Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

[F A N]

Since most GMs/POHO is taking over from someone who has been fired for the team's poor on-ice performance, I usually give management the benefit of the doubt. I especially pay attention to the drafting to get a better sense of the type of players the team is targeting. However, when management has told us what they think of the team and their moves reasonably reflect what they think of the team, we should believe them. And I will give management credit here. Their messaging has been consistent.

A lot of people have blamed the owners but JR is no spring chicken and our owner basically begged him to take the job. I have a hard time believing that JR is somehow making moves that he's not on board with. Even with Boudreau. They could have bought him out and brought in Tocchet. But of course with Boudreau's success last season there is a risk that if the Canucks don't get off to a good start then everybody will point to decision not to bring back Boudreau.

We can keep going with But Benning! here, but from the start JR said that he sees this as a 2 year retool. Drance wrote about how JR smiled when Drance was asking about timeline and suggested 3 years (he took it as JR thinking 3 years is generous). Sure there are some inefficient cap spending on the books, but that didn't stop management from essentially rebuilding the bottom 6 and signing Mik. Based on multiple reports, the Canucks had an opportunity to move Myers for an asset last summer. They didn't. They had an opportunity to move Miller. They didn't. They had an opportunity to prioritize Horvat over Miller. They didn't. They didn't have to re-sign Boeser to a 3 year contract, but they did. They could have been patient and taken/kept draft picks and be a power player at this upcoming deep draft, but they didn't. All along, we heard that management wasn't interested in a package of futures for Horvat and we were pleasantly shocked that the return was a first round pick. So nobody should be surprised that management would turn around and trade the 1st round pick + our own high 2nd for Hronek who was a target and they couldn't wait.

Boudreau deserved to be fired but at the same time, consistent with the messaging so far, Boudreau was fired because the team had drastically underachieved. While management didn't come out and say that they believe that this team can be turned around quickly or that the team is a few bold moves away from competing for the Stanley Cup, management believes that we have a playoff team starting this season. Like the Rock would say "It doesn't matter what you think!" Management thinks this year's team should have been a playoff team so while I am willing to excuse them this season due to not having their coach of choice and a healthy Demko at his best, we shouldn't be providing excuses here.

 

[Josepho]

Based on how we look right now heading into the offseason, it seems pretty likely that Myers will be dumped using one of our extra 3rds or 4ths.

This should be automatic if it's an option, but I don't think it will be.

Arizona is the obvious option here.

 

[Orr4Norris]

Every once in awhile the gaslighting this organization has done starts to get to me. I start to question my sanity. Maybe they could retool this team after all?

Then I watch a game like NJ/Vegas and it’s like nope. Nope. This team is not close. They are so far off the top teams.

 

[Seattle Totems]

How many years did it take the franchise to draft an elite D man like Hughes..?.(49 years..?)..Hughes also said he has no interest on being on a team going through a rebuild (EP said the same thing in a round about way before he signed his last contract).

You can acquire/hoard picks ,tank, and do everything the right way..and still not hit home runs (look at the Red Wings, they've hit one homerun, and look like they're on the verge of doing a rebuild on top of a rebuild).

They're not moving EP or Hughes..You may want to turn your head, or maybe pick another rebuilding team to root for..A full on rebuild is not happening here.

Like I said Pettersson and Hughes will not want to be here when the team is still floundering and missing the playoffs two or three years on. What's your point? The fans don't want another 10 years of this nonsense. Many like myself stopped watching during the Benning years. I'd watch however if they were playing for this draft pick. I'd be back if they gave us hope.

I don't give a flying frig who they try to slot in. This franchise is already dead to me. I don't care if they free the skate or hire more bald assholes or how they manage to embarass themselves even more. I only tune in hoping they change course but sadly they never do.

I dont get why this so difficult to grasp that you can not win without building through the draft in the cap era. It doesn't matter that some teams fail at it. The opposite approach, which the Canucks take, can not produce a winner.

Look at any Cup winner in this era. It's not 1 Pettersson Hughes and a Demko surrounded by acquistions on 2nd and 3rd contracts. It's 10- 15 players that were drafted by that team. Drafted players are paid less towards the cap. They contribute value on their ELC and their team comparables are paid for their current performance - not the past..

Manage the cap and draft. That's how teams win.

I digress.

To me this season is make or break for this franchise and im not talking about making the playoffs. I am perplexed that most people dont see this.

This season was actually a gift but the Canucks are squandering it.

