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It still make laugh that Detroit is this supposed horror story when the current win-now Canucks are basically considered to be the same caliber tier as them. Oh no, our worst case scenario is being mediocre like we already are.
 
Bubbles said:
I don't see how it's unrealistic when many, many NHL teams have done it. New Jersey is a perfect example where they tanked for 6 years and boom, they are a playoff team in the 7th year and they have a solid core all signed on great contracts. Ottawa has a 1C, 1D and 1W and they are just coming out of their tank now. I expect a NJ-esque rise this year.
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ottawa is a great example of how vancouver should be operating. they have stutzle and chabot (their pettersson and hughes. tho probably not as good as pettersson and hughes) and then on top of that they have tkachuk, norris, batherson, sanderson and zub. they used their stockpiled assets and cap space to add giroux, tarasenko and chychrun. that's not even including pinto and debrincat/kubalik

how are vancouver going to add that kind of talent given their cap situation and their lack of tradeable assets? especially if you take lekkerimaki, willander and future firsts off the table?
 
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valkynax said:
Side note, cap space is projected to go up by quite a bit, will that be enough for us to keep Kuzmenko?
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Yeah I think cap friendly projects the cap to be at 92 and even if we sign Petey to a 12.5 contract, and 8M on Kuz, we can still spend like 8M on 2 more players and like 5-6 on another 2 more assuming we fill the 4th line and 3rd paring with min wage guys.
 
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Bubbles said:
Why is there fear that you can't get those players via a tank/rebuild? It's not hard at all to get those type of players.

I don't see how it's unrealistic when many, many NHL teams have done it. New Jersey is a perfect example where they tanked for 6 years and boom, they are a playoff team in the 7th year and they have a solid core all signed on great contracts. Ottawa has a 1C, 1D and 1W and they are just coming out of their tank now. I expect a NJ-esque rise this year.




I really don't understand the correlation between getting people in seats and not having a rebuild. Did Toronto or Montreal have financial troubles when they decided to tank? Did Ottawa, the 2nd smallest Canadian market, suffer too much when they decided to tank and rebuild?

For some reason, people here think that the Vancouver market can't withstand a full rebuild. But Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal can because....reasons?
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I don’t think it’s fear, it’s more of a why the f*** do you want to get rid of a top 5 center in the league to only try to find another one right away.
It’s not impossible to do so but the question is how many times do you have to draft in the top before you can find one? And what happens if you don’t. it’s not like top line centers are easy to find, not every team has a 100pt center.

I think the point you miss is, why do another rebuild for 6,7 whatever years when we already have the 1C,D,W,G combo. Like are 2C and extra 1W and top4 D so damn hard to get we have to throw everything away to try again?

Would it not be plausible for this management group to add another top6 forward and another top4D from now to the start of next season, 24-25? I think it’s very plausible and if they do that, how far are we from being a contender?
 
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arttk said:
Yeah I think cap friendly projects the cap to be at 92 and even if we sign Petey to a 12.5 contract, and 8M on Kuz, we can still spend like 8M on 2 more players and like 5-6 on another 2 more assuming we fill the 4th line and 3rd paring with min wage guys.
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Fair enough, thanks for the clarification.

Basically, unless skeletor and moleman do something extremely dumb, our cap should be manageable?
 
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valkynax said:
Fair enough, thanks for the clarification.

Basically, unless skeletor and moleman do something extremely dumb, our cap should be manageable?
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next year they're fine. the year after it could get tight depending on what they do next year. boeser and kuzmenko expire but the oel penalty goes up 2.5m so they need to find a cheap top 6 forward to replace boeser probably
 
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valkynax said:
Fair enough, thanks for the clarification.

