Player Discussion: Mark S Discussion

[hockeyarena]

Playing devils advocate here... Aside from tone, what's so different between what Scheif is saying and what is being reported that Dubois is saying? Need to think about it, what's the direction of the team, need to speak with my agent and my family, etc.
Believe me, I'm not impressed with 55's end of season presser, but I think this has been stewing for a while and the lid as blown and with it, everything is being blown out of proportion, which also makes any kind of reconciliation (Jet's aren't getting viable offers that are worth it to move him) that much more difficult.

dubois is an RFA, Scheifele has been here for 10 years and is under contract for 2 more years on a contract THAT HE AGREED TO. That's the difference.

 

[surixon]

Playing devils advocate here... Aside from tone, what's so different between what Scheif is saying and what is being reported that Dubois is saying? Need to think about it, what's the direction of the team, need to speak with my agent and my family, etc.
Believe me, I'm not impressed with 55's end of season presser, but I think this has been stewing for a while and the lid as blown and with it, everything is being blown out of proportion, which also makes any kind of reconciliation (Jet's aren't getting viable offers that are worth it to move him) that much more difficult.

Dubois isn't under contract whereas Mark is. Dubois has yet to commit to a long term deal and like all players in his position is weighing his options.

Mark had already committed and is under contract for a couple of years still. He has no recourse other then to ask for a trade. His comments were quite out of place for a player who is still signed whereas Dubois's made sense based on his contractual status.

Add in how both players played this season and the leadership Dubois showed in the season and press conference and Dubois was dialed in and engaged on and off the ice whereas Mark looked checked out moat of the year.

So it is much more believable to me that Dubois is a player who is invested but wants some clarity before committing whereas Mark completely looks like a player who has half the foot out the door.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Playing devils advocate here... Aside from tone, what's so different between what Scheif is saying and what is being reported that Dubois is saying? Need to think about it, what's the direction of the team, need to speak with my agent and my family, etc.
Believe me, I'm not impressed with 55's end of season presser, but I think this has been stewing for a while and the lid as blown and with it, everything is being blown out of proportion, which also makes any kind of reconciliation (Jet's aren't getting viable offers that are worth it to move him) that much more difficult.

For me, it's a combination of his unwillingness to try to do anything defensively and focus only on padding his stats for the past 3+ years. When I couple that with what he said, just makes it seem like he doesn't want to be here, and is now expected to be traded.

This seems to coincide right with 18/19 season when it was rumoured there was a big discontentment in the locker room. I think many were upset with Schief and Wheeler getting ice time no matter their play while others were in the doghouse after one mistake. I think someone finally spoke up, and an argument insued.

Schief has been mailing it in ever since.

This is all speculation, of course. But, seeing that kind of unwillingness to give it his all while Dubois busted his ass, and coupled with Dubois indicating that there were some who were not trying, just gives the impression that Schief is one of those players who could care less

 

[Guido Borsato]

In fairness to Scheifele, he knows from past behaviour that the ONLY way management/ownership does ANYTHING is if they get pushed into a corner. They RARELY do anything proactively.

I suspect Scheifele asked for a trade a long time ago and still hasn't gotten it.

Now he is going to extreme measures to get it - not playing D, sulky attitude, not doing media, calling out the team in the press conference etc.

You think he's not talking to Trouba, Copp, Roslovic, and Lemieux about the playbook to get out of town?

The writing on the wall was when he changed agents in early 2020 to Craig Oster and the Jets knew it. He likely asked for a trade around that time.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

My impression of Scheifele's interview is that it was an 'all about me' interview. He threw in one statement about loving Winnipeg but the rest of it was about him individually. I didn't get much 'team first' from it. He is still under contract, but he is talking to his agent and needs to understand the direction of his team, blah blah blah. WTF? The guy strikes me as an entitled prima donna, which might explain his (lack of defensive) effort since late 2018. If you can get a decent return, turn the page and send him packing.

BTW, you can draw a straight line between <Mark's two way game (lack of) effort> and Paul Maurice <I don't coach a half a dozen guys>.