The Canucks are a bottom 6 team and had a coach that the fans adored. They stopped caring about wins and were ready to embrace the draft.

At the top of the draft is a home town player that is considered a generational talent and would be no less than a franchise player for this team. Hes a hard core Canucks fan that may not want to play for another team.

First overall picks can "retool" a franchise better than anything. Generational players are literally one in a generation. The Canucks have never approached either.

Why doesn't ownership and management see this opportunity? If I'm managing this team I'm doing everything I can to aquire that top pick because it is attainable.

The Canucks could have had 3 or 4 first round picks in the draft. With the right manager and the situation behind the scenes they could aquire the 1st overall pick.

Something this franchise has never done in 53 years.

Can you even imagine how transformative that would be for this franchise? Do you think fans would fill the arena again with the team marketing a generational home town talent? Doesn't even need to be said.

Who gives a crap about Hronek when all you have to play for is the draft and the top pick of that draft will completely change the course of an NHL franchise.

The last and only time the Canucks made a deal like that at the draft was in 1999 for the Sedins. Again, how teams win.. but this would be vastly more impactful than the Sedins.

It is insanely stupid for this franchise to be trading picks for win now players before this draft. Trust me. If anyone still cares about the Canucks ten years from now they won't talking about Hronek or how important it was to keep the core happy.

They will talk about how the Canucks did nothing to aquire the top pick when they were a lotto team and that player was dying to be here. Fans used to cry about not drafting Burnaby Joe. They named a street after him and he never even wanted to be here. This guy wants to be here and he could rewrite this team. A smart GM would make it happen.

The Canucks will never be in this position again. Even more reason to walk away when this team doesn't even try and serves up the same BS losing strategy.

 

[mriswith]

The funny thing about dumping to Arizona is that their GM explained the reason they didn't want to take dumps back for Chychrun is because they can get two 2nd's in the offseason for the kind of dumps that teams wanted to send back for free in a deadline deal.

Our plan to dump in the offseason means we're going to pay a premium to dump in the offseason vs in the deadline.

And we just finished paying a premium to buy at the deadline instead of the offseason.

Asset management again.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Since most GMs/POHO is taking over from someone who has been fired for the team's poor on-ice performance, I usually give management the benefit of the doubt. I especially pay attention to the drafting to get a better sense of the type of players the team is targeting. However, when management has told us what they think of the team and their moves reasonably reflect what they think of the team, we should believe them. And I will give management credit here. Their messaging has been consistent.

A lot of people have blamed the owners but JR is no spring chicken and our owner basically begged him to take the job. I have a hard time believing that JR is somehow making moves that he's not on board with. Even with Boudreau. They could have bought him out and brought in Tocchet. But of course with Boudreau's success last season there is a risk that if the Canucks don't get off to a good start then everybody will point to decision not to bring back Boudreau.

We can keep going with But Benning! here, but from the start JR said that he sees this as a 2 year retool. Drance wrote about how JR smiled when Drance was asking about timeline and suggested 3 years (he took it as JR thinking 3 years is generous). Sure there are some inefficient cap spending on the books, but that didn't stop management from essentially rebuilding the bottom 6 and signing Mik. Based on multiple reports, the Canucks had an opportunity to move Myers for an asset last summer. They didn't. They had an opportunity to move Miller. They didn't. They had an opportunity to prioritize Horvat over Miller. They didn't. They didn't have to re-sign Boeser to a 3 year contract, but they did. They could have been patient and taken/kept draft picks and be a power player at this upcoming deep draft, but they didn't. All along, we heard that management wasn't interested in a package of futures for Horvat and we were pleasantly shocked that the return was a first round pick. So nobody should be surprised that management would turn around and trade the 1st round pick + our own high 2nd for Hronek who was a target and they couldn't wait.

Boudreau deserved to be fired but at the same time, consistent with the messaging so far, Boudreau was fired because the team had drastically underachieved. While management didn't come out and say that they believe that this team can be turned around quickly or that the team is a few bold moves away from competing for the Stanley Cup, management believes that we have a playoff team starting this season. Like the Rock would say "It doesn't matter what you think!" Management thinks this year's team should have been a playoff team so while I am willing to excuse them this season due to not having their coach of choice and a healthy Demko at his best, we shouldn't be providing excuses here.

I don't think this is correct. They didn't approve of Boudreau last summer after he had brought the team back from the dead, and JR said he wasn't happy with the training camp - which was obviously before they'd played a game.

