Management Thread | The Song Remains the Same Edition

[Jyrki21]

FRANK!!!!!!!!!!!!

we would have been in such a better spot if that frigan deal went through for the islanders
just amateur management not believing that Lou is that temperamental even though the precedent's were their constantly.

Did this proposed deal actually “leak”? I don’t remember anyone observing anything at the time other than that Allvin and Lamoriello were visibly speaking on the draft floor. Anything beyond that was speculation until later, wasn’t it? Do I have that wrong?

 

[timw33]

Did this proposed deal actually “leak”? I don’t remember anyone observing anything at the time other than that Allvin and Lamoriello were visibly speaking on the draft floor. Anything beyond that was speculation until later, wasn’t it? Do I have that wrong?

This is what I could find off top of head from draft day:

 

[rypper]

With Pagnotta and Irf both working for the 4th period, I wonder if they were just human centipede-ing information back and forth to each other. Irf "my source (pagnotta) is saying this" pagnotta "my source (irf) is telling me this" etc.

 

[timw33]

With Pagnotta and Irf both working for the 4th period, I wonder if they were just human centipede-ing information back and forth to each other. Irf "my source (pagnotta) is saying this" pagnotta "my source (irf) is telling me this" etc.

Would not surprise me. They could have simply speculated too close to the truth by putting together pieces and seeing them talking on the draft floor. But I feel like a deal getting blown up because Lou operates like a mob boss still has a lot of credibility.

 

[Izzy Goodenough]

Bik & The Boss​

Canucks insider Irfaan Gaffar joins Bik Nizzar and Craig MacEwen to talk about the blockbuster deal between the Canucks and Coyotes.

 

[PG Canuck]

Boeser for Dumba or Severson. Just announce it already.

 

[God]

Jesus, I would've loved if they dealt Miller for the pick + Raty + Beau then dealt the pick for Romanov.

But honestly, things are going to leak out. I'm not mad at the media, I'm mad that the old boys club has let Lou stick around for this long with his bullshit.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Jesus, I would've loved if they dealt Miller for the pick + Raty + Beau then dealt the pick for Romanov.

But honestly, things are going to leak out. I'm not mad at the media, I'm mad that the old boys club has let Lou stick around for this long with his bullshit.

I’d have been just as happy with drafting Nazar as the entire package and freeing up $8 mill in cap space.

Pretty amazing that management blew two different offers of 30th overall (Lambert) + Lundqvist (Dallas 1st) + Chytil (going to score 30+ goals and 50-60 points this year) or 13th overall in 2022 (Nazar) with potentially more assets.

 

[m9]

Did this proposed deal actually “leak”? I don’t remember anyone observing anything at the time other than that Allvin and Lamoriello were visibly speaking on the draft floor. Anything beyond that was speculation until later, wasn’t it? Do I have that wrong?

That's what makes no sense... nothing really leaked. And the part that did "leak" seemed to be solely based on a visible conversation between Lou & Allvin so why would Lou be mad?

Like I said in the summer, there's more to this and there are so many moving parts (Canucks rumored to trade down with Montreal that morning, Montreal trading for Dach, Isles trading the pick for a d-man) that I'm not sure we ever figure it out.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Hmm. I remember the smoke around Miller to the Islanders, I think it's good to take this rumour with a huge grain of salt. If it is true...what's better, 2022 13th overall + Horvat or 2023 15th - 20th overall + Miller...

 

[gringo]

Thinking that it's the fault of the captain that management keeps bringing in overpaid older players who stink and as a result the team sucks is just the dumbest thing ever.

There is no level of pure leadership ability that would have been able to lift the Horvat-era Canucks over the rakes that they kept laying out for themselves to step on. It's absurd to blame the results of the team on this guy

So he was part of the solution not part of the problem… I guess it’s just that easy to explain away

Point is...the problem is JT Miller. JT Miller is the problem in that lockerroom. You can see it in interviews and his shitty behavior off the ice.

Proof?

 

[tradervik]

Peej (Patrick Johnson) counters the “Rutherford wants out” narrative:

Canucks: Bet on Jim Rutherford staying as club president

‘Rutherford doesn’t want out,’ says a source close to the situation. ‘He’s stepping back a little, but still involved.’

theprovince.com

 

[Vector]

Peej (Patrick Johnson) counters the “Rutherford wants out” narrative:

Canucks: Bet on Jim Rutherford staying as club president

‘Rutherford doesn’t want out,’ says a source close to the situation. ‘He’s stepping back a little, but still involved.’

theprovince.com

First part is him basically saying there’s definitely a power struggle between management and ownership. Doesn’t get the sense Rutherford wants out. Thinks the rumours are he’s complaining to his East coast buddies and they are interpreting it as he wants out.

 

[Vector]

 

[Quinntessential]

We can get New Jersey to overpay for Quinn Hughes but that might accidentally gift them a dynasty. I wouldn’t do it unless I thought Quinn won’t re- sign here at the end of his deal. I can see a lot of pressure on NJ to reunite the Hughes bros, a good GM can take advantage.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Peej (Patrick Johnson) counters the “Rutherford wants out” narrative:

Canucks: Bet on Jim Rutherford staying as club president

‘Rutherford doesn’t want out,’ says a source close to the situation. ‘He’s stepping back a little, but still involved.’

theprovince.com

lol, this organization rattles so easily right now

 

[krutovsdonut]

Thinking that it's the fault of the captain that management keeps bringing in overpaid older players who stink and as a result the team sucks is just the dumbest thing ever.

There is no level of pure leadership ability that would have been able to lift the Horvat-era Canucks over the rakes that they kept laying out for themselves to step on. It's absurd to blame the results of the team on this guy

this is a pretty good post. my only quibble is i would not limit the list of obstacles to overpaid older players.