 

[rkp]

My impression of Scheifele's interview is that it was an 'all about me' interview. He threw in one statement about loving Winnipeg but the rest of it was about him individually. I didn't get much 'team first' from it. He is still under contract, but he is talking to agent and needs to understand the direction of his team, blah blah blah. WTF? The guy strikes me as an entitled prima donna, which might explain his (lack of defensive) effort since late 2018. If you can get a decent return, turn the page and send him packing.

BTW, you can draw a straight line between <Mark's two way game (lack of) effort> and Paul Maurice <I don't coach a half a dozen guys>.

bingo

 

[Ducky10]

Watching that 55/17 presser again, the look on Lowry’s face is priceless. He’s like “what the f*** is this clown going on about”?

 

[Jetsfan79]

I wasn't happy with what Mark said or how he has played. But I'm not as hung up on his "me" answer as some people are. Remember he was asked about his desire to stay here long term.

 

[jetsv2]

I wasn't happy with what Mark said or how he has played. But I'm not as hung up on his "me" answer as some people are. Remember he was asked about his desire to stay here long term.

Before that he was asked about the season and he talked about how much he likes his game and feels he is playing good hockey. The guy has no self awareness and clearly doesn't think he needs to play defense. People are starting to realize how selfish he has become.

 

[ps241]

Playing devils advocate here... Aside from tone, what's so different between what Scheif is saying and what is being reported that Dubois is saying? Need to think about it, what's the direction of the team, need to speak with my agent and my family, etc.
Believe me, I'm not impressed with 55's end of season presser, but I think this has been stewing for a while and the lid as blown and with it, everything is being blown out of proportion, which also makes any kind of reconciliation (Jet's aren't getting viable offers that are worth it to move him) that much more difficult.

If you were reading them as transcripts without any context then yes I agree with you. However, its all about context IMO.

Mark is under contract for two more seasons and he is speaking like he is a pending free agent or something. Mark is signaling he wants out IMO.

PLD doesn't have a contract yet next season. It makes sense to me that PLD is taking stock of whether he wants to commit long term to an organization that doesn't appear to hold leader like Scheifele accountable.

My 2 cents

Post automatically merged: May 3, 2022

Watching that 55/17 presser again, the look on Lowry’s face is priceless. He’s like “what the f*** is this clown going on about”?

That was very awkward.

 

[Guerzy]

I still can't believe the fall from grace Scheifeme has taken here. It's pretty incredible, really. I always envisioned him wearing the C, never playing for another team, having his 55 one day raised to the rafters, being a true life-long Winnipeg Jet, and if we were ever going to win a Stanley Cup it would be on his back. Personally as a Jets fan, today, I can't wait to see his selfish self-absorbed ass walk out the door. I hope this was the last we see of him as part of this organization. Unless he can do a complete 180 and pull his head directly out of his ass, but that's a tall order and ask at this point and I think the damage has been done here and it is beyond repair with him as a Winnipeg Jet in that locker room. I think he has done too much of a disservice to his teammates, especially as a someone carrying so much responsibility and role with the team.

For so long this board has voiced what they thought was going on, what was being watched on the ice, and so much of it seems so damn accurate now. The observations made in re; to 55 have been echoed here for years, and in typical TNSE/Chevy fashion, it literally came to a head this week and blew up in their faces. Chevy can downplay this all he wants, the reactions from these players were not made on an emotional whim. They were made with composure, grace and frustration stemming from weeks, months and years of this all going sideways and sinking. They were made methodically and with purpose. It's ugly and laughable that this was able to fester and reach this point.

I still think this roster was a near perfect mix to contend this season. But after seeing and hearing what we have from the players, it's no wonder this never came together. This thing was doomed from the beginning. So much seems clear now from the outside looking in after hearing players speak the last couple of weeks and after the season ending game. Sure we don't know exactly, factually speaking, but it seems pretty clear to piece this puzzle together unless you're incredibly naive.

I am not sure when this organization will learn how to deal with team-related issues, but their track record of being proactive is down right abysmal and I sure hope collectively this can be a wake up call, though I have my doubts there. There is patient and methodical, yes, but then there is incompetence with the inability to act and lead for the betterment of the organization.

Truthfully, it should have never got to this point. And that is 100% on Chipman/Chevy. The two very men at the top. Their inability to manage this team and organization allowed a head coach to stay on board way beyond his expiration date, players clearly became disgruntled with systems, or a lack there of, players were not held accountable, the list just goes on. Maybe they have tried to correct the issues, surely they have, but nothing on the ice indicated that and from each player we have heard from there is absolutely no indication this was handled properly at any point along the way.

