Management Discussion | Pre-Season Approaching

[credulous]

maybe we need a good vibes only version of this thread for people who don't want to read any criticism of the management group

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Oh gawd I never loved Benning...........I preached patience for the first several years........just like I am here. Eventually I clued in that Jimbo needed to wear velcro shoes and adjusted my attitude as such. Probably a good season too late but yeah it became pretty clear to me that Dim Jim was fully unqualified for the job. If it makes you feel better to think otherwise feel free........I'm have about as much interest in correcting u as I do in knowing the price of tea in China right now.

People on this board expecting current management go from a fat overweight and broke 30 year old into a stacked wealthy in shape stud overnight..........that's not gonna happen as the sins of Jimbo are not gonna be erased overnight.

For the most part I think management has done a decent job - other than re-signing Boeser (which would have been an incredibly tough decision but the right one to let him walk) and not saving that cap for a d man they've been fine.

Yes you can see from 4 solar systems away we need a massive upgrade on our D - sooner or later that will happen. .............Until then I'm gonna do the same thing as I've done - preach patience. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will this hockey club.



So we should have done what? Our team - despite your assertations - was never in a position to rebuild. We have too many high quality assets to do so.

If we don't fix the d at some point then yeah this management has failed.........until then I'm in wait and see mode and not rush to indict mode........

I mean you were making snide comments last year about how people being critical of management 7 years in would feel physical pain if they praised Benning so it is totally understandable why people are confused that you were, in actuality, critical of him.

 

[andora]

“If people want to bask in doom and gloom…” in a response to my post is imo making that claim.

Also referencing those critical as throwing themselves off bridges Is pretty gloomy.

Not sure about the rest of this, I don’t know specifically what youre taking about.

We just have different views on the phrase making a claim then

as for the rest of it nevermind then

 

[4Twenty]

Potato - potatoe

Feel free to dig up where i was optimistic when Beagle signed? That was an assinine signing from minute one. Benning never was able to walk away from something he had his sites on - that 4th year was completely unnecessary and we had ZERO need for a 4th line player to be paid that much. Funny u mention as the Beagle signing is probably one of the things I'm most pissed about from Bennings tenure (but hey let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story now right).

And just fyi you don't sound glad........most bitterish but I get things get misinterpreted by text........



Yeah rough crowd around here..........

Well im not making any sounds so there’s that…

Look be positive all you want. Like this:

GDT: - 2018 Free Agency: Jay Beagle 4 x 3M, Antoine Roussel 4 x 3.25M, both w/ limited NTCs

We don't have more, we have the same. Sedins out, Rousel and Beagle in. You are seriously putting the Sedins and their 100 points in the same breath as these players?

forums.hfboards.com

Same shtick. Arguing about being positive and optimistic.

 

[andora]

maybe we need a good vibes only version of this thread for people who don't want to read any criticism of the management group

Lol

Criticism for signing the mikheyev contract before trading garland is fine

The bs about new mgmt group same junk along those lines is rediculous

 

[4Twenty]

Lol

Criticism for signing the mikheyev contract before trading garland is fine

The bs about new mgmt group same junk along those lines is rediculous

It really isn’t. Looks a lot like early Lindenning. Main difference is Benning inherited a better defence corps…and a better cap situation.

 

[andora]

It really isn’t. Looks a lot like early Lindenning. Main difference is Benning inherited a better defence corps…and a better cap situation.

I guess..

The market can start shifting quite a bit here in the next two weeks

 

[VanillaCoke]

Weird how now its 10 months in and no plan plan still is the plan apparently, all the talk last year is like a fart in the wind.
Now with a fired diversity employee lawsuit/controversy and bringing back the same bad team with bad cap, bad ufa signings, bad D, has same bad preseason results with the same issues for yet another year sure feels like new mgmt is remarkably similar to old mgmt.

Maybe once we've past a year it wont just be blamed on fans being impatient, only been 8 years of stupid misery be patient whats a couple more years in the hamster wheel.

 

[vancityluongo]

chris gear on twitter really gives an insight into the previous group and how they think about things.





this line of thought is bonkers, even if he's no longer working in the canucks interest. the market is moving?? dude RNH signed last year and is a much better comp...

 

[VanillaCoke]

The more he speaks the more Chris gear sounds like a perfect sidekick for dumb and dumber

 

[Icebreakers]

Chris Gear is an idiot lol.

Its not all just about numbers. Its about situations as well. Barzal on the Islanders isnt the same as if he played on the Canucks. He would rake it up playing in VAN.

 

[TruGr1t]

Gear isn't wrong saying that Horvat for anything under $7M AAV (or more accurately $50-$55M in total contract value) is probably not happening based on multiple comparables to this point. But that's not exactly insight or a particularly unpopular opinion. Multiple people have said Horvat's annual salary "starts with a '7'".

 

[rypper]

Chris Gear was seen as a/the smart one because Jim Benning is Jim Benning, John Weisbrod was a phantom, and he was a long term hold over in the organization. But man, the more he talks, the more he probably hurts his chances of getting another job in the league. Or not because a lot of people in hockey management think that way.

 

[MarkMM]

You think that, even with Miller's new contract, this MIGHT be a stealth tank year? Since they didn't/couldn't shore up our blueline?

One can only hope huh...

I can honestly see them being prepared with both outcomes; waiting to see if deep forwards and strong goaltending combined with outperformance from defence can make us competitive and build from there, hoping to fix the defence when opportunities come up, but if things fall apart then sell off assets at the deadline.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were true to their word that they expected this to take 2-3 years, but they're looking for opportunities to accelerate it if the right opportunity comes up.