I think the manner in the which the team played & the country club atmosphere surrounding the team was something they identified right away & have consistently harped on. That's why they wanted to change the coach last offseason.

 

[VanillaCoke]

It's the exact same stupid dumb luck backwards backwoods cousin marriage bullshit the idiot dimwit Jim forced us to endure for a decade, just with shinier hats on.

 

[LordBacon]

Then I watch a game like NJ/Vegas and it’s like nope. Nope. This team is not close. They are so far off the top teams.

It’s the same for me.
The nucks are like ahl teams compared to them. Canucks are stuck in the middle in no man’s land.
The blueberry special.

And the GM has the audacity to say we’re like tampa-bay lol.

 

[Jay26]

I don't care if Hronek is the second coming of Cale Makar.

For a perpetual lottery team like the Canucks to have two measly picks in the top 140 draft selections in 2023 and 2024 would be laughable, it wasn't so tragic.

Sarcasm, my friend. I was mimicking some other posters.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

Every once in awhile the gaslighting this organization has done starts to get to me. I start to question my sanity. Maybe they could retool this team after all?

Then I watch a game like NJ/Vegas and it’s like nope. Nope. This team is not close. They are so far off the top teams.

Right? It's wild.

 

[Jay26]

Whoever said gaslighting is bang on. It's abhorrent.

 

[Raistlin]

Even though I know the direction the team goes on is 75% determined by the owner. I believe that a guy like the one in the clip above would be able to steer him in the CORRECT direction.

Comparing Allvin/JR/Benning with this guy.

The main difference is situational awareness. You can tell that he is constantly evaluating and making decisions based on the team that is in front of him, not a direction that was predetermined in September 2022, before its proven that the team needs major surgery, that today it is not just one RHD away, that you can sacrifice two marquee pieces of your future for.

SMH. Vancouver approached Yzerman for Hronek! He didnt even have to sell the player, it was a 13-15th pick and another top40 pick that just fell on his lap.

The secondary difference is that there is no fluff in his words. No “I’m collecting picks to either draft hockey players or trade to get hockey players in here,” which is .....what kind of an answer exactly?? How is that different than "I come to work to do stuff!" ?? The guy above is resolute and believes in his acumen, he is matter-of-fact, he is not some schmuck doing an moron's bidding, I dont think he will lose a power struggle with Benning. He doesnt have to fight the forces of the world telling him he is going the wrong way, maybe he's even buoyed by the majority of his fans that welcome sustained success? As a 50 year old manager, you just know how to build more than a 22 year old that “Obviously ... don’t want to be here for a rebuild and have to wait and do all that,”..... you have a larger scope right?

You are not bound by your star players, because you are sure that they will see that the team is sustainable in the long run. They see a future of sustainable success and will want to stay. You think this guy above cares that Larkin was upset with losing Bertuzzi? Imagine if Sakic insist to build around Duchene and Barrie.

Ultimately, complaining about the GM is an exercise in fruitlessness... Watching this imbecile of an owner dominate the direction of this team is my ultimate beef. But.... oh man..... I can HOPE that a smart guy who can f'in articulate and not bound by the reality of his own mortality can change even this owner's broken mind.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

I think he was the most healthy D on our blueline in the Cup Finals in 2011. The Hockey Gods love to troll the Canucks.

Sami Salo has a legit claim to best two way d in team history.

 

[mriswith]

Even though I know the direction the team goes on is 75% determined by the owner. I believe that a guy like the one in the clip above would be able to steer him in the CORRECT direction.

Comparing Allvin/JR/Benning with this guy.

The main difference is situational awareness. You can tell that he is constantly evaluating and making decisions based on the team that is in front of him, not a direction that was predetermined in September 2022, before its proven that the team needs major surgery, that today it is not just one RHD away, that you can sacrifice two marquee pieces of your future for.

SMH. Vancouver approached Yzerman for Hronek! He didnt even have to sell the player, it was a 13-15th pick and another top40 pick that just fell on his lap.

The secondary difference is that there is no fluff in his words. No “I’m collecting picks to either draft hockey players or trade to get hockey players in here,” which is .....what kind of an answer exactly?? How is that different than "I come to work to do stuff!" ?? The guy above is resolute and believes in his acumen, he is matter-of-fact, he is not some schmuck doing an idiot's bidding, I dont think he will lose a power struggle with Benning. And do you know why he is so sure footed? He doesnt have to fight the forces of the world telling him he is going the wrong way, maybe he's even buoyed by the majority of his fans? Sometimes as a 50 year old manager, you just know how to build more than a 22 year old that “Obviously ... don’t want to be here for a rebuild and have to wait and do all that,”..... you have a larger scope right?