This whole thing just stinks.

 

[cbcwpg]

Mark is under contract for two more seasons and he is speaking like he is a pending free agent or something. Mark is signaling he wants out IMO.

Evander Kane, no matter what people might think of him as a human, asked for a trade every season he was in Winnipeg, BUT he never mailed it in. He was under contract, he was getting paid, and he played the best he could to help the team succeed.

That's what irks me most about Chef's comments... If he wants to be traded, fine, ask for it in private, but you act and comment in public like you are an UFA... and you don't mail it in while you are waiting to be traded..... he actually thinks he's playing well.

 

[Jetsfan79]

Before that he was asked about the season and he talked about how much he likes his game and feels he is playing good hockey. The guy has no self awareness and clearly doesn't think he needs to play defense. People are starting to realize how selfish he has become.

I could be wrong but didn't he also say he needs to improve?

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I still can't believe the fall from grace Scheifeme has taken here. It's pretty incredible, really. I always envisioned him wearing the C, never playing for another team, having his 55 one day raised to the rafters, being a true life-long Winnipeg Jet, and if we were ever going to win a Stanley Cup it would be on his back. Personally as a Jets fan, today, I can't wait to see his selfish self-absorbed ass walk out the door. I hope this was the last we see of him as part of this organization. Unless he can do a complete 180 and pull his head directly out of his ass, but that's a tall order and ask at this point and I think the damage has been done here and it is beyond repair with him as a Winnipeg Jet in that locker room.

For so long this board has voiced what they thought was going on, what was being watched on the ice, and so much of it seems so damn accurate now. The observations made in re; to 55 have been echoed here for years, and in typical TNSE/Chevy fashion, it literally came to a head this week and blew up in their faces. Chevy can downplay this all he wants, the reactions from these players were not made on an emotional whim. They were made with composure, grace and frustration stemming from weeks, months and years of this all going sideways and sinking. It's ugly and laughable that this was able to fester and reach this point.

I still think this roster was a near perfect mix to contend this season. But after seeing and hearing what we have from the players, it's no wonder this never came together. This thing was doomed from the beginning. So much seems clear now from the outside looking in after hearing players speak the last couple of weeks and after the season ending game. Sure we don't know exactly, factually speaking, but it seems pretty clear to piece this puzzle together unless you're incredibly naive.

I am not sure when this organization will learn how to deal with team-related issues, but their track record of being proactive is down right abysmal and I sure hope collectively this can be a wake up call, though I have my doubts there. There is patient and methodical, yes, but then there is incompetence with the inability to act and lead for the betterment of the organization.

Truthfully, it should have never got to this point. And that is 100% on Chipman/Chevy. The two very men at the top. Their inability to manage this team and organization allowed a head coach to stay on board way beyond his expiration date, players clearly became disgruntled with systems, or a lack there of, players were not held accountable, the list just goes on. Maybe they have tried to correct the issues, surely they have, but nothing on the ice indicated that and from each player we have heard from there is absolutely no indication this was handled properly at any point along the way.

This whole thing just stinks.

It is small city syndrome and can happen in pro sports. The community is small and shit happens and it can wreck a team. I will leave things at that because it is all speculation but my guess shit has happened to this team AGAIN. There is only so much you can do. That old and horrible saying BOYS WILL BE BOYS applies here. Its ok in New York or LA or Chicago or any massive city but here if something happens EVERYONE knows.

 

[Huffer]

It is small city syndrome and can happen in pro sports. The community is small and shit happens and it can wreck a team. I will leave things at that because it is all speculation but my guess shit has happened to this team AGAIN. There is only so much you can do. That old and horrible saying BOYS WILL BE BOYS applies here. Its ok in New York or LA or Chicago or any massive city but here if something happens EVERYONE knows.

This doesn't sound good.

