Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

[lawrence]

All this time we thought Francesco Aquilini was the real GM of the team behind the scenes, turns out it was Quinn Hughes the whole time

..... well this is stupid too, I love quinn, but it's not up to him. Just because we are adding some draft picks for one damn season doesn't mean we are going through a full rebuild. We can do what Pittsburgh did in its early years. When Crosby arrived, they immediately surrounded him with free agents. they missed the playoffs the first year, the 2nd year they made it and lost 3rd year they made it to the finals 4th year, they won the cup.

 

[Cancuks]

We didn't need to make the Hronek trade until the draft. At least see how the lottery turns out and if Hronek is healthy. It's almost like the team thinks they can squeak into the playoffs with their AHL roster.

..... well this is stupid too, I love quinn, but it's not up to him. Just because we are adding some draft picks for one damn season doesn't mean we are going through a full rebuild. We can do what Pittsburgh did in its early years. When Crosby arrived, they immediately surrounded him with free agents. they missed the playoffs the first year, the 2nd year they made it and lost 3rd year they made it to the finals 4th year, they won the cup.

Dylan Larkin has no problem with the moves the Wings are making and they're a better team than the Canucks. Of course the Wings drafting is 100X better than the Canucks. Maybe management is afraid of drafting the wrong guy.

 

[rea]

If everyone keeps bringing up gotta surround them n keep them happy, well then, they need to accountable too. Going into every year, they sound and act like they ready, but turn in dogshit performances. Mb they need to be part of the process of helping build. And if it doesn't work, then are they not part of the problem? If they leave at the first signs of distress this young, is that the culture u want any player coming in to feel? This is why the sedins were and are so important, because they had to go thru this and they did it w class and grace when the world shat on them. They took paycuts to be get a better team. As a whole, to spark the notion u won't go thru a rebuild, do your part and speak up. If some moves aren't the type of players u think fit the mold, maybe u need to hold them accountable too.

 

[DonnyNucker]

We didn't need to make the Hronek trade until the draft. At least see how the lottery turns out and if Hronek is healthy. It's almost like the team thinks they can squeak into the playoffs with their AHL roster.


Dylan Larkin has no problem with the moves the Wings are making and they're a better team than the Canucks. Of course the Wings drafting is 100X better than the Canucks. Maybe management is afraid of drafting the wrong guy.

You don’t know they could wait until the draft. Perhaps DET told teams to make your best offer as he was getting dealt by the TDL.

 

[rea]

You don’t know they could wait until the draft. Perhaps DET told teams to make your best offer as he was getting dealt by the TDL.

And if that's the case, is he the only rhd that's available ever? Is he the only one that could fill that void they so desperately seek? If they had 1 target and 1 target only, well then, there are soo many more problems that I don't even want to venture calling out at this point

 

[DonnyNucker]

And if that's the case, is he the only rhd that's available ever? Is he the only one that could fill that void they so desperately seek? If they had 1 target and 1 target only, well then, there are soo many more problems that I don't even want to venture calling out at this point

As Ms Pointed out earlier , young top 4 RHD rarely are available. No guarantees an opportunity for a similar player would materialize. Not defending the trade, just understand why they made it now

 

[Diogenes92]

If there is any buyouts, any, honestly, logical and sane fan, will abruptly give up, no matter what side of the fence u stand. If you keep using the argument that there is a window to be contending in, being saddled w so much dead cap for that many years, then that very idea is such a big hindrance to the bottom line. Remember this team is already willing to burn draft picks so in this time frame you won't have any bullets, you don't have young players finally challenging for spots and being cost controlled on elcs, you do not pass go, you do not collect 200$. And all this because you failed to see the reality of things years before. I digress though. As you were

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

Here's reference. You will be hit w dead cap til 30-31

So, you're saying a buyout would be short-sighted and ill-timed for a team that should be rebuilding, but has decided to do a turbo-charged retool?

It's only a matter of time until they do it, then.

The Canucks have been doing the exact opposite of what they should be doing for a decade.

 

[racerjoe]

But, for the record, you do acknowledge the compete now chance is unlikely to actually work? I believe you have recently stated that. Otherwise, sure, a lot of the above is personal preference. Overall I agree the point is to try to win, but I don't think the compete now approach is actually more likely to achieve that, and in fact, I think the opposite is true.

Also, who are the "absolutely elite players". Pettersson, for sure. But Hughes is probably not even a top 10 defensemen so I'm not sure on him. Elite, definitely. And Demko? Who currently has a sub 900 svp? Not too sure that I would go for that quite yet.