You are not bound by your star players, because you are sure that they will see that the team is sustainable in the long run. They see a future of sustainable success and will want to stay. You think this guy above cares that Larkin was upset with losing Bertuzzi?

Ultimately, complaining about the GM is an exercise in fruitlessness... Watching this imbecile of an owner dominate the direction of this team is my ultimate beef. But.... oh man..... I can HOPE that a smart guy who can f'in articulate and not bound by the reality of his own mortality can change even this owner's broken mind.

Watching that is just depressing contrasted against what we've had to deal with for the last decade. An intelligent, thoughtful GM who is in control of the strategic direction and the moves he makes, and whose number one goal is very clearly a long term vision for winning the cup not just sneaking into a wild card.

Yzerman is going to build a 10 year window for Detroit just like he did for Tampa.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

Watching that is just depressing contrasted against what we've had to deal with for the last decade. An intelligent, thoughtful GM who is in control of the strategic direction and the moves he makes, and whose number one goal is very clearly a long term vision for winning the cup not just sneaking into a wild card.

Yzerman is going to build a 10 year window for Detroit just like he did for Tampa.

You’re just a negative Nelly. We just need to get in. Then anything can happen.

 

[F A N]

I don't think this is correct. They didn't approve of Boudreau last summer after he had brought the team back from the dead, and JR said he wasn't happy with the training camp - which was obviously before they'd played a game.

I think the manner in the which the team played & the country club atmosphere surrounding the team was something they identified right away & have consistently harped on. That's why they wanted to change the coach last offseason.

What's incorrect? If they wanted to change the coach last offseason then change the coach. The contract that Boudreau signed was a 1 year contract with an option year. Both the Canucks and Boudreau get to choose whether they will exercise the option with the Canucks choosing first. If the Canucks decide not to exercise the option year then Boudreau gets a lump sum payment. According to CF, Boudreau's option year was for $2.5M. Logically speaking, there is no way that declining to exercise the option year would cost the Canucks $2.5M or more. Usually, compensation for not picking up an option is a whole lot less. Again, Aquilini begged JR to take the job. Do you really believe that Aquilini would prevent JR from making a coaching change? This is the same owner who allowed Linden to fire Torts with 4x$2M left on his contract. I mean maybe money is tighter than before but I have trouble believing that JR was forced to pick up Boudreau's option.

And the whole "JR didn't approve of Boudreau" narrative is even more maddening. Aquilini asked JR what he thought of Boudreau before hiring Boudreau. JR decided not to comment before he agreed to take the job. He could have told Aquilini that he didn't think Boudreau would be a ideal (hint hint) and provided a couple of suggestions but leave it to Aquilini to decide. He could have told Aquilini that if he was to take the job he would prefer to bring his own coach in. There are many ways in which JR could have hinted to Aquilini that he wouldn't hire Boudreau. Instead he didn't comment. JR had like a list of GM candidates ready to go by the time he took the job. Did he not have a list of coaching candidates as well? And no, I don't buy into the narrative that JR had zero idea that he was interested in taking the job so he didn't bother to comment.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

And out comes the victims card.

How about this, you put me back on the ignore list and have yourself a nice day. I consider such gesture a badge of honor.

Ugh. How do you think this comes off?

 

[NYVanfan]

I get the negativity, but … unpopular as it may be, lemme try and put a more positive spin

1. We were never going to rebuild with EP & QH entering their prime. Time for that was 3 years ago, and/or probably 3 years from now. They told us what they were gonna do and they did it.
2. Bo trade addressed 3 positions and got us younger. I read somewhere we are the 2nd youngest team now (not verified) So yes we are not close to being good yet, but the youth does give some hope.
3. We still have 7 picks in the first 4 rounds this summer. That will help re-stock the cupboards.
4. Tocchets game plus playing the kids plus Hronek delayed start means our tank odds are still good.
5. Re: Hronek deal, agree timing was bad to be a buyer and why not protect the pick? But this comes to conjecture — its as likely that we’re idiots and Stevy Y is a genius ripping us off with a broken item AS we identified the guy we wanted, he didnt want to let this guy go and this is the price for a premium RHD whose arrows are all pointing up. Nobody knows here, give the guy a chance.
6. If you dont want to give him a chance and you dont want him here at all and you think they shouldve sold EP and QH and hoarded picks and that being historically bad for 2-3 years is our best odds at a cup long term… you have a good argument, and this is where i run out of silver linings. But it wasnt gonna happen.