 

[surixon]

I still can't believe the fall from grace Scheifeme has taken here. It's pretty incredible, really. I always envisioned him wearing the C, never playing for another team, having his 55 one day raised to the rafters, being a true life-long Winnipeg Jet, and if we were ever going to win a Stanley Cup it would be on his back. Personally as a Jets fan, today, I can't wait to see his selfish self-absorbed ass walk out the door. I hope this was the last we see of him as part of this organization. Unless he can do a complete 180 and pull his head directly out of his ass, but that's a tall order and ask at this point and I think the damage has been done here and it is beyond repair with him as a Winnipeg Jet in that locker room.

For so long this board has voiced what they thought was going on, what was being watched on the ice, and so much of it seems so damn accurate now. The observations made in re; to 55 have been echoed here for years, and in typical TNSE/Chevy fashion, it literally came to a head this week and blew up in their faces. Chevy can downplay this all he wants, the reactions from these players were not made on an emotional whim. They were made with composure, grace and frustration stemming from weeks, months and years of this all going sideways and sinking. It's ugly and laughable that this was able to fester and reach this point.

I still think this roster was a near perfect mix to contend this season. But after seeing and hearing what we have from the players, it's no wonder this never came together. This thing was doomed from the beginning. So much seems clear now from the outside looking in after hearing players speak the last couple of weeks and after the season ending game. Sure we don't know exactly, factually speaking, but it seems pretty clear to piece this puzzle together unless you're incredibly naive.

I am not sure when this organization will learn how to deal with team-related issues, but their track record of being proactive is down right abysmal and I sure hope collectively this can be a wake up call, though I have my doubts there. There is patient and methodical, yes, but then there is incompetence with the inability to act and lead for the betterment of the organization.

Truthfully, it should have never got to this point. And that is 100% on Chipman/Chevy. The two very men at the top. Their inability to manage this team and organization allowed a head coach to stay on board way beyond his expiration date, players clearly became disgruntled with systems, or a lack there of, players were not held accountable, the list just goes on. Maybe they have tried to correct the issues, surely they have, but nothing on the ice indicated that and from each player we have heard from there is absolutely no indication this was handled properly at any point along the way.

This whole thing just stinks.

To me this stems from the org being far too afraid to deal talent that they hope things work themselves out.

Hey I get it, we aren't a desirable market that is able to attract talent as well as other orgs in FA and trades so I understand the reluctance to part with it when we have acquired it. Mark was a drafted player that morphed into an elite top 10 C for a while. I get wanting to try to repair the relationship as we aren't getting a top 10 C back in a trade.

I understand them wanting to make an example out of Trouba so that you don't see a bunch of players try to force their way out of here while UFA.

With all that being said this org needs to have a much better pulse on its room. It needs to understand when a situation is fixable and when a situation isn't and quickly act to remedy that. It's not easy to deal a player like Mark but if he is sewing seeds of discontent in the room then he needs to go and go quickly. This stuff shouldn't come to needing to throw a track suit in the shower or players airing the rooms dirty laundry in the press.

Like I said I get wanting to preserve the talent in the org but all the talent in the world won't help this org if it's not invested and if it's actively causing disruption.

Chipman/Chevy really need to learn this damn lesson already.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

This doesn't sound good.

Well a lot of money and free time in small city can be bad. Its why you as a GM hope they find a local girl, get married and she has control of the situation lol

 

[surixon]

It is small city syndrome and can happen in pro sports. The community is small and shit happens and it can wreck a team. I will leave things at that because it is all speculation but my guess shit has happened to this team AGAIN. There is only so much you can do. That old and horrible saying BOYS WILL BE BOYS applies here. Its ok in New York or LA or Chicago or any massive city but here if something happens EVERYONE knows.

Yikes!

 

[Howard Chuck]

Well a lot of money and free time in small city can be bad. Its why you as a GM hope they find a local girl, get married and she has control of the situation lol

I would like to know who the guys are that are taking a toll on the team.

Post automatically merged: May 3, 2022

I guess you could take a look at who has had extended time off.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I would like to know who the guys are that are taking a toll on the team.

I think its just in general. Playing and eing around Junior teams in the WHL this would happen a lot. Small town, girls, booze whatever. Shit happens everyone knows. Fights break out etc.. You would think a city the size of Winnipeg would hide some of that but that isn't the case

 

[ps241]

I still can't believe the fall from grace Scheifeme has taken here. It's pretty incredible, really. I always envisioned him wearing the C, never playing for another team, having his 55 one day raised to the rafters, being a true life-long Winnipeg Jet, and if we were ever going to win a Stanley Cup it would be on his back. Personally as a Jets fan, today, I can't wait to see his selfish self-absorbed ass walk out the door. I hope this was the last we see of him as part of this organization. Unless he can do a complete 180 and pull his head directly out of his ass, but that's a tall order and ask at this point and I think the damage has been done here and it is beyond repair with him as a Winnipeg Jet in that locker room.

