always this way. What was glossed over was the problems never being dealt with, by Maurice and by extension Chevy.

I’m not sure Maurice’s relationship with the players was one that was conducive to fixing such a thing, particularly with his veteran players. They weren’t accountable and that relationship likely prevented them from being held accountable. Lots going if examples to indicate so.

I think this is dead-on.

Maurice picked his core, and rolled with them in the good years, and then kept rolling with them even as team play started to erode significantly and "ruffled feathers" (how condescending is that term?) indicated locker room unrest.

In that room were a few tiers: the Mo-anointed at the top, with minimal coaching and almost no accountability for poor play -- even when playing when clearly injured and unable to play properly, as we saw with Wheeler and the whole "He isn't injured / Wait, he is injured and you nasty media people are big meanies for not seeing that even though we pretended he wasn't" farce.

Then there was the up and coming players who hit a ToI and opportunities wall regardless of their performance and took a lot of the heat when things went poorly (hello, Nik!), and then was whoever wasted a few minutes on the 4th.

55 has been the golden boy for a long time. Always harder to set limits after the fact than to establish them in the first place. It's a lousy situation, and I doubt it gets fixed with a new coaching staff, especially if that coach is Carlyle.

Time to shift him for a good haul, and save themselves 1) the hassle and drama of de-Scheifing the locker room for another year to lay there grounds for a healthier culture; 2) leaving the way clear to extend PLD as the #1c during some prime years and 3) aligning the team we have with a coaching staff who can work with them rather than reverting to form whenever things get a bit slippery. IMO.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

I think this is dead-on.

Maurice picked his core, and rolled with them in the good years, and then kept rolling with them even as team play started to erode significantly and "ruffled feathers" (how condescending is that term?) indicated locker room unrest.

In that room were a few tiers: the Mo-anointed at the top, with minimal coaching and almost no accountability for poor play -- even when playing when clearly injured and unable to play properly, as we saw with Wheeler and the whole "He isn't injured / Wait, he is injured and you nasty media people are big meanies for not seeing that even though we pretended he wasn't" farce.

Then there was the up and coming players who hit a ToI and opportunities wall regardless of their performance and took a lot of the heat when things went poorly (hello, Nik!), and then was whoever wasted a few minutes on the 4th.

55 has been the golden boy for a long time. Always harder to set limits after the fact than to establish them in the first place. It's a lousy situation, and I doubt it gets fixed with a new coaching staff, especially if that coach is Carlyle.

Time to shift him for a good haul, and save themselves 1) the hassle and drama of de-Scheifing the locker room for another year to lay there grounds for a healthier culture; 2) leaving the way clear to extend PLD as the #1c during some prime years and 3) aligning the team we have with a coaching staff who can work with them rather than reverting to form whenever things get a bit slippery. IMO.

I certainly agree with a lot in this post.

But I have this uneasy feeling that TN will try to repair the rift there first and will only hire a new coaching staff. Probably someone with connections to TNSE (Carlyle?).

Praying to the Hockey Gods that I'm wrong.

 

[TommyKillian]

Just took a little browse on Natural Stat Trick and Hockey Reference and wish I hadn't. Anyone remember when Scheifele was a 23 year old point-per-game centre that played a solid all-around game and even got Selke votes a couple years!? I don't blame Maurice for thinking that Scheifele might one day have a statue out front of Bell MTS Place or Babcock for saying he was one of the best players in the world. It's mind-blowing that we've gotten to the spot we are in now. My head is still spinning just thinking about it.

And it all seems to be accounted for by something as simple as attitude issues. The greatest tragedy of Jets 2.0.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I certainly agree with a lot in this post.

But I have this uneasy feeling that TN will try to repair the rift there first and will only hire a new coaching staff. Probably someone with connections to TNSE (Carlyle?).

Praying to the Hockey Gods that I'm wrong.

Just let the Hockey Gods know that Chevy spends his summer at the cabin. They'll take care of the rest.

 

[Gil Fisher]

Not sure it really makes sense for the Islanders, or if they're serious about moving Barzal, but was toying with the idea of a bigger trade along the lines of

Scheifele and Heinola for Barzal and Pullock

I think the Jets probably need to add a bit.

 

[bennylundholm]

55's interview confirmed he is "all about me".
You would hope a guy who wears an A, has a contract for 2 more years, and gets a shitload of icetime and PP time would be "all about WE" in his interview.
"Me" and "I" were predominant throughout.
This guy gave a half assed effort last year, quit on his teammates and for those saying a new coach would change him I'd disagree.
Ship him out and get what we can. There will be more than a few teams thinking they can get his best next year.

