Management Thread | The Song Remains the Same Edition

[canucksfan]

Tallon would be horrendous for multiple reasons.

 

[gringo]

It seems pretty obvious that these guys are having major struggles dealing with the dipshit owner so these rumours probably aren't surprising. When you're 75 and have 3 Cups you probably don't want to be dealing with that shit.

As for what would happen if Rutherford goes ... who knows. There's no way they could sell Tallon in this market and it would be a disaster if they tried.

Does Francesco finally go the Jerry Jones route and just publicly take over?

 

[credulous]

Dhaliwal corroborating Simmons story.

rutherford probably saw pettersson's interview with marek and friedman and realized he needs to get out now before that whole situation goes down

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

You don't see me defending Keefe. It's irrelevant. This technique is called deflection. Instead of addressing the subject you deflect by attempting to tie it to a completely different circumstance. Hey, have you noticed how many sexual assault scandals are going on solving junior hockey players? They are not angels and there is lots of B ess. But either Aliu had the bad luck to wind up with 23 different racist organization or there was a problem with him.

Weird how you completely ignored someone (me) who wasn't deflecting.

Aliu was not part of 23 "different" organizations.

If we're looking strictly at his pro career.

He was part of Chicago, where he played for Rockford and Toledo. That's one (1) organization.

He was then traded to Atlanta, which became Winnipeg, where he played for the Chicago Wolves, Peoria Rivermen and Colorado Eagles. That's two (2) organizations.

But using Steve Simmons math, that equates to eight (8) organizations.

If you could read properly, you will note I pointed out how many African American NHL players there are now. Interesting how their careers didn't happen to go through 23 racist based organizations isn't it?

Like PK Subban? Who had to deal with fans coming to games in blackface?
Like Trevor Daley, whose coach (Vanbiesbrouck) called him the gamer word to other teammates?
Like Wayne Simmonds, who had a banana thrown at him during a shootout attempt?
Like Devante Smith-Pelley who had racist stuff shouted at him by Blackhawks fans?

Using Aliu's career trajectory to completely write off the existence of racism in hockey or that it might have played a role in said trajectory because 'other players do well' is inane and, to me, speaks to people not really wanting to deal with uncomfortable truths in the game.

I'm not the most politically correct guy, and I do think that we've veered a little too far, but I do think that there are issues that people need to look at.

Aliu was touted at one point as a top 5 draft pick. But he had the misfortune (like many hockey players did) of running into Steve Downie, who was a complete shithead.

He didn't want to deal with Downie's hazing bullshit, which led to Aliu being seen as a problem player. (And yet Downie, who has a full f***ing career of horrible, observed behavior, with very few people making as big a stink about this off-ice behavior as they've done with Aliu.)

He also didn't want to deal with Bill Peters straight up calling him the gamer word. And because hockey is nothing if not insular and protective, he was also subsequently punished for that indiscretion.

Again, was he really that much worse as a youngster than Patrick Kane et al, who acted like immature dummies?

Here's more food for thought: what year was the first black Olympian named to Team USA's hockey team?

 

[VanJack]

So the 'rumor du jour' is that Rutherford wants to put this gong-show in Vancouver in his rear-view mirror.

This hardly qualifies as 'stop the presses' news. He's 73 years old and maybe thought that somehow this gig in Vancouver would be like the one he had in Pittsburgh. Who knows what he thought going into this? But it really was a terrible signing by Aquilini in the first place.

But just another chapter in a season that's becoming so farcical it's almost laughable. So if Rutherford pulls the pin, what happens all his front office hires? What happens to the coaches, who were all Boudreau acolytes.

This team hasn't had a home playoff date since 2014.....let that sink in for a moment. And the likelihood they're going to bump this playoff slump in the next few seasons is looking increasingly remote.

Turmoil in the front office; revolving coaches; and a roster that looks like it's going to be in a state of flux for years.

But ultimately the buck stops with the owner--he's the captain of this listing ship even if he's too dense to realize it.

 

[TruGr1t]

If Rutherford walks in another legitimate PR disaster for the team, hopefully that is the last straw for the rest of the Aquilini family and they remove Francesco from anything to do with the team.

 

[rypper]

What happens to the coaches, who were all Boudreau acolytes.

I don't think any of them were?

King - holdover from previous staff.
Yeo - picked by management.
Crawford - hired by Allvin, but clearly has a past connection to the team.
Colition - management hire.
Obviously Tocchet and who he brought in have nothing to do with Boudreau.

 

[tradervik]

Noted Canucks insider Steve Simmons is the source of the "JR wants out" rumour so I would treat it with the same respect people show to a roll of toilet paper.