Ps another interesting tidbit. Boomer Gordon on SiriusXM made a great point about how the salary cap has been artificially flattened for a long time — first from those absurdly long deals that favored term over $ (starting with DiPietro, including Luongo and all the rest), then thru covid. So as a percentage of total the league maximum contracts are quite low (the context was what a good deal Pastarnak is, how much Matthews is going to cash in shortly, $16M easy…) In any case it made me feel better about Miller if we’re stuck with him long-term, as did seeing guys like Zuccarello continue to perform and be useful.

This team doesn’t have to continue being this awful .. they are young and have a good building blocks. OEL is the only awful contract and can be bought out in a year or so… like them or not this management group has shown more competency than Benning. But, yeah …Aquallini

 

[IComeInPeace]

Random thought I had this am while on the treadmill:

I wonder what Jim Benning is thinking right now knowing that well before 2 seasons had even passed since the ‘OEL/Garland for a 1st‘ trade occurred, both of those guys were already buyout candidates.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

A Boatload of Undrafted Free Agents Incoming!

 

[Hit the post]

What's incorrect? If they wanted to change the coach last offseason then change the coach. The contract that Boudreau signed was a 1 year contract with an option year. Both the Canucks and Boudreau get to choose whether they will exercise the option with the Canucks choosing first. If the Canucks decide not to exercise the option year then Boudreau gets a lump sum payment. According to CF, Boudreau's option year was for $2.5M. Logically speaking, there is no way that declining to exercise the option year would cost the Canucks $2.5M or more. Usually, compensation for not picking up an option is a whole lot less. Again, Aquilini begged JR to take the job. Do you really believe that Aquilini would prevent JR from making a coaching change? This is the same owner who allowed Linden to fire Torts with 4x$2M left on his contract. I mean maybe money is tighter than before but I have trouble believing that JR was forced to pick up Boudreau's option.

And the whole "JR didn't approve of Boudreau" narrative is even more maddening. Aquilini asked JR what he thought of Boudreau before hiring Boudreau. JR decided not to comment before he agreed to take the job. He could have told Aquilini that he didn't think Boudreau would be a ideal (hint hint) and provided a couple of suggestions but leave it to Aquilini to decide. He could have told Aquilini that if he was to take the job he would prefer to bring his own coach in. There are many ways in which JR could have hinted to Aquilini that he wouldn't hire Boudreau. Instead he didn't comment. JR had like a list of GM candidates ready to go by the time he took the job. Did he not have a list of coaching candidates as well? And no, I don't buy into the narrative that JR had zero idea that he was interested in taking the job so he didn't bother to comment.

Whether one was "for" or "against" Boudreau, it's kind of doing it half ass backwards (hiring the head coach before getting a new GM).

 

[valkynax]

Ugh. How do you think this comes off?

Does it look like I give a shit how this comes off?

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Random thought I had this am while on the treadmill:

I wonder what Jim Benning is thinking right now knowing that well before 2 seasons had even passed since the ‘OEL/Garland for a 1st‘ trade occurred, both of those guys were already buyout candidates.

Nah, Jim Benning is probably feeling satisfaction seeing a President, GM and 12 AGMs continue his vision and build around his core pieces.

All hail Jim Benning.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Failure to Launch?

CLAUSE DETAILS: Starting July 1, 2022 the player submits a 10 team no trade list.

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

 

[krutovsdonut]

I am giving this management team until the draft,,,and if I don't see what I am liking,,I am done.I can't take this crap anymore.As paying fans,we deserve so much better.

it has been two tdls and a summer so i think you are being too patient.

they are not willing to make sacrifices with the roster to tackle the obvious structural issues. they are going to try and outgrow and outspend their problems.

so this summer they will maybe do buyouts and accept longterm cap pain to give them some spending money. maybe myers and oel. or maybe they will just run with a hugh ltir reservoir. who knows. but they will spend to the cap. for sure.

and they are going to sign european and ncaa free agents to try and infill. i expect more russians.

it is exactly what benning did. the main difference is that they are trying to "retool" a machine that never was. as a result they have even less resources to dedicate towards a background lowkey rebuild than benning did. we will be lucky if they hold onto our own firsts.