I would say yes it rarely works... but it also rarely works the other way.

And by that I don't mean never rebuild, just some are saying its the only way, when in reality that just isn't true. Every team will have a start point in a cycle.

 

[rea]

As Ms Pointed out earlier , young top 4 RHD rarely are available. No guarantees an opportunity for a similar player would materialize. Not defending the trade, just understand why they made it now

If that's truly the case, fair. I'm not going to go thru the trouble of looking back for it and trying to find every single trade that went down. What I can do quickly is look at the top teams and check their rosters, and see the rhd on the teams. You know what the vast majority are? Self developed and drafted.

 

[DonnyNucker]

If that's truly the case, fair. I'm not going to go thru the trouble of looking back for it and trying to find every single trade that went down. What I can do quickly is look at the top teams and check their rosters, and see the rhd on the teams. You know what the vast majority are? Self developed and drafted.

Well yea that’s the point. They never get traded. Canucks obviously aren’t ok waiting for 3 or 4 years before a drafted dman has the possibility of contributing.

 

[canucksfan]

In the cap era a team needs a solid core and a cheaper supporting cast. The Nucks do have a decent core(defense is very weak) but their supporting cast is too expensive and it seems they can't get rid of them, and equally problematic, they don't have good players on cheap contracts.

 

[rea]

Well yea that’s the point. They never get traded. Canucks obviously aren’t ok waiting for 3 or 4 years before a drafted dman has the possibility of contributing.

So therein lies the problem that I am even speaking of. It's irrelevant what I think on how they build the team, I think its the wrong approach. Yes I have the advantage of hindsight to prove my point, but if this team and the fans think there is a shortcut to the end, history has shown that is next to never accurate. And that's what this post is about right? How we feel about management? If fans are ok with it cool cool, don't let me stop your run. If just making the playoffs is the goal, but to get there, the sacrifice is your future every time regardless of the current make up, cool. If you are never to win the whole shebang, and this is the strategy every time, but as fans you are ok with it. Cool. There is no I told you so's both ways. You live with it or u don't. I just choose to put my foot down now and say enough enough. If mediocrity is the selling point and fairweather fans jusr want a good time cool.

You cheer this team. This team is made up of many players. If it wins the cup does it matter whose on the team? To think we have a window based on the thoughts of 3 players, if that's what your debate is, well then ull cheer them to win anywhere. As a fan of of this, you should want the best for the franchise as a whole. Part of the process is gonna be hard at times, being Canucks fans, everyone knows that pain. That pain has never subsided, so this is the reason for the angst. When you start cherry picking reasons why it's ok then, maybe you are more a fan of the player and not the team.

 

[DonnyNucker]

So therein lies the problem that I am even speaking of. It's irrelevant what I think on how they build the team, I think its the wrong approach. Yes I have the advantage of hindsight to prove my point, but if this team and the fans think there is a shortcut to the end, history has shown that is next to never accurate. And that's what this post is about right? How we feel about management? If fans are ok with it cool cool, don't let me stop your run. If just making the playoffs is the goal, but to get there, the sacrifice is your future every time regardless of the current make up, cool. If you are never to win the whole shebang, and this is the strategy every time, but as fans you are ok with it. Cool. There is no I told you so's both ways. You live with it or u don't. I just choose to put my foot down now and say enough enough. If mediocrity is the selling point and fairweather fans jusr want a good time cool.

You cheer this team. This team is made up of many players. If it wins the cup does it matter whose on the team? To think we have a window based on the thoughts of 3 players, if that's what your debate is, well then ull cheer them to win anywhere. As a fan of of this, you should want the best for the franchise as a whole. Part of the process is gonna be hard at times, being Canucks fans, everyone knows that pain. That pain has never subsided, so this is the reason for the angst. When you start cherry picking reasons why it's ok then, maybe you are more a fan of the player and not the team.

Lol. I merely stated why they made the trade and why it was made now. I haven’t really offered my opinion. I’d prefer a complete tear down with Elias and Hughes gone. Is that happening? Zero %. So they will take their shot and likely fail and a rebuild will begin in 3 or 4 years. Hopefully they at least make the playoffs during one of those seasons and provide fans some entertainment

 

[rea]

Lol. I merely stated why they made the trade and why it was made now. I haven’t really offered my opinion. I’d prefer a complete tear down with Elias and Hughes gone. Is that happening? Zero %. So they will take their shot and likely fail and a rebuild will begin in 3 or 4 years. Hopefully they at least make the playoffs during one of those seasons and provide fans some entertainment

Sorry if it came off as an attack. It's not. This is a post to just show the gravity of what the mentality that some has is. I know you were just providing a response w what MS said, and again it's a fair point. I'm just saying what I want to say cuz I can say it and it's open forum.
Me speaking like this is just my passion for this team and wanting the best possible results.

