Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

[Diversification]

With all that said - if their is noone they like enough to get to replace him due to whatever reason i could see him staying, minutes reduced to a 2 or 3 LD

Tocchets system finally gives support to the defence, so foot speed can be compensated a little

I would bet the inclination right now is to try OEL qith hronek, take the puck moving off of OEL

OEL is easily replaceable. Currently Christian Wolanin looks like a breath of fresh air by comparison to OEL's play this season. And if we are a club with playoff aspirations, Wolanin is #7/8D on your depth chart.

A year older, it's not going to trend better for OEL. Which means he's dead cap space with a NMC. Only option to free up space and maximize the time window for a rapid turnaround - which, let's be honest, is what they're aiming for - is to buy him out, post haste.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

The reality is that the owner mentality is at odds with this fanbase. They are tired of trading the future to aquire other teams cast offs and term.

My issue is that this was a once in a lifetime moment for this franchise. They will never be in a position again to draft a home town generational player. It was doable. They should have made the most of their lame duck season and at least waited for prices to come down in the summer.

Poor asset management, no vision, no future, no excitement or engagement.

We were also in a good position to make a run at McDavid. No real horrible contracts that needed to be offloaded, and lots of good bargaining chips.

 

[andora]

OEL is easily replaceable. Currently Christian Wolanin looks like a breath of fresh air by comparison to OEL's play this season. And if we are a club with playoff aspirations, Wolanin is #7/8D on your depth chart.

A year older, it's not going to trend better for OEL. Which means he's dead cap space with a NMC. Only option to free up space and maximize the time window for a rapid turnaround - which, let's be honest, is what they're aiming for - is to buy him out, post haste.

He has been but i dont believe oel will be bought out and i also believe they could be thinking how to insulate oel

I mean with wolanin.. we always have to careful in expectations.. is it a boost because hes jacked right now finally getting the chance? Is this sustainable at this level or would he regress back to the mean of an average offensive farm player

This story plays out a thousand times.. i love that he is doing what hes doing, but i would rather look a brisebois and his game instead, because its boring.

 

[Diversification]

He has been but i dont believe oel will be bought out and i also believe they could be thinking how to insulate oel

I mean with wolanin.. we always have to careful in expectations.. is it a boost because hes jacked right now finally getting the chance? Is this sustainable at this level or would he regress back to the mean of an average offensive farm player

This story plays out a thousand times.. i love that he is doing what hes doing, but i would rather look a brisebois and his game instead, because its boring.

Insulating OEL is simply compounding an error. Let's say they deploy Hronek to babysit OEL and the pair survives their minutes because Hronek is just that good. Is that a good situation? Dead cap space offset by a player who can cover for their partner and in so doing, limits their own effectiveness overall?

As for Wolanin, I'm neutral on whether he has a future with the club. I was only pointing him out to highlight the fact that an AHL dman has made OEL look replaceable.

 

[Bubbles]

Many teams in pro sports have engineered trades like this. Jagr for instance told teams he would not be available to play but told the Penguins on the side that he would play for them. The Canucks were one of the teams that he didn't want to play for.

The Sedins told a number of teams at the draft that they wanted to play together and would not sign. This allowed Brian Burke to make a trade for the first pick. Then he made other moves to ensure the Canucks would draft the Sedins at 2nd and 3rd overall.

Are you just making up things now, or at least taking things completely out of context.

Jagr only told the top 4 teams that he won't come over right away. He told the Pens that he would "show up" tomorrow. Not only that, it was 1990, the Iron Curtain just fell and NHL teams were still a bit skittish picking Europeans. He never said he didn't want to play for the Canucks.

The Sedins said they wanted to play together but they NEVER said they would not sign. You made that up.

1999 was weak and GM's knew it. That's why they were open to moving around. Go read up on how Burke actually managed to get the picks.

 

[Hit the post]

Are you just making up things now, or at least taking things completely out of context.

Jagr only told the top 4 teams that he won't come over right away. He told the Pens that he would "show up" tomorrow. Not only that, it was 1990, the Iron Curtain just fell and NHL teams were still a bit skittish picking Europeans. He never said he didn't want to play for the Canucks.

The Sedins said they wanted to play together but they NEVER said they would not sign. You made that up.

1999 was weak and GM's knew it. That's why they were open to moving around. Go read up on how Burke actually managed to get the picks.

I think it was also Burke who said he even tried to pry the pick from Atlanta but that team wanted the "PR/Marketing" effect of using it as a promotion device (it was a new team after all) - "The Thrashers with the 1st overall pick". Burke was still able to work around that (and get actually the best two prospects - the Sedins) via getting guarantees from the other GMs on who to pick or not pick.