 

[Peen]

Noted Canucks insider Steve Simmons is the source of the "JR wants out" rumour so I would treat it with the same respect people show to a roll of toilet paper.

Dhaliwal corroborated that he is hearing the same thing.

 

[tradervik]

Dhaliwal corroborated that he is hearing the same thing.

Was that on D&D or in a tweet?

 

[rypper]

Was that on D&D or in a tweet?

D&D.

 

[LordBacon]

If Rutherford walks in another legitimate PR disaster for the team, hopefully that is the last straw for the rest of the Aquilini family and they remove Francesco from anything to do with the team.

 

[theguardianII]

I think the Rutherford stuff is conjecture more than anything, he wants to step back out of the lime light and do just the President stuff, Allvin is the GM in charge of the team, it is all on him and he now makes or breaks his reputation. This could be "managing up" too.

So the Aquilini's sell the team to another no face conglomerate only concerned with making money, internal cap is established and an accountant assigned to run the team. The chairman of this conglomerate is not a hockey guy but a business man and runs the team like an entertainment company knowing he has a captive audience and an asset worth close to or more than a billion dollars and if he can reduce attendance enough he can move the team to a tax friendly state, like Texas to play in Houston or Kansas or maybe even Quebec and increase the value of the team by 15% or more.

Or they just keep the team here and there is nobody to complain about because the board of directors make most decisions and none are hockey people by comptrollers, accountants and lawyers.

Just like Toronto had for decades when the Teacher's union owned the team. Or when McCaw owned the Canucks.

Then they sign every "famous" old player to huge contracts to attract fans and jettison every younger player about to get too expensive. Like Messier!

And that would make about 5 posters really happy because they really just want to hate someone.

When in doubt and looking for someone to blame, don't think just blame the top dog.

I seem to remember when Gretzky had a press conference and turned the attention away from the players and team staff and everyone thought that was an ingenious move but if an owner allows himself to be a lightning rod he is bad.

Well for some fans they no longer have to think, they have their scape goat even for bad weather.

 

[StickShift]

I imagine FA got angry at Rutherford for the Boudreau blowback and ownership being called out instead of management in the national media.

Rutherford is probably taking an “I’m too old for this shit” approach to that.

 

[RobertKron]

I think the Rutherford stuff is conjecture more than anything, he wants to step back out of the lime light and do just the President stuff, Allvin is the GM in charge of the team, it is all on him and he now makes or breaks his reputation. This could be "managing up" too.

So the Aquilini's sell the team to another no face conglomerate only concerned with making money, internal cap is established and an accountant assigned to run the team. The chairman of this conglomerate is not a hockey guy but a business man and runs the team like an entertainment company knowing he has a captive audience and an asset worth close to or more than a billion dollars and if he can reduce attendance enough he can move the team to a tax friendly state, like Texas to play in Houston or Kansas or maybe even Quebec and increase the value of the team by 15% or more.

Or they just keep the team here and there is nobody to complain about because the board of directors make most decisions and none are hockey people by comptrollers, accountants and lawyers.

Just like Toronto had for decades when the Teacher's union owned the team. Or when McCaw owned the Canucks.

Then they sign every "famous" old player to huge contracts to attract fans and jettison every younger player about to get too expensive. Like Messier!

And that would make about 5 posters really happy because they really just want to hate someone.

When in doubt and looking for someone to blame, don't think just blame the top dog.

I seem to remember when Gretzky had a press conference and turned the attention away from the players and team staff and everyone thought that was an ingenious move but if an owner allows himself to be a lightning rod he is bad.

Well for some fans they no longer have to think, they have their scape goat even for bad weather.

Okay

 

[tantalum]

We will see on Rutherford though I always suspected we were looking at a short 2-3 year tenure with him simply given his age. Wouldn't be shocked if he leaves though I would hope he leaves after finding his successor. It would be strange to put yourself in a position to be a shield between ownership and management, bring your guys in and then take that shield away. Maybe it's FA meddling causing him to do it, maybe it's a loss of passion or maybe it's health. If it's the first one the family has to put an end to FA.

On another note...every game that goes by Schenn increases his trade value. You are to the point that someone needing significant help on the back end may actually offer up a late round first.

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

You don't see me defending Keefe. It's irrelevant. This technique is called deflection. Instead of addressing the subject you deflect by attempting to tie it to a completely different circumstance. Hey, have you noticed how many sexual assault scandals are going on solving junior hockey players? They are not angels and there is lots of B ess. But either Aliu had the bad luck to wind up with 23 different racist organization or there was a problem with him. If you could read properly, you will note I pointed out how many African American NHL players there are now. Interesting how their careers didn't happen to go through 23 racist based organizations isn't it?