 

[canuckking1]

A day later and still livid that this MGMT group pissed away another 2nd after that terrible Dickision trade. It stings even more that the prospect they took in the 1st is tracking HORRIBLY.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Lol. I merely stated why they made the trade and why it was made now. I haven’t really offered my opinion. I’d prefer a complete tear down with Elias and Hughes gone. Is that happening? Zero %. So they will take their shot and likely fail and a rebuild will begin in 3 or 4 years. Hopefully they at least make the playoffs during one of those seasons and provide fans some entertainment

So the 10 year rebuild turns into 20 years. These are basically Vancouver's version of the Ballard years.

 

[credulous]

As Ms Pointed out earlier , young top 4 RHD rarely are available. No guarantees an opportunity for a similar player would materialize. Not defending the trade, just understand why they made it now

there'll be other dmen

one of connor clifton or brandon carlo is going to lose their spot in boston and be available. if calgary decides to rebuild you can probably get weegar or zadorov fairly cheap. jordan spence will either be available or los angeles will move walker, roy or durzi. maybe two of them if clarke looks ready. carson soucy will probably be available as a free agent along with matt dumba, scott mayfield and damon severson. ryan graves is the wrong hand but will also be a free agent. sam girard is probably the odd man out in colorado. if you want to go older parayko and faulk are definitely available if you ask st louis. maybe even with incentive to take them on. columbus has a crowded right side and might move peeke or boqvist for the right offer

i think hronek was a pretty okay target but the canucks definitely could have afforded to miss out on him and probably should have given how high the price was

 

[givemeda411]

Only to then saddle us with nearly 5M in dead cap for two straight years; with an additional 2.1M for four years after. This all starts from 2025-26 onward, by the way. Basically, right in the middle of Pettersson and Hughes' prime years. That 7.1 (it's actually 8M) is for one single year. We can't do much of anything with it because the savings almost immediately plummets.

There is no scenario where we buy out OEL. Even if Aquilini was known for giving out money like that, it's simply a terrible decision. He's either here until 2027 or we're attaching a pretty decent draft pick to him and hoping he'll let us dump his ass back to money laundering central Arizona.

Having OEL at $7.26M is dead cap in the eyes of management.

Do you own a stock portfolio? If you have a stock in the toilet, you cut bait and move your money to where it can do something. You apply the same rule here.

Remember, the buyout isn't coming out of your own pocket.

How many assets do you think it will take to move OEL? It will take OEL going on LTIR in order to move it.

 

[JiffyPB]

If there's one thing for certain, this is an incredibly arrogant and unlikable management group. Look at:

1. Handling of BB. Didn't have the courage to let him go despite having an opt out clause and not believing in him. Chose to keep him around as a fall guy, throw him under the bus in the press when things went bad and then brutally botched replacing him with the whole saga of getting a 2 week notice from the media that he would be gone and replaced by Tocchet. Then Allvin arrogantly goes out with a freaking prepared statement that starts with how today he made the decision they needed a coaching change.

2. Tanner Pearson injury situation that looks like it will result in an NHLPA grievance against the club.

3. Human rights complaint over how they abruptly fired an employee.

4. Claiming how they are one of the youngest teams in the league based on a skewed opening season lineup that contained players they intended to send down to the AHL.

5. Claiming they have no cap space. Then moving to lock in that cap inflexibility by signing Boeser, Mikheyev, Miller and Kuzmenko. They also traded for Beauvillier while still being unable to trade Boeser and/or Garland.

6. Ducking the media after making a major trade for Hronek.

7. The whole JT Miller "week-to-week" injury. Curious how he's scratched and could be gone for weeks, but then suddenly shows up again a whopping 3 days later. Even more curious how the league office sends a memo about how they intend to closely scrutinize any LTIR trades.


These guys have bought their own hype and think they're the smartest guys around. They probably think everyone else in the media and the fans are a bunch of village idiots that just don't have the ability to comprehend their genius.

 

[credulous]

Having OEL at $7.26M is dead cap in the eyes of management.