 

[Bubbles]

I think it was also Burke who said he even tried to pry the pick from Atlanta but that team wanted the "PR/Marketing" effect of using it as a promotion device (it was a new team after all) - "The Thrashers with the 1st overall pick". Burke was still able to work around that (and get actually the best two prospects - the Sedins) via getting guarantees from the other GMs on who to pick or not pick.

He actually tried to get 1,2 and 3 and came close. An episode of Hey Burkie covered the Sedins and how he got it:

 

[Hit the post]

I can't remember but wasn't Burke Quinn's #2 & thus had some involvement in the greasy way they managed to draft Bure ("found" somehow some gamesheets in Russia ).

 

[Bubbles]

I can't remember but wasn't Burke Quinn's #2 & thus had some involvement in the greasy way they managed to draft Bure ("found" somehow some gamesheets in Russia ).

If you haven't already watched the Hey Burkie series on Sportsnet/Youtube, you should. He and Marek do these great stories from Burkie's life and he covers the Bure story.

Basically he found these gamesheets in Cyrillic that had two exhibition games with Bure on it which qualified him to be picked. There were some strange rules back then too. Anyone could have taken Bure in that year, except the teams HAD to pick him in the top 3 rounds which no one was risking.

 

[rypper]

I was going to suggest OEL should be the team's #7 with the thought process being less usage, better results in the ice time he gets, but he's only 31. Maybe he needs some honest time off to heal up from potential nagging injuries. Or maybe he just is, who he is, now.

 

[andora]

Insulating OEL is simply compounding an error. Let's say they deploy Hronek to babysit OEL and the pair survives their minutes because Hronek is just that good. Is that a good situation? Dead cap space offset by a player who can cover for their partner and in so doing, limits their own effectiveness overall?

As for Wolanin, I'm neutral on whether he has a future with the club. I was only pointing him out to highlight the fact that an AHL dman has made OEL look replaceable.

I get it.. but a lot of factors could be going into this which can make turfing him a little more detailed than fans that can just say it

Experience
Past play
Injuries and health
Chemistry
Financial - and cost benefit of what the open cap space can be used for with the dead buyout hit and what the net effect is - both on ice and in the pocketbook

I dont think his story is finished in vancouver thats all, especially if they are able to deal with pearaon myers boeser/garland poolman ..

I was going to suggest OEL should be the team's #7 with the thought process being less usage, better results in the ice time he gets, but he's only 31. Maybe he needs some honest time off to heal up from potential nagging injuries. Or maybe he just is, who he is, now.

The injury healing thing is a real possibility

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

I was going to suggest OEL should be the team's #7 with the thought process being less usage, better results in the ice time he gets, but he's only 31. Maybe he needs some honest time off to heal up from potential nagging injuries. Or maybe he just is, who he is, now.

I basically agree with this. The idea should be to run a top 4 of hughes-bear, UFA-hronek, with wolanin and OEL fighting for that 3rd pair LD spot.

If OEL can bounce back a bit, great. If not, buy him out in 2024.

 

[arttk]

Tu

I get it.. but a lot of factors could be going into this which can make turfing him a little more detailed than fans that can just say it

Experience
Past play
Injuries and health
Chemistry
Financial - and cost benefit of what the open cap space can be used for with the dead buyout hit and what the net effect is - both on ice and in the pocketbook

I dont think his story is finished in vancouver thats all, especially if they are able to deal with pearaon myers boeser/garland poolman ..


The injury healing thing is a real possibility

Let’s send him to Pogba’s witch doctor

 

[Steamer]

That top 15 first rounder probably wont even be on the team for another 3-4 years.

The most glaring need on the team was a young RHD...They didnt have any in the system, and had to pay the piper to get one.

Pure retool move...as what they've said all along

You can't guarantee that. This is a very deep talented draft. Players in this draft may play in 2 years like Hughes and Petey did. Bedard is playing next year in the NHL and maybe a couple of others. It was incredibly stupid trade giving up a high 1st rd and a 2nd rd next year for a middling RHD

 

[MarkMM]

With all that said - if their is noone they like enough to get to replace him due to whatever reason i could see him staying, minutes reduced to a 2 or 3 LD

Tocchets system finally gives support to the defence, so foot speed can be compensated a little

I would bet the inclination right now is to try OEL qith hronek, take the puck moving off of OEL

Maybe some combination of a stronger partner like Hronek, Hughes (with a better partner hopefully) able to take on some more defensive burden and Gonchar doing a make-over could allow OEL to play within his means. Maybe some downtime over the summer to repair his body could also do wonders. If we could buy even a couple seasons of more reasonable play then this could help us get through the tightest of the cap.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You can't guarantee that. This is a very deep talented draft. Players in this draft may play in 2 years like Hughes and Petey did. Bedard is playing next year in the NHL and maybe a couple of others. It was incredibly stupid trade giving up a high 1st rd and a 2nd rd next year for a middling RHD

Generally, the top 5 or so, step right into the league....What other route would you have taken to acquire a top 4 RHD..?...and what is the value of 25 year old top 4 RHD..?

