Marc Bergevin Press Conference 1 PM

[salbutera]

Not sure why you need "confirmation" when the Canes literally just paid a 1st and 3rd to get KK but whatever here, Tribute - Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Goodbye and Good Luck

There is no need for mental gymnastic here, the Canes even gave an heads up to the Habs before dropping the OS. So you know that the trade offer mirror the compensation of the OS.

One of the talking head (Friedman I believe) stated the Canes trade offer was less than 1st + 3rd. I.e Offer sheet compensation was greater.

Someone had posted it yesterday

 

[sandviper]

I’m still not quite understanding, with all due respect, how or why you think the Canes didn’t really want KK when they sent an offer sheet for him and we’re trying to trade for him.

Maybe they’re much more comfortable overpaying in salary for 1 year than overpaying in assets.

and given it’s just for 1 year and they have the cap space.

why the hell not?

Plus, use the opportunity for revenge even though it’s not about revenge. Or so they say.

 

[417]

Plus, use the opportunity for revenge even though it’s not about revenge. Or so they say.

Of course revenge was part of it…and to be honest, that factor probably clouded their better judgement.

But I’ve seen so many people here and on Twitter throw out the theory that the Canes sent the OS not expecting the Habs to match and it just doesn’t add up to me.

 

[Belial]

I’m still not quite understanding, with all due respect, how or why you think the Canes didn’t really want KK when they sent an offer sheet for him and we’re trying to trade for him.

Maybe they’re much more comfortable overpaying in salary for 1 year than overpaying in assets.

and given it’s just for 1 year and they have the cap space.

why the hell not?

Because overpaying slightly in a trade while having full control for contract negotiations make more sense?

 

[BLONG7]

Thank you so much! This is a fantastic community with my favourite posters doing a great job as per usual. I’m officially gone from this forum and will miss the banter. Thanks for the opportunity throughout the years and keep yourselves well. You might find me on other forums, so please say hi. All the best!

We will miss those amazing GDT's
Regards,

 

[Ozmodiar]

Well, it kinda confirms they didn't really want him and just tried to screw us up.

If they indeed wanted him the smartest thing was to get him in a trade even if overpaying a little over that compensation threshold.

Talks might have broken off, and the Canes just decided to write the offer sheet without giving MB “final and best offer” and a chance to circle back to KK’s camp before his vacation.

Also, the Canes might have liked the lose-lose nature of the OS. Either matching or not is a shot across the bow. OTOH, a trade offer that’s refused has no impact.

 

[WG]

Bergevin using Jake Evans as a comparison to prove how we don't f*** up development is just mindboggling and should put a lot of question marks in the heads of big Bergie defenders. I know it won't. But it should. Jake f***ing Evans saw the NHL at 23 year old. Dumbass.

And while everybody in the org is patting themselves on the back...what exactly is Jake Evans? I'm glad for him, 7th rounder to NHL is a tough slog, and good on him to make it. But if Jake Evans didn't exist, the team could freely sign someone out of the Nate Thompson Memorial 4th liner bin every year for 900K to do his job. "Developing" a player who represents one of the most easily replaceable types of player isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

 

[Sorinth]

Well, it kinda confirms they didn't really want him and just tried to screw us up.

If they indeed wanted him the smartest thing was to get him in a trade even if overpaying a little over that compensation threshold.

It in no way confirms that.

They have Necas to extend next season. I didn’t go up and down their roster, but they may had offered a player, picks and maybe a cap dump. Who knows? Point is, they may had decided they’ll just give up the 1st and 3rd and maybe move assets later.

It’s also possible they had a 1st and 3rd on the table plus maybe a player which may not had been enough for Bergy. Maybe Bergy was interested, but he wanted also x, y and z and this was just going back and forth and going nowhere.

So with that said, they went the OS route which they deemed a sure thing and hassle free way to try to get the player they wanted.

It's simply non sensical to think they would be willing to pay a 1st and a 3rd with an offer sheet and not be willing to do it in a trade. They might have come in with an opening offer of something else to try and get him cheaper, but they were for sure willing to pay at least the 1st and the 3rd.

Maybe they came in offering less planning to negotiate and Bergevin told them KK wasn't available for trade so they went with the offersheet. But that only makes Bergevin look bad.

 

[417]

Because overpaying slightly in a trade while having full control for contract negotiations make more sense?

Depends what you value more..the asset or the cap space, which again you know you already have, for 1 year.