Do you own a stock portfolio? If you have a stock in the toilet, you cut bait and move your money to where it can do something. You apply the same rule here.

Remember, the buyout isn't coming out of your own pocket.

How many assets do you think it will take to move OEL? It will take OEL going on LTIR in order to move it.

the problem with buying out oel is that it gives you the most cap space in the season you need it the least and when you need it most you get the least benefit. if you use the cap space to sign anyone to a 3+ year deal then you need to find another 5m in cap savings in 2025 just to stay above water. if you hold onto it to give you some cushion for resigning pettersson, hronek and beauvillier then you end up missing out on most of the savings. all you can really do with it is sign a 1 year deal for 6m or i guess keep myers around which is certainly a choice. by 2025 you're only saving a little more than 2m and you've got a 2m+ penalty for 4 years lined up against you

it's just bad business to buy him out this offseason. at least wait the extra year for when you really need the cap space and shave off one of the penalty years

 

[rea]

Having OEL at $7.26M is dead cap in the eyes of management.

Do you own a stock portfolio? If you have a stock in the toilet, you cut bait and move your money to where it can do something. You apply the same rule here.

Remember, the buyout isn't coming out of your own pocket.

How many assets do you think it will take to move OEL? It will take OEL going on LTIR in order to move it.

I'm sorry sir, you do not understand the implications of a buyout.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

These guys have bought their own hype and think they're the smartest guys around. They probably think everyone else in the media and the fans are a bunch of village idiots that just don't have the ability to comprehend their genius.

Sure beats the two village idiots we had running the team before.

 

[givemeda411]

Except the Canucks didn't trade a first and a second in an insane draft for Sami Salo, we traded Peter Schaefer, who was not very good. Not a very smart comparison, as the Sami Salo acquisition in 2002 would have likely involved trading the asset that got them Ryan Kesler in the 2003 draft, which would have been very stupid!

Price Paid and Player Comparison are two different things.

You are correct Schaefer for Salo was a steal for Burke, giving up very little as Schaefer didn't last long. Right time and opportunity. Unfortunately no similar opportunity exists currently, hence the price.

But Salo was bigger in size, but they have a similar type of game. He also has a bomb of a shot, sounds familar?

I'm sorry sir, you do not understand the implications of a buyout.

Agree to disagree.


Just like no one imagined the NYI first being moved. The Canucks will buyout OEL. You don't have to agree with it, but go look at what their buddy Guerin is doing in Minnesota after buying out Praise & Suter.

Peace

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Having OEL at $7.26M is dead cap in the eyes of management.

Do you own a stock portfolio? If you have a stock in the toilet, you cut bait and move your money to where it can do something. You apply the same rule here.

Remember, the buyout isn't coming out of your own pocket.

How many assets do you think it will take to move OEL? It will take OEL going on LTIR in order to move it.

Says you not management.

OEL is still a serviceable player, and even perfectly fine if only being paid half his salary. Which is exactly what he would be come 2025. When you buy a player out, you do realize you have to replace them. We aren't getting 8M to spend however we like. We're getting what is essentially a one year loan that gets progressively worse with each year.

Who are you getting that will cost 3M or thereabouts and actually have any sort of impact worth 4.5M of dead cap? Because that's all the money you're actually able to use. Not 7.26M or 8M. You can't spend money you won't have a year later without losing other players. We played that game before and watched the likes of Tanev, Toffoli and Markstrom all walk for nothing as a result.

Stock is a terrible analogy because once you cut your loses, that's it. You stop losing. Buying out OEL is more akin to borrowing credit you can't afford to pay back. So while it starts off okay, the interest piles up.

146k
2.346M
4.766M
4.766M
2.126M
2.126M
2.126M
2.126M

Those are the numbers you're advocating for. Outside of a single season we're eating at least 2M for almost a decade. In this allotted time, Pettersson will need a new deal. With players of his caliber pushing closer and closer to 9-10M and his agent knowing we're completely screwed if he were to walk. We're going to pay him 10M unless his production craters in the next two years.

So that supposed savings you think we get by buying out OEL? You're giving it and then some straight to Pettersson. Now you have even less money to replace OEL and he'll 31 before this buy out penalty goes away.

Buying out OEL is not an option. It's so bad Rutherford should be fired if he even considers it. I am well aware it would take probably a 1st+ to move this albatross of a contract. Hence why I said he'll likely be here until 2027. The last parting gift of Jim Benning. And just like Eriksson before him, we can't do a damn thing about it.

 

[canucksfan]