 

[andora]

I can honestly see them being prepared with both outcomes; waiting to see if deep forwards and strong goaltending combined with outperformance from defence can make us competitive and build from there, hoping to fix the defence when opportunities come up, but if things fall apart then sell off assets at the deadline.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were true to their word that they expected this to take 2-3 years, but they're looking for opportunities to accelerate it if the right opportunity comes up.

Most realistic point of view in my opinion

2 year expectation however that doesnt absolve them from the detective work it takes to find potential moves to accelerate it

 

[credulous]

Chris Gear was seen as a/the smart one because Jim Benning is Jim Benning, John Weisbrod was a phantom, and he was a long term hold over in the organization. But man, the more he talks, the more he probably hurts his chances of getting another job in the league. Or not because a lot of people in hockey management think that way.

i find it hard to believe anyone smart and/or talented could suffer working under benning for long. brackett is the best example. as soon as he started seeing professional success he started agitating to get independence from benning and ultimately left over it

 

[MarkMM]

It really isn’t. Looks a lot like early Lindenning. Main difference is Benning inherited a better defence corps…and a better cap situation.

Benning year after year made blindly obvious bad decisions.

Boeser's re-signing was fair value, Miller's signing was fair value (even if you're not a fan of how this structures the team), Kuzmenko was a nice get, trading Hamonic was a nice move but then spending that pick on Dermott was curious but not attrocious, Mikheyev is an on-the-fence move...but none of these compare to Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel, Sutter, Gudbranson, Kassian, etc, etc type moves.

I'd like management to have been able to do more to address our issues but to say that this management is the same as last management is a stretch.

 

[rypper]

I wonder if given the choice what most people would choose to undo:

Hiring of Jim Benning.

Or

Aquilini buying the team over Galardi/Beedie (with or without Aquilini.)

 

[MarkMM]

Most realistic point of view in my opinion

2 year expectation however that doesnt absolve them from the detective work it takes to find potential moves to accelerate it

Definitely. Patience is needed, but not a blank cheque of faith. The reasonable ground is somewhere in the middle.

Short of that, the reality is that it might take time for the market to have the flexibility to see what our management team can do, at that point we can evaluate what their strategy and execution looks like.

If they start making obviously stupid moves with a short-term mentality THEN they've forfeited any trust.

Poor asset management, bad value calls, etc.

But this might take into next season where there's enough movement and opportunities for us to get a sample size to see how good Rutherford and Alvin are.

 

[racerjoe]

I wonder if given the choice what most people would choose to undo:

Hiring of Jim Benning.

Or

Aquilini buying the team over Galardi/Beedie (with or without Aquilini.)

Does this mean we would have hired Nill as our GM? Not sure I would really be happy in that timeline either.

 

[TruGr1t]

Short of that, the reality is that it might take time for the market to have the flexibility to see what our management team can do, at that point we can evaluate what their strategy and execution looks like.

If they start making obviously stupid moves with a short-term mentality THEN they've forfeited any trust.

Poor asset management, bad value calls, etc.

But this might take into next season where there's enough movement and opportunities for us to get a sample size to see how good Rutherford and Alvin are.

Stupid moves can also include effectively extending this flawed roster on term at market rates thereby capping your ability to make moves due to salary (say fixing the blue line for example), while also continuing to not address the abysmal farm system (and by extension your calibre of ELCs).

This regime is starting to have a “deer in the headlights” smell that’s concerning. If they refuse to make aggressive moves out of fear of being worse, you’re just delaying the inevitable.

Drance is not wrong when he says he potentially sees the most this roster being able to accomplish is a few playoff appearances before the rebuild, though. The system is really broken from Benning.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Stupid moves can also include effectively extending this flawed roster on term at market rates thereby capping your ability to make moves due to salary (say fixing the blue line for example), while also continuing to not address the abysmal farm system (and by extension your calibre of ELCs).

This regime is starting to have a “deer in the headlights” smell that’s concerning. If they refuse to make aggressive moves out of fear of being worse, you’re just delaying the inevitable.

Drance is not wrong when he says he potentially sees the most this roster being able to accomplish is a few playoff appearances before the rebuild, though. The system is really broken from Benning.

Sounds to me like Drance is talking out of his posterior..Walking,talking clickbait.. mechanism designed to get impatient fans frothing at the mouth.

 

[valkynax]

I can honestly see them being prepared with both outcomes; waiting to see if deep forwards and strong goaltending combined with outperformance from defence can make us competitive and build from there, hoping to fix the defence when opportunities come up, but if things fall apart then sell off assets at the deadline.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were true to their word that they expected this to take 2-3 years, but they're looking for opportunities to accelerate it if the right opportunity comes up.

We can only hope...sigh.

I get this gut feeling that this season is gonna be very rough...

 

[4Twenty]

There’s actually nothing wrong with what Gear said. He’s right.

Using Nuge lol….sub 15 goal nuge who plays with McDavid and Draisatl on a pp?
Miller and Pettersson are not McDavid. Not even Draisatl.

I’d have traded 6, 9, and 53 but there’s some major underrating happening.

 

[credulous]

'fair contract value' is such a misleading statement. there's zero good teams where all their players are on 'fair' contracts. you simply can't win by paying market prices for all your players. at some point you need to find value or you end up like the canucks, isles or the sharks: up against the cap and with major holes on the roster