 

[m9]

Didn't he help spread the original rumour?

This stuff is so dumb. Wouldn't JR just quit if he wanted to?

 

[RobertKron]

What a f***ing circus. This is like some Trump Admin level tomfoolery.

Rachel thinks the old captain was “part of the solution” in terms of poor room culture but the guy captain for years letting the room degenerate.

The f*** is he going to do? Kidnap their kids? Poison their dog?

 

[Hansen]

They added like 50 people to the front office at management level and now theyre confused about where the leaks are coming from??

 

[Vector]

Didn't he help spread the original rumour?

This stuff is so dumb. Wouldn't JR just quit if he wanted to?

Yeah. He corroborated that he’d been getting the same texts from people.

 

[Quinntessential]

Anyone else intrigued by the idea of trading every non Scandinavian player from our system and replacing them with Swedes, Finns, and a token Dane? They generally seem to click together when a few of them are on the same team, what if it was the whole team? We could have team Northwestern Europe, it would be fun I think. Also don’t ask me how many beers I’ve had tonight already. I’ve already given it a name: Project Need for Swede.

 

[Steamer]

23 teams dude this stuff is just funny. The guy I quoted (not you, you sensitive snowflake) brought up the OHL , which is why i brought up Keefe. It’s not deflection to compare two players treatment.

What I will say is Keefe is probably the most over-privileged little bitch to ever coach in the nhl and almost certainly got the job because he knew the right people who overlooked his disgusting defence of David frost

and totally irrelevant to my post or this discussion.

 

[Steamer]

Weird how you completely ignored someone (me) who wasn't deflecting.

Aliu was not part of 23 "different" organizations.

If we're looking strictly at his pro career.

He was part of Chicago, where he played for Rockford and Toledo. That's one (1) organization.

He was then traded to Atlanta, which became Winnipeg, where he played for the Chicago Wolves, Peoria Rivermen and Colorado Eagles. That's two (2) organizations.

But using Steve Simmons math, that equates to eight (8) organizations.




Like PK Subban? Who had to deal with fans coming to games in blackface?
Like Trevor Daley, whose coach (Vanbiesbrouck) called him the gamer word to other teammates?
Like Wayne Simmonds, who had a banana thrown at him during a shootout attempt?
Like Devante Smith-Pelley who had racist stuff shouted at him by Blackhawks fans?

Using Aliu's career trajectory to completely write off the existence of racism in hockey or that it might have played a role in said trajectory because 'other players do well' is inane and, to me, speaks to people not really wanting to deal with uncomfortable truths in the game.

I'm not the most politically correct guy, and I do think that we've veered a little too far, but I do think that there are issues that people need to look at.

Aliu was touted at one point as a top 5 draft pick. But he had the misfortune (like many hockey players did) of running into Steve Downie, who was a complete shithead.

He didn't want to deal with Downie's hazing bullshit, which led to Aliu being seen as a problem player. (And yet Downie, who has a full f***ing career of horrible, observed behavior, with very few people making as big a stink about this off-ice behavior as they've done with Aliu.)

He also didn't want to deal with Bill Peters straight up calling him the gamer word. And because hockey is nothing if not insular and protective, he was also subsequently punished for that indiscretion.

Again, was he really that much worse as a youngster than Patrick Kane et al, who acted like immature dummies?

Here's more food for thought: what year was the first black Olympian named to Team USA's hockey team?

Gee ,where does want start with a victimhood rant like this? Face facts, Aliu wasn't good enough end of story. As for racism in the sport, if you could read. I never denied it's existence, I don't buy this particular race card claim by Aliu ,that he isn't in the league because of systemic racism blah blah blah. How come there aren't more South Asians in the NHL? Is that racism too? Is every player of colour who doesn't make NHL a victim of racism? The NHL cares about one thing as Gary "The Dirt Bag" Bettman has proven.$$$$$$$$. Kyle Beach, oh boo hoo, ban a couple of people and fine the team a few million. Any real punishment? LMAO The NHL doesn't care if you are purple with pink polka dots if you make the league money. Oh and Jake Virtanen was a top 5 pick so there goes your argument about Aliu being touted, means nothing until you prove it on the ice.

Yeah this is moronic. Someone pointing out examples that attack the points you are trying to make is not deflection. They are counterpoints, and your response was actually a more real example of deflection. You refused to engage with the points being made and focused on something unrelated (and incorrect).

As well, saying "you will note I pointed out how many African American NHL players there are now" doesn't mean anything at all. The existence of more non-white players in the nHL is not in and of itself at all an indicator of a lack of racism in the game. It's far more indicative of a demographic shift in North America specifically, where the game has caught on with more fans overall and more non-white athletes are bringing their skills to bear in hockey.

Your message here really reads to me more like "hey these people have gotten enough, they should learn to suck it up", which feels very f***ed up to me

What points? He brought up stuff totally unrelated to racism or can you not understand written English? You are demonstrating the typical I don't like this person so let's imply he is a racist. It isn't hard to imply what you are by what you post.

 

[Steamer]

This whole fever dream assumes that any business person who owned the team would be cryogenically frozen in 1996 and released in 2023 like Austin Powers with a briefcase, without any relevant knowledge or learning about the way that successful hockey teams are run these days.

I would expect that a business owning the Canucks would result in far more reasoned analysis being done about the models that have been successful in the NHL in the last decade, which likely would result in far more intelligent decisions being made than we have seen in the recent past

If that is what you expect , you have just demonstrated to everyone how worthless your analysis is. It's the Slum Lords or have you been asleep for the last 40 years?