IF you REALLY want Kotkaniemi…the choice seems easy to me.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

That makes no sense, why would they not be willing to offer a 1st and 3rd when it means that they would be able to sign KK long term for less. You can argue maybe argue they weren't willing to go beyond a 1st and 3rd because they valued any extras more then cap space but even that is a stretch. A trade is always going to be preferable to an offer sheet because the only way the offer sheet isn't accepted is by overpaying by a lot.

Can you not see the obvious????

Tom Dundon was only looking for revenge. They offered MB garbage and were hoping that he would match the offer sheet. Ultimately Dundon wanted to put MB in a lose/lose situation......thankfully MB is a top GM and quickly made the team even stronger while saddling the Hurricanes with a horrendous contract.

If you think Waddell wanted any part of this and insist on viewing this under the lens of a hockey trade then you will continue to misread the entire situation. If Waddell wanted a winger worth this hassle he would have filed an OS for Petterson. Only the most delusional onlooker would conclude that the Hurricanes identified Kotkaniemi as the asset that they most wanted to pursue.

Both MB and Waddell were put in this situation by an egomaniac owner.......I guarantee you MB is happier than Waddell right now as Carolina had no need for KK and are now without a first and 3rd round pick.

Not only did MB absolutely own this exchange, he did it with class which is more than can be said about the infantile behaviour of Hurricane management and their trailer park fans that they are pandering to.

 

[Theodore450]

Of course revenge was part of it…and to be honest, that factor probably clouded their better judgement.

But I’ve seen so many people here and on Twitter throw out the theory that the Canes sent the OS not expecting the Habs to match and it just doesn’t add up to me.

The argument is, that we shouldnt have been able to acquire (or overpay) a C under salary and cap. So it would force us to match in that situation. But somehow Arizona thought it was better to throw every actual NHL player away, so they have a 25 year old top 6 forward under contract for a only a 1st that won’t be top 10. If they where asking for 2 1st this trade doesn’t happen and we keep KK .

I think the best situation played out. Dvorak will have a similar impact to Plecky and Suzuki can be the offensive all around 1 C franchise player

 

[Belial]

Depends what you value more..the asset or the cap space, which again you know you already have, for 1 year.

IF you REALLY want Kotkaniemi…the choice seems easy to me.

It's not just the cap space for this year, what if KK has a bad season next year?

Are they going to let him walk because he's nowhere close to his next QO in terms of value?

If they really wanted him they should've offered more than a 1st and a third and therefore assure themselves that they get full control over his autonomy.

Now basically everything's in KK's hands.

 

[417]

It's not just the cap space for this year, what if KK has a bad season next year?

Are they going to let him walk because he's nowhere close to his next QO in terms of value?

If they really wanted him they should've offered more than a 1st and a third and therefore assure themselves that they get full control over his autonomy.

Now basically everything's in KK's hands.

Some teams operate with belief in their players and do everything they can to ensure they’ll be successful.

They have a great coach and guys like Aho and Teravainen to make him feel comfortable and a guy like Jordan Staal who he can lean on for experience.

I mean yes, it’s for sure a risk but if you did your homework, you’re not as worried about potential consequences as you are the reward.

None of this isn’t to say that all of this won’t blow up in their face mind you.

 

[Belial]

Talks might have broken off, and the Canes just decided to write the offer sheet without giving MB “final and best offer” and a chance to circle back to KK’s camp before his vacation.

Also, the Canes might have liked the lose-lose nature of the OS. Either matching or not is a shot across the bow. OTOH, a trade offer that’s refused has no impact.

It in no way confirms that.

Again striking a trade would've been a smarter move in terms of a hockey perspective.

 

[Sorinth]

Can you not see the obvious????

Tom Dundon was only looking for revenge. They offered MB garbage and were hoping that he would match the offer sheet. Ultimately Dundon wanted to put MB in a lose/lose situation......thankfully MB is a top GM and quickly made the team even stronger while saddling the Hurricanes with a horrendous contract.

If you think Waddell wanted any part of this and insist on viewing this under the lens of a hockey trade then you will continue to misread the entire situation. If Waddell wanted a winger worth this hassle he would have filed an OS for Petterson. Only the most delusional onlooker would conclude that the Hurricanes identified Kotkaniemi as the asset that they most wanted to pursue.

Both MB and Waddell were put in this situation by an egomaniac owner.......I guarantee you MB is happier than Waddell right now as Carolina had no need for KK and are now without a first and 3rd round pick.

Not only did MB absolutely own this exchange, he did it with class which is more than can be said about the infantile behaviour of Hurricane management and their trailer park fans that they are pandering to.

What a load of BS. If Dundon wanted revenge he wouldn't go after a guy whose only ever been the 3rd line center and was ended the year a healthy scratch. They would go after someone Montreal actually values.