 

[tbcwpg]

Not sure it really makes sense for the Islanders, or if they're serious about moving Barzal, but was toying with the idea of a bigger trade along the lines of

Scheifele and Heinola for Barzal and Pullock

I think the Jets probably need to add a bit.

The Jets would need to add quite a bit.

 

[10Ducky10]

The Jets would need to add quite a bit.

I'd add Dillon!!!!!

 

[Jets 31]

Maurice playing Scheifele, Wheeler and even Connor way too much was a big part of the problem with this team and i think they came to expect that many minutes. We had a team good enough that he could have spread out the minutes way more a few years ago. Even this past season we were way better with Scheifele and Wheeler on the 3rd line but Maurice or even Scheifele and Wheeler themselves said i'll have none of this winning without Scheifele and Wheeler on the 1st line getting 25 minutes. Maurice messed this team up good and how did Ehlers not demand a trade under Maurice?

 

[Mooche]

Just took a little browse on Natural Stat Trick and Hockey Reference and wish I hadn't. Anyone remember when Scheifele was a 23 year old point-per-game centre that played a solid all-around game and even got Selke votes a couple years!? I don't blame Maurice for thinking that Scheifele might one day have a statue out front of Bell MTS Place or Babcock for saying he was one of the best players in the world. It's mind-blowing that we've gotten to the spot we are in now. My head is still spinning just thinking about it.

And it all seems to be accounted for by something as simple as attitude issues. The greatest tragedy of Jets 2.0.

Shocking, really.

Fondest Scheifele moment for me was that run during the 17-18 playoff where he was legit a walking scoring play.

Everything he touched in a decent scoring area was bound to end up in the opponents net.

Felt the sky was the limit for the kid at that point and that he was ready to vault in the upper echelon of C in the game.

How we got to this point is just beyond disappointing.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Sad to watch - especially when oilers and flames look good under new coaches... whoever made the call - Chipman or Chevy - to keep Maurice after the blues series holds the responsibility for this mess

 

[Guffman]

But Scheifele didn’t have those problems in 17-18 or in the years prior to that. To say it was a personality thing with Scheifele ignores the fact it wasn’t always this way. What was glossed over was the problems never being dealt with, by Maurice and by extension Chevy.

I’m not sure Maurice’s relationship with the players was one that was conducive to fixing such a thing, particularly with his veteran players. They weren’t accountable and that relationship likely prevented them from being held accountable. Lots going if examples to indicate so.

It’s pretty disappointing that a “hockey nerd” who wanted to be amongst the best players in the league needs a head coach to yell at him for screwing the pooch for a few seasons.

Sorry, but if you’re a professional, veteran player, you shouldn’t need a coach to bust your balls. This is Schiefele not holding himself to a high standard.

 

[bennylundholm]

Maurice playing Scheifele, Wheeler and even Connor way too much was a big part of the problem with this team and i think they came to expect that many minutes. We had a team good enough that he could have spread out the minutes way more a few years ago. Even this past season we were way better with Scheifele and Wheeler on the 3rd line but Maurice or even Scheifele and Wheeler themselves said i'll have none of this winning without Scheifele and Wheeler on the 1st line getting 25 minutes. Maurice messed this team up good and how did Ehlers not demand a trade under Maurice?

Great post.
Not having 27 on the first PP unit was criminal.
Easily our most talented player.
Top teams have 4 lines rolling with the bottom 6 playing upwards of 10 minutes.
Frustrating to watch.

 

[ThinIce61]

I'd add Dillon!!!!!

And Wheeler, Vesalainen, Sanford, Brooks, Dave Lowry, Charlie Huddy, Kevin Sawyer, and our anthem singer.

 

[Flair Hay]

I think the huge minutes Maurice had Scheifele and Wheeler playing kind of naturally led to Scheif and Wheels holding back that 5 or 10% of energy spent playing defense on a lot of shifts. And those habits just slowly grew. These guys would have more energy to spend defensively if they were playing a few less minutes.

Scheifele has in no way acknowledged his defensive game sucks. He says he likes his game, in the prime of his career, etc. I think to an extent he has tried. The demands on him were to go out and play against the best in the world. That's just not the level of player he is.

On a team where he gets more 2nd line usage he will feast and those defensive struggles likely disappear. New coaching, new linemates, less quality of competition. Use him more like Jeff Carter or Stamkos instead of Patrice Bergeron...

Whether that is in Winnipeg or another team remains to be seen I guess...

 

[Heldig]

Not sure it really makes sense for the Islanders, or if they're serious about moving Barzal, but was toying with the idea of a bigger trade along the lines of

Scheifele and Heinola for Barzal and Pullock

I think the Jets probably need to add a bit.

Yeah, that would require a HUGE add from the Jets.