Yeah this is moronic. Someone pointing out examples that attack the points you are trying to make is not deflection. They are counterpoints, and your response was actually a more real example of deflection. You refused to engage with the points being made and focused on something unrelated (and incorrect).

As well, saying "you will note I pointed out how many African American NHL players there are now" doesn't mean anything at all. The existence of more non-white players in the nHL is not in and of itself at all an indicator of a lack of racism in the game. It's far more indicative of a demographic shift in North America specifically, where the game has caught on with more fans overall and more non-white athletes are bringing their skills to bear in hockey.

Your message here really reads to me more like "hey these people have gotten enough, they should learn to suck it up", which feels very f***ed up to me

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

I think the Rutherford stuff is conjecture more than anything, he wants to step back out of the lime light and do just the President stuff, Allvin is the GM in charge of the team, it is all on him and he now makes or breaks his reputation. This could be "managing up" too.

So the Aquilini's sell the team to another no face conglomerate only concerned with making money, internal cap is established and an accountant assigned to run the team. The chairman of this conglomerate is not a hockey guy but a business man and runs the team like an entertainment company knowing he has a captive audience and an asset worth close to or more than a billion dollars and if he can reduce attendance enough he can move the team to a tax friendly state, like Texas to play in Houston or Kansas or maybe even Quebec and increase the value of the team by 15% or more.

Or they just keep the team here and there is nobody to complain about because the board of directors make most decisions and none are hockey people by comptrollers, accountants and lawyers.

Just like Toronto had for decades when the Teacher's union owned the team. Or when McCaw owned the Canucks.

Then they sign every "famous" old player to huge contracts to attract fans and jettison every younger player about to get too expensive. Like Messier!

And that would make about 5 posters really happy because they really just want to hate someone.

When in doubt and looking for someone to blame, don't think just blame the top dog.

I seem to remember when Gretzky had a press conference and turned the attention away from the players and team staff and everyone thought that was an ingenious move but if an owner allows himself to be a lightning rod he is bad.

Well for some fans they no longer have to think, they have their scape goat even for bad weather.

This whole fever dream assumes that any business person who owned the team would be cryogenically frozen in 1996 and released in 2023 like Austin Powers with a briefcase, without any relevant knowledge or learning about the way that successful hockey teams are run these days.

I would expect that a business owning the Canucks would result in far more reasoned analysis being done about the models that have been successful in the NHL in the last decade, which likely would result in far more intelligent decisions being made than we have seen in the recent past

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

While it wouldn't surprise me if Rutherford wants out, if he really wanted to do it, I think he'd just resign. He did it in Pittsburgh - why not here?

 

[VanillaCoke]

Good riddance.

Gimme Gillis redux

 

[Nucker101]

This was super obvious. He's been planting the seeds for his exit. He even mentioned that he'll be here as long as health permits, and cited mental health which gives him an easy out.

I originally predicted that he'd leaver after next season, but I wonder if he might try to bolt sooner.

 

[supercanuck]

Dhaliwal corroborating Simmons story.

Is Dhaliwal's source Dale Tallon?

 

[VanJack]

So if all the smoke and fire is true.....the final sorry scenario will be playing out for the Canucks.

Owner actually hires the coach--Bruce Boudreau--before appointing Rutherford as the President. Boudreau isn't Rutherford's guy, and he probably wanted to relieve him at the end of last season.

But the team goes on an improbable 32-15 run and chants of "Bruce; there it is" reverberate in Rogers Arena. So Rutherford is stuck with him, because the owner hired him and gave him a two-year deal. So as this train-wreck season unfolds, the slow disintegration of Bruce's coaching career plays out in front of millions.

Finally, half way through the season, one supposes that the owner relented because he'd already paid out most of his salary, so Bruce is basically sacked on national television. Now it's Tocchet's turn with the season in the ash-can, but now the President apparently wants out.

You can't really make this stuff up......but with vain, dense and incompetent ownership, almost anything is possible. Even this 'Days of our Lives' script in Vancouver.

 

[geebster]

Not sure where this goes, but are they really shopping Demko? I mean he didn't inspire confidence this season but you aren't going to be able to replace him easily. We can't rely on 3rd or 4th string guys as a long term solution and don't have anyone in the pipeline. Seeing a lot of discussion elsewhere about it but it seems ludicrous to me.

 

[EpochLink]

Dhaliwal corroborating Simmons story.

So when’s ownership gonna call a press conference to announce them selling!?

The catastrophe of the front office ring around has to stop, the excuse train is at the end and them are the ones left.

The brand, which isn’t damaged enough is gonna get a new team president…again.