Basically, unless skeletor and moleman do something extremely dumb, our cap should be manageable?
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Well unless they spend like 10M on like Tyler Myers, yes we are in a pretty good spot even if Miller declines and Petey, Kuz and Hronek are beyond fairly compensated.
 
credulous said:
next year they're fine. the year after it could get tight depending on what they do next year. boeser and kuzmenko expire but the oel penalty goes up 2.5m so they need to find a cheap top 6 forward to replace boeser probably
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I was a doubter but hoping that Lekkerimaki can be that Boeser replacement on an ELC. Would go a big way to helping us right the ship.
 
credulous said:
ottawa is a great example of how vancouver should be operating. they have stutzle and chabot (their pettersson and hughes. tho probably not as good as pettersson and hughes) and then on top of that they have tkachuk, norris, batherson, sanderson and zub. they used their stockpiled assets and cap space to add giroux, tarasenko and chychrun. that's not even including pinto and debrincat/kubalik

how are vancouver going to add that kind of talent given their cap situation and their lack of tradeable assets? especially if you take lekkerimaki, willander and future firsts off the table?
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ottawa is where they are because when they started to tear down the team in 2018, their only young assets of note were chabot, wolanin, and batherson, the oldest of which were 21. you can say this about any team that did a teardown tank/rebuild like ottawa or new jersey.

it's pointless to say vancouver *should* be operating like this when they had jim benning who did not stockpile draft picks, overspent on the wrong players, lost older players for nothing, and mismanaged the cap completely. these are things you cannot go back and undo.
 
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PuckMunchkin said:
If pretty good is with no real room to improve the roster then yes. Yes we are.
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Assumptions:
Petey 12.5M
Kuz 8M
Hronek 7.5
Raty 2.5 because I don’t know what he’s gonna cost

You still have 25M left for 8 spots assuming you are icing a min wage 4th line.
You can still afford 2 more 8M contracts and like 1 more 4-5 M contract and still fill out the roster.

I am pretty sure there is room for some big improvements.
 
arttk said:
Assumptions:
Petey 12.5M
Kuz 8M
Hronek 7.5
Raty 2.5 because I don’t know what he’s gonna cost

You still have 25M left for 8 spots assuming you are icing a min wage 4th line.
You can still afford 2 more 8M contracts and like 1 more 4-5 M contract and still fill out the roster.

I am pretty sure there is room for some big improvements.
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pettersson 12.5
miller 8
kuzmenko 8
hughes 7.85
hronek 7.5
demko 5
garland 4.95
mikheyev 4.75
soucy 3.25
raty 2.5
oel (4.75)

rounding down that's 69 million. you think the cap is going to be 94m?

it's also only 10 players signed. you need 13 more for a full roster not 8

their actual cap space (assuming they spend to the cap in 2024 and i see no reason they wouldn't) is

boeser 6.65
kuzmenko 5.5
suter 1.6
hoglander 1.1
oel (2.35 - 4.75) -2.4

they'll have 12m plus whatever the cap increase in 2025 is with kuzmenko needing to be signed and 4 roster spots to fill
 
credulous said:
pettersson 12.5
miller 8
kuzmenko 8
hughes 7.85
hronek 7.5
demko 5
garland 4.95
mikheyev 4.75
soucy 3.25
raty 2.5
oel (4.75)

rounding down that's 69 million. you think the cap is going to be 94m?

it's also only 10 players signed. you need 13 more for a full roster not 8
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Assuming Garland is going to be gone considering they have been and will be trying to trade him away and also assuming cap is at 92M then.
 
arttk said:
Assumptions:
Petey 12.5M
Kuz 8M
Hronek 7.5
Raty 2.5 because I don’t know what he’s gonna cost

You still have 25M left for 8 spots assuming you are icing a min wage 4th line.
You can still afford 2 more 8M contracts and like 1 more 4-5 M contract and still fill out the roster.

I am pretty sure there is room for some big improvements.
Click to expand...
In UFA..?
 
God said:
ottawa is where they are because when they started to tear down the team in 2018, their only young assets of note were chabot, wolanin, and batherson, the oldest of which were 21. you can say this about any team that did a teardown tank/rebuild like ottawa or new jersey.

it's pointless to say vancouver *should* be operating like this when they had jim benning who did not stockpile draft picks, overspent on the wrong players, lost older players for nothing, and mismanaged the cap completely. these are things you cannot go back and undo.
Click to expand...

People still endlessly want the team to make the moves they should have made in 2016 or 2018 in 2023 when that ship has long since sailed.
 
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MS said:
People still endlessly want the team to make the moves they should have made in 2016 or 2018 in 2023 when that ship has long since sailed.
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We are now stuck with this insane plan that you and a handful of others here championed. A plan that wont lead to a contention window with Elias Pettersson.
 
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