 

[Peter Griffin]

Gavrikov and Graves are the two guys I think management might target this offseason. That said both guys are likely to be massively overpaid as well.

 

[credulous]

Gavrikov and Graves are the two guys I think management might target this offseason. That said both guys are likely to be massively overpaid as well.

gavrikov is a stay away for me. we'll have to see how he does on a pretty good los angeles kings blueline but i think the columbus defense is bad because he is bad not vice versa

graves is a good target. he's a very solid all around defender. i think he'll reup with new jersey though. that's a team on the rise, they have plenty of cap space and they'll almost certainly prioritize keeping graves over severson

carson soucy in seattle is another good target. soucy is somewhat redundant in seattle with dunn and oleksiak playing ahead of him but he's probably their third best dman after dunn and larsson and he can play both sides. the only real downside to him is that he takes a ton of penalties. he'd be a terrific partner for either hughes or hronek

connor clifton on boston is another interesting potential free agent although i think he too resigns with his team. he too can play both sides and gets a lot of ice time. i don't think he's a sure thing top 4 defender but he'd be a great utility guy to bring in if he comes cheap

after that things get dicey

you have orlov, dumba, klingberg and severson who can all probably help out but who will all come with high price tags and questionable effectiveness going forward. shattenkirk and gostisbehere are available but not really what vancouver needs. dumoulin, cole, hamonic, moore, gudas, kulikov and holl are all veteran guys who can help but you don't want to give any of them term. gardiner might try to make a comeback. maybe worth a flyer. scott mayfield is a no offense bottom pairing guy that would be worth signing if you could get him cheap but i suspect given his circumstances he's not interested in cheap. niko mikkola, robert hagg, trevor van riemsdyk, andreas englund, gavin bayreuther and kyle burroughs are all credible bottom pairing kind of players that will be available

 

[Grub]

To be honest I'm quite ok with the Hronek pickup, baring he becomes a top 4 D-men for us. It's been a really tough challenge for us to get Top 4 D-men since Tanev left. If he can be consistent and be a top 4 D-men for us, I think this was a good move, the guy is only 25 as well. Honestly if the Islanders pick becomes 12-20, I think a defensemen there would have the same potentil as Hronek at best.

All we need now is to get top 4 in this draft and I think we can be a good team. Having Pettersson, Kuzmenko and Miller as your star forward is a good core.

 

[Diversification]

Financial - and cost benefit of what the open cap space can be used for with the dead buyout hit and what the net effect is - both on ice and in the pocketbook

I dont think his story is finished in vancouver thats all, especially if they are able to deal with pearaon myers boeser/garland poolman ..

Not directed at you, but this is a bit enraging.

- Benning at the behest of FrAq takes on a boat anchor of a contract in a classic case of performance chasing
- Boat anchor contract proves to be a boat anchor contract.
- FrAq turfs Benning (rightfully) and demands new management to fix the mess of his own making and that he won't accept a re-build.
- Management obliges with a risky and aggressive strategy to build around whatever is left of EP's and QH's peak years but needs boat anchor contract cleared right away
- FrAq balks because finances.

Like I said: Enraging.

 

[andora]

gavrikov is a stay away for me. we'll have to see how he does on a pretty good los angeles kings blueline but i think the columbus defense is bad because he is bad not vice versa

graves is a good target. he's a very solid all around defender. i think he'll reup with new jersey though. that's a team on the rise, they have plenty of cap space and they'll almost certainly prioritize keeping graves over severson

carson soucy in seattle is another good target. soucy is somewhat redundant in seattle with dunn and oleksiak playing ahead of him but he's probably their third best dman after dunn and larsson and he can play both sides. the only real downside to him is that he takes a ton of penalties. he'd be a terrific partner for either hughes or hronek

connor clifton on boston is another interesting potential free agent although i think he too resigns with his team. he too can play both sides and gets a lot of ice time. i don't think he's a sure thing top 4 defender but he'd be a great utility guy to bring in if he comes cheap