The reason they went for KK is precisely because MTL didn't appear to value him very much. If you see a player you think is going to be very good but his current team is treating as an after thought that's the guy you go after with an offer sheet. Going after a star player like Petterson is just a waste of everyones time because the team is always going to match when it's a star player.

If all they wanted to do was screw with MTL's cap, why didn't they respond to Aho's offersheet that very summer by handing out offersheets to Lehkonen and Armia? Could it be because they saw those guys as 3rd liners and therefore not valueable?

 

[Belial]

Some teams operate with belief in their players and do everything they can to ensure they’ll be successful.

They have a great coach and guys like Aho and Teravainen to make him feel comfortable and a guy like Jordan Staal who he can lean on for experience.

I mean yes, it’s for sure a risk but if you did your homework, you’re not as worried about potential consequences as you are the reward.

None of this isn’t to say that all of this won’t blow up in their face mind you.

They clearly did their homework therefore he'll be playing on the wing on their third line next season. Great boost of confidence for the kid and they clearly show him that they believe in him.

 

[Sorinth]

Again striking a trade would've been a smarter move in terms of a hockey perspective.

Which is why it's obvious that Bergevin simply wasn't willing to trade him for a 1st and a 3rd. If Bergevin was willing to do that, then it would've happened.

 

[417]

They clearly did their homework therefore he'll be playing on the wing on their third line next season. Great boost of confidence for the kid and they clearly show him that they believe in him.

Who knows what line he’ll play on…lines change all of the time. I don’t think they’re super strong on LW so he could find himself playing with Aho soon enough.

it’ll be interesting to follow his path in the coming years.

Still find it a shame it didn’t work out here, not a scenario I anticipated a few years ago.

 

[OnTheRun]

It's not just the cap space for this year, what if KK has a bad season next year?

Are they going to let him walk because he's nowhere close to his next QO in terms of value?

If they really wanted him they should've offered more than a 1st and a third and therefore assure themselves that they get full control over his autonomy.

Now basically everything's in KK's hands.

You answer you own question, why would they care about QO'ing him if they think he had a bad season?
You just don't QO him and make a market value offer to him as a UFA if you want to keep him for some reasons, he's free to look elsewhere, but he keep pilling the "bad season" he won't find anyone to overpay him.

 

[Belial]

Which is why it's obvious that Bergevin simply wasn't willing to trade him for a 1st and a 3rd. If Bergevin was willing to do that, then it would've happened.

Are you even following the discussion?

Carolina if they really wanted him should've offered more than a first and a third assuring themselves that KK wouldn't go anywhere next season.

As per reports they never offered more than the offer sheet compensation.

 

[WG]

Brady Tkachuk has turned down 8m x 8 from Sens..just imagine if we drafted him..lol

If the Habs had BT, he'd have been neutered by now. OMFG, he took a penalty! Chastise, chastise! The Sens are in a different spot, they haven't been contending so they have been freer to let young players do their thing. But the Habs always seem hell bent on draining whatever bit of uniqueness a player has.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Which is why it's obvious that Bergevin simply wasn't willing to trade him for a 1st and a 3rd. If Bergevin was willing to do that, then it would've happened.

My guess? MB was probably asking for a player in return. Possibly a prospect or a young NHL'er. But Carolina only wanted to give picks. So maybe that is why MB (and Friedman) said the return from the compensation was similar to what Carolina was offering in a trade. Not what Montreal wanted, but what Carolina was offering.

At the time, the offer was for KK as an unsigned RFA in exchange for picks.
The conclusion was KK at $6.1M for a 1st and 3rd.

 

[Belial]

You answer you own question, why would they care about QO'ing him if they think he had a bad season?
You just don't QO him and make a market value offer to him as a UFA if you want to keep him for some reasons, he's free to look elsewhere, but he keep pilling the "bad season" he won't find anyone to overpay him.

Yes so the logic here is to keep the asset and not loosing a first round pick for nothing.

You can crap on Bergevin all day long but since he's here he never lost a valuable asset for nothing.

KK was basically transformed into Dvorak.

We'll see how that develops over the years.

But Carolina with this stupid offer sheet just risked losing a first-rounder for absolutely nothing if KK walks as a UFA next season.

The smarter thing to do was to slightly overpay in a trade if they really wanted KK and keep him under control without the risk of losing him for nothing.

 

[Wats]

If you can get me excited about an alternative…by all means.

People said same thing pre-Bergevin.

 

[417]

People said same thing pre-Bergevin.

Don't know who those people are...I'm just saying, the constant barrage of posts demanding he be fired are kind of played out for me.

Because it assumes the alternative, whatever alternative, is better.