For so long this board has voiced what they thought was going on, what was being watched on the ice, and so much of it seems so damn accurate now. The observations made in re; to 55 have been echoed here for years, and in typical TNSE/Chevy fashion, it literally came to a head this week and blew up in their faces. Chevy can downplay this all he wants, the reactions from these players were not made on an emotional whim. They were made with composure, grace and frustration stemming from weeks, months and years of this all going sideways and sinking. It's ugly and laughable that this was able to fester and reach this point.

I still think this roster was a near perfect mix to contend this season. But after seeing and hearing what we have from the players, it's no wonder this never came together. This thing was doomed from the beginning. So much seems clear now from the outside looking in after hearing players speak the last couple of weeks and after the season ending game. Sure we don't know exactly, factually speaking, but it seems pretty clear to piece this puzzle together unless you're incredibly naive.

I am not sure when this organization will learn how to deal with team-related issues, but their track record of being proactive is down right abysmal and I sure hope collectively this can be a wake up call, though I have my doubts there. There is patient and methodical, yes, but then there is incompetence with the inability to act and lead for the betterment of the organization.

Truthfully, it should have never got to this point. And that is 100% on Chipman/Chevy. The two very men at the top. Their inability to manage this team and organization allowed a head coach to stay on board way beyond his expiration date, players clearly became disgruntled with systems, or a lack there of, players were not held accountable, the list just goes on. Maybe they have tried to correct the issues, surely they have, but nothing on the ice indicated that and from each player we have heard from there is absolutely no indication this was handled properly at any point along the way.

This whole thing just stinks.

Great post and spot on.

The issue with the Winnipeg Jets starts with the owner. By extending Chevy it means that Mark is signing off on, or is directly complicit in fiddling while Rome was burning and it turns out Rome has been burning since 2018-19. We are now at an infection point in Jets 2.0 history. I hope Mark and Chevy get the ship righted and SOMEONE takes charge of the organization as opposed to trying to run a popularity/loyalty contest or whatever Mark is doing.

To be clear I do not think this is a lost cause at all. Its an opportunity for Mark to learn from his mistakes and grow as an owner and I hope he takes it.

 

[surixon]

Great post and spot on.

The issue with the Winnipeg Jets starts with the owner. By extending Chevy it means that Mark is signing off on, or is directly complicit in fiddling while Rome was burning and it turns out Rome has been burning since 2018-19. We are now at an infection point in Jets 2.0 history. I hope Mark and Chevy get the ship righted and SOMEONE takes charge of the organization as opposed to trying to run a popularity/loyalty contest or whatever Mark are doing.

Maybe time to get a president of hockey opps in here to provide a layer between Mark and the team.

I guess the silver lining is that we were able to build up a great team that played real well as a unit after Kane was dealt until 2019. Hopefully the same happens now.

 

[cbcwpg]

Just speculation on my part, but the more I listen to what Scheifele said and how he came across,

When he says " I like where my game is at " I'm convinced he's getting this impression of his play from some source outside of Jets' organization... someone like Adam Oates.

 

[ps241]

Maybe time to get a president of hockey opps in here to provide a layer between Mark and the team.

I guess the silver lining is that we were able to build up a great team that played real well as a unit after Kane was dealt until 2019. Hopefully the same happens now.

They have done lots of good things over the years. My hope is that they learn from their mistakes.

 

[surixon]

Just speculation on my part, but the more I listen to what Scheifele said and how he came across,

When he says " I like where my game is at " I'm convinced he's getting this impression of his play from some source outside of Jets' organization... someone like Adam Oates.

Maybe. But the Jets have other Oates clients like Morrissey who don't at all carry themselves the same way on the ice. I just have a hard time blaming Oates for his lack of perspective. Oates also has plenty of other elite players like O'Reilly who are elite two-way players so it's not like Adam is just telling his players ro be one dimensional forwards.