after that things get dicey

you have orlov, dumba, klingberg and severson who can all probably help out but who will all come with high price tags and questionable effectiveness going forward. shattenkirk and gostisbehere are available but not really what vancouver needs. dumoulin, cole, hamonic, moore, gudas, kulikov and holl are all veteran guys who can help but you don't want to give any of them term. gardiner might try to make a comeback. maybe worth a flyer. scott mayfield is a no offense bottom pairing guy that would be worth signing if you could get him cheap but i suspect given his circumstances he's not interested in cheap. niko mikkola, robert hagg, trevor van riemsdyk, andreas englund, gavin bayreuther and kyle burroughs are all credible bottom pairing kind of players that will be available

You named some good names.. soucy and graves and agree on clifton. I hate that little prick lol.. but when hes on your team

Not directed at you, but this is a bit enraging.

- Benning at the behest of FrAq takes on a boat anchor of a contract in a classic case of performance chasing
- Boat anchor contract proves to be a boat anchor contract.
- FrAq turfs Benning (rightfully) and demands new management to fix the mess of his own making and that he won't accept a re-build.
- Management obliges with a risky and aggressive strategy to build around whatever is left of EP's and QH's peak years but needs boat anchor contract cleared right away
- FrAq balks because finances.

Like I said: Enraging.

Maybe yeah.. but thats how she goes.. sometimes she goes sometimes she doesnt. She hasnt gone.. thats how she goes

Anyway.. i get it

 

[Diogenes92]

To be honest I'm quite ok with the Hronek pickup, baring he becomes a top 4 D-men for us. It's been a really tough challenge for us to get Top 4 D-men since Tanev left. If he can be consistent and be a top 4 D-men for us, I think this was a good move, the guy is only 25 as well. Honestly if the Islanders pick becomes 12-20, I think a defensemen there would have the same potentil as Hronek at best.

All we need now is to get top 4 in this draft and I think we can be a good team. Having Pettersson, Kuzmenko and Miller as your star forward is a good core.

Do you really believe giving up a top 20 pick and a top 40 pick in what is being touted as one of the deepest drafts in a decade is a good idea for a team with next to no prospects and next to nobody (other than Hoglander) ready to jump up to the NHL?

If the Canucks had been competing for playoff berths the last few years I would probably understand their impatience to take the next step to jumping into the playoff picture.

But we're talking about a bottom 10 team here. A roster and salary that is poorly structured and relies upon Petey, Quinn, and Demko to cover up for nearly all of their errors and piggy-back the team to wins. Are we really looking at 25+ minutes a night for Petey / Quinn and 65+ starts for Demko just to possibly sneak into a wildcard spot next year? Sounds like a recipe for more injuries to me and not a sustainable strategy as shown by the results the last handful of seasons.

This team needs to chill for a few years and buildup some organizational depth before taking yet another plunge. 40 and 43 will still be relatively young at that point.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Do you really believe giving up a top 20 pick and a top 40 pick in what is being touted as one of the deepest drafts in a decade is a good idea for a team with next to no prospects and next to nobody (other than Hoglander) ready to jump up to the NHL?

If the Canucks had been competing for playoff berths the last few years I would probably understand their impatience to take the next step to jumping into the playoff picture.

But we're talking about a bottom 10 team here. A roster and salary that is poorly structured and relies upon Petey, Quinn, and Demko to cover up for nearly all of their errors and piggy-back the team to wins. Are we really looking at 25+ minutes a night for Petey / Quinn and 65+ starts for Demko just to possibly sneak into a wildcard spot next year? Sounds like a recipe for more injuries to me and not a sustainable strategy as shown by the results the last handful of seasons.

This team needs to chill for a few years and buildup some organizational depth before taking yet another plunge. 40 and 43 will still be relatively young at that point.

40 and 43 won’t be here if we “chill for a few years.” You can’t keep the core players you like to watch and not retool. It’s pretty simple.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Livingstone will be able to sign in about 3-4 weeks, so I hope we start hearing more about his level of interest in signing here. Wherever he signs it will be a 1 year ELC so he'll need a new contract immediately.

 

[JohnHodgson]

40 and 43 won’t be here if we “chill for a few years.” You can’t keep the core players you like to watch and not retool. It’s pretty simple.

Yup.

Idk how people don’t understand this.

Hughes is a UFA in 4 years.

Petey is an RFA after next year.

We don’t have the luxury just to “chill”. Our superstars are entering their prime.