Management Discussion | Pre-Season Approaching

[MS]

What am I forgetting outside of the Dermott and Hamonic deals?

Motte.

 

[I Hart Conor Garland]

Motte.

Merci beaucoup

 

[rypper]

I might be wrong, but wouldn't it be maybe giving Nonis more time?


I don't know about we... but definitely me...

Ah yeah you're right, I don't know why I put the 14/15 for Benning's hire and confused the date the Aquilini's bought the team. Things could have gone very differently.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The suggestion that Drance is appealing to impatient fans is so odd. He's doing the opposite.

Impatient fans believe that the Canucks can have serious on-ice success in the next couple of years if they make the right moves. Drance doesn't think they can do that, and if he's trying to appeal to certain fans, it's those who believe, as he does, that management needs to take a longer view.

Thats odd....I recall when Greens Canucks were swirling round the toilet bowl early last season, Drance was ranting/yelling on air that the roster needed to be immediately dismantled (sounds a bit impatient to me)...and that no other coach was going to make the slightest bit of difference to this roster.

He changes his opinions quicker than a fart in a windstorm.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Thats odd....I recall when Greens Canucks were swirling round the toilet bowl early last season, Drance was ranting/yelling on air that the roster needed to be immediately dismantled (sounds a bit impatient to me)...and that no other coach was going to make the slightest bit of difference to this roster.

He changes his opinions quicker than a fart in a windstorm.

He is weird like that.

When he is presented with new facts he changes his mind. Often even admitting to being wrong.

Why would anyone do that?

 

[4Twenty]

This team has a net pick surplus since the management change. But hyperbole away.

You like to describe things as “the worst ever” but you’re calling out hyperbole lol.

Montreal worst roster in cap era.

Boeser’s worst top 6 forward performance ever.


Down a 3rd up a 4th. Not surplus value.

 

[rypper]

Frank Seravalli put out 32 predictions, one for each team, for upcoming season. Suffice to say, he thinks the Canucks are going to have a great year.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Thats odd....I recall when Greens Canucks were swirling round the toilet bowl early last season, Drance was ranting/yelling on air that the roster needed to be immediately dismantled (sounds a bit impatient to me)...and that no other coach was going to make the slightest bit of difference to this roster.

He changes his opinions quicker than a fart in a windstorm.

I was onboard with a quick dismantling. Really thought chips like Miller, Boeser , Garland and Horvat would return decent hauls prior to last February. Also thought a guy like Myers could return a pick while players like Pearson and Dickinson could be dumped based on reputation. Build around Demko, Hughes and Pettersson.

Then the market changed and the league has now shifted towards overvaluing cost-controlled contracts (ie. Hagel/Lundkvist) while older guys in their 20's and early 30's on more expensive contracts or pending UFAs are perceived as negative assets (Patches). A guy like Boeser or Garland will no longer return futures. Instead, you may have to add to acquire futures or take on a cap dump back. Makes zero sense to trade them now, and it may have been worthwhile to just cut ties with Boeser for cap flexibility.

You are screwed now. Essentially doing a tear down for the sake of a tear down. In my mind, a rebuild now verses one occurring 4-5 years from now will still lead to nothingness until the late 2020's at the earliest. We have a barren prospect pool and no depth guys look to be major players in our plans.

You try and have fun with this core while slowly building up a prospect pool then can maybe consider a massive teardown in 4-5 years.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Frank Seravalli put out 32 predictions, one for each team, for upcoming season. Suffice to say, he thinks the Canucks are going to have a great year.

View attachment 590983

Frank Seravalli is quickly becoming a hack, which is unfortunate because he seemed like a trustworthy source. If he has been keeping tabs, he will have seen that we have barely started our "stars."

 

[Lindgren]

Thats odd....I recall when Greens Canucks were swirling round the toilet bowl early last season, Drance was ranting/yelling on air that the roster needed to be immediately dismantled (sounds a bit impatient to me)...and that no other coach was going to make the slightest bit of difference to this roster.

He changes his opinions quicker than a fart in a windstorm.

Sure, you could say that if someone says that management needs to take the long view, and they need to start doing that right now, that oddly shows a kind of impatience.

We could also say that someone who says that they want the team to try to win immediately, with this roster, and they keep saying it, over and over, despