Management Thread | Who needs draft picks Edition

[mriswith]

They didn't trade their best players for draft picks. Hughes is not an easy piece to find even when you are drafting high every year. That's a huge piece on d like Makar. Pettersson is a 100 plus point (soon to be) Selke type player at 24 years old. That's another huge piece similar to Mackinnon. And now we have an opportunity to add another Pettersson/Hughes level player.

Maybe there is an example, but has there ever been a team with 2 young franchise level players that decided to go full rebuild instead of building around those players?

Colorado became a contender off of cap advantaged contracts to those players, not just based on having the players. It gets much, much harder for them next year after already having gotten harder this year, despite having the same core.

It's not just the players, it's the whole picture. It's the contracts to those players, it's the supporting group and their contracts and the farm to support a window too.

Full rebuild is trading everyone. Most of us wanted to build around Pettersson and Hughes, but do it properly over a couple years building up towards it. What we're doing is pretending that we're the NYR or Boston when we're side by side with Arizona in the standings.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The issue is who they targeted. I disagree with the retooling on the fly method, but I understand the reasoning. The real issue is that they squandered their only assets on another undersized defender who has issues in his own zone. It's also how they keep adding Cap without removing it. It's put them in a position where they have next to no flexibility

I've heard all sorts of things about Hronek, but I'll wait until I see him utilized on the Canucks D before i start jumping to rash conclusions.

We still have our high first round pick..and yes, they have cap issues..There was absolutely no way out of paying the piper for a good mid 20's RHD..It was the most pressing organizational need, and we didnt have one in the system.

 

[valkynax]

Comparing this team to Avalanche is very much like...comparing this team to Avalanche.

This comparison is so utterly f***ing delusional I cannot even find an analogy for it.

 

[canucksfan]

Really interested in how they clear cap space. They have tried to clear space before and have failed. This off-season they will have to and teams will know that. Not a great position to be in.

 

[me2]

i have figured after the horvat trade that their retool is lip-service doing the minimum they can get away with to keep petey and hughes happy while trying to stockpile picks to create a deep prospect pool.

so beauvillier as a near-cap dump made excellent sense, as did adding talented reclamation projects. low cost assets for help now, and high cost assets for a rebuild.

then hronek whiplashed me and now this rumour, if true, suggests they are all in on a retool. that's insane. even the players like petey and hughes should see the folly of that plan 2 years out when they have a paperthin retool limping along with no prospects to infill it.

If it doesn't work they will just demand out and force a trade or not extend long term. Not much risk to them.

 

[Bleach Clean]

This franchise just hates 2nd rounders. That's like 15 traded away in the last 20 years.

"Draft picks this year? What do they mean?" - Frankie Corrado

But Hronek was a late 2nd, how many of those turn out?

 

[logan5]

Comparing this team to Avalanche is very much like...comparing this team to Avalanche.

This comparison is so utterly f***ing delusional I cannot even find an analogy for it.

The point I was trying to make was that a lot of the main pieces that won the cup in 21-22 were also part of a team that finished .293 5 years earlier. The Avalanche stuck with their core guys through a lot of lean years. I would compare this years Canucks to the 16-17 Avalanche. The Avs finished last that year and subsequently ended up drafting Makar to add to an already talented roster they built up. Similar to the Canucks this year where they are going to add another huge piece on top of Hughes Petey Demko Kuzmenko etc. And I am more comparing the evolution of an eventual contender as opposed to a straight up talent comparison.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Thought experiment:

Weight how many years it takes the average pick to turn out vs how many average years it has taken the Vancouver Canucks Pro Scouting Staff to produce a competent playoff roster. The latter is what Allvin is banking on.

 

[Love]

Thought experiment:

Weight how many years it takes the average pick to turn out vs how many average years it has taken the Vancouver Canucks Pro Scouting Staff to produce a competent playoff roster. The latter is what Allvin is banking on.

Well if the picks they make are more guys like Lekkerimaki then I guess Allvin will be right

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I understand completely that if we rebuild than Hughes and Pettersson will want out. That being said, the same strategy of building around Pettersson has been used since 2019 with no long term planning and a lot of shortcuts, and it has failed time and time again. Meanwhile the teams that had more of a long-term plan are now on the upswing, while we are still a bottom 10 team is capped out, drafted twice in the first 2 rounds in the last 3 drafts, and has traded away a first and 2 seconds in the next 2 drafts. It shouldn't be surprised Pikachu face when people don't have faith in the plan anymore when it has been nothing but failure. A restaurant can only promise a steak and serve a turd sandwich so many times.

Even if things improve this offseason, how long is our window going to be. Most of the value cap wise for our team is only for another year or 2.
-Pettersson has 1 year left after this season. On pace for 105-106 points so he is due a big raise.
-Hronek has 1 year left on his deal after this season.
-Kuzmenko has 2 more years after this season.
-How long before Miller isn't worth his new deal? It could be 5 years from now it could be in a year or 2.
But we still have a lot of bad cap that negates this. And yeah, they can still unload cap this offseason, but they have talked about the importance of moving out cap since they got here and haven't moved out shit. I think not moving out Boeser this deadline where the market for overpaid players was the highest its been in years was a huge mistake.

 

[valkynax]

The point I was trying to make was that a lot of the main pieces that won the cup in 21-22 were also part of a team that finished .293 5 years earlier. The Avalanche stuck with their core guys through a lot of lean years. I would compare this years Canucks to the 16-17 Avalanche. The Avs finished last that year and subsequently ended up drafting Makar to add to an already talented roster they built up. Similar to the Canucks this year where they are going to add another huge piece on top of Hughes Petey Demko Kuzmenko etc. And I am more comparing the evolution of an eventual contender as opposed to a straight up talent comparison.

16-17 Avalanche, they won the cup in 2022, so you're saying we are 6-7 years from the cup?

Hang on, weren't you the one who also proudly proclaimed that this team's rebuild was 7 years (that was back in JEB's era)? And you also said that if Alv n Moleman can't get their shit together and win the cup in 2 years, because of the absolutely WEALTH left us by the beloved dear leader, that they should be fired?

I would say this is moving the goal post but, I don't even see the goal post anymore.

 

[Gurn]

"But that draft pick won't be ready for 2 or 3 years"

did I miss the announcement that the team was folding after the next two seasons?
Or will robots replace the players, so they won't need people then?

So many people seem content to just keep kicking the problems further down the road.- 'Why worry, my kids can clean up the mess, after I die'

 

[logan5]

16-17 Avalanche, they won the cup in 2022, so you're saying we are 6-7 years from the cup?

Hang on, weren't you the one who also proudly proclaimed that this team's rebuild was 7 years (that was back in JEB's era)? And you also said that if Alv n Moleman can't get their shit together and win the cup in 2 years, because of the absolutely WEALTH left us by the beloved dear leader, that they should be fired?

I would say this is moving the goal post but, I don't even see the goal post anymore.

You are twisting my words a bit. I said a rebuild takes 7 years at least, and of course the list I provided showing how many teams take 7 to 9 years or longer to become a consistent play-off contender in the cap era. And I didn't say win the cup in 2 years.

I dunno man. I took you off the ignore list on the chance that we got past all the Benning stuff and other hostilities, but I can see where this is headed.

 

[valkynax]

You are twisting my words a bit. I said a rebuild takes 7 years at least, and of course the list I provided showing how many teams take 7 to 9 years or longer to become a consistent play-off contender in the cap era. And I didn't say win the cup in 2 years.

I dunno man. I took you off the ignore list on the chance that we got past all the Benning stuff and other hostilities, but I can see where this is headed.

And out comes the victims card.

How about this, you put me back on the ignore list and have yourself a nice day. I consider such gesture a badge of honor.

 

[arttk]

I understand completely that if we rebuild than Hughes and Pettersson will want out. That being said, the same strategy of building around Pettersson has been used since 2019 with no long term planning and a lot of shortcuts, and it has failed time and time again. Meanwhile the teams that had more of a long-term plan are now on the upswing, while we are still a bottom 10 team is capped out, drafted twice in the first 2 rounds in the last 3 drafts, and has traded away a first and 2 seconds in the next 2 drafts. It shouldn't be surprised Pikachu face when people don't have faith in the plan anymore when it has been nothing but failure. A restaurant can only promise a steak and serve a turd sandwich so many times.

Even if things improve this offseason, how long is our window going to be. Most of the value cap wise for our team is only for another year or 2.
-Pettersson has 1 year left after this season. On pace for 105-106 points so he is due a big raise.
-Hronek has 1 year left on his deal after this season.
-Kuzmenko has 2 more years after this season.
-How long before Miller isn't worth his new deal? It could be 5 years from now it could be in a year or 2.
But we still have a lot of bad cap that negates this. And yeah, they can still unload cap this offseason, but they have talked about the importance of moving out cap since they got here and haven't moved out shit. I think not moving out Boeser this deadline where the market for overpaid players was the highest its been in years was a huge mistake.

Sigh, I feel like this needs to be explained time and time again. The problem isn’t about Petey or whatever the core is, the problem is the person “building” the team was mother f***ing Jim Benning.
He’s literallly shit Midas where almost every thing he does turns into literal dog shit. The team sucks not because the core sucks, the team sucks because the guy who built it is the most incompetent GM in like the last 30 years.

I don’t even think the problem is taking short cuts. The problem is Benning is a shit talent evaluator and managed to bleed out assets to bring on shit players on massive contracts leaving this team in the most unique position.

Is it fixable? Who knows, but if it’s not trending upward soon, like next year soon, Petey and Hughes and Demko will ask to be traded and a rebuild will be forced upon this team.

 

[logan5]

And out comes the victims card.

How about this, you put me back on the ignore list and have yourself a nice day. I consider such gesture a badge of honor.

You are not victimizing me in any way. The constant bitter and angry tone is off-putting though. So yeah, happy Friday.

 

[bandwagonesque]

You are twisting my words a bit. I said a rebuild takes 7 years at least, and of course the list I provided showing how many teams take 7 to 9 years or longer to become a consistent play-off contender in the cap era. And I didn't say win the cup in 2 years.

I dunno man. I took you off the ignore list on the chance that we got past all the Benning stuff and other hostilities, but I can see where this is headed.

A rebuilt team on the verge of contention typically has a farm system, draft picks and isn't in the back half of several huge contracts given out or acquired at various points to unsuccessfully try to end the rebuild.

 

[valkynax]

You are not victimizing me in any way. The constant angry tone is off-putting though. So yeah, happy Friday.

Just a FYI, whether I'm on your list or not, I don't have a single poster on my ignore list. None. Even those whose views I consistently disagree with.

And it's not just me, as far as I can remember, your views on management have been so ridiculous to the point almost every poster would disagree, and post factual rebuttals. So unless you think you're Nicolaus Copernicus, you should probably re-assess your views on these topics.

A rebuilt team on the verge of contention typically has a farm system, draft picks and isn't in the back half of several huge contracts given out or acquired at various points to unsuccessfully try to end the rebuild.

The way I see it now, I'm still VERY frustrated by what this regime has been trying to do, and the vibes of JEB 2.0 is becoming stronger. That being said, if this is what they think will bring the team into contention...so be it.

But if this shit doesn't work out, their heads will be in the noose, then skewered on rusty pikes and put on display right next to JEB and his buddy Weisbrod.

 

[logan5]

Just a FYI, whether I'm on your list or not, I don't have a single poster on my ignore list. None. Even those whose views I consistently disagree with.

And it's not just me, as far as I can remember, your views on management have been so ridiculous to the point almost every poster would disagree, and post factual rebuttals. So unless you think you're Nicolaus Copernicus, you should probably re-assess your views on these topics.

It's not that we disagree on something. I have no problem with that. It's just that every time you respond to me, it's in an angry or inflammatory tone. And It's not playing the victim if you don't want to partake in an on line conversation with an angry person. Anyways, for both our sakes, I'll put you back on ignore. Nothing personal.

 

[gringo]

It is absolutely hilarious that we have almost 4m dead cap (buyouts+retention) dropping off this summer and are already at the salary cap for next year.

While 6th last in the league. Buyers at the deadline anyways. Net negative on picks at the upcoming draft.

Waive Boeser problem solved

Really interested in how they clear cap space. They have tried to clear space before and have failed. This off-season they will have to and teams will know that. Not a great position to be in.

Boeser to waivers as I’ve said

 

[canucksfan]

Waive Boeser problem solved


Boeser to waivers as I’ve said

What happens if no one claims and he reports to Abbotsford? How much cap is saved?

 

[credulous]

What happens if no one claims and he reports to Abbotsford? How much cap is saved?

1.025m i think

 

[logan5]

What is Boeser like 20 pounds overweight? Lose some weight Brock and get faster, score consistently to start next season (I don't think anyone will take him for nothing),then maybe we can trade you.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

It's not that we disagree on something. I have no problem with that.

You do get pissy when people drag you over things.

 

[brock hughes007]

I am giving this management team until the draft,,,and if I don't see what I am liking,,I am done.I can't take this crap anymore.As paying fans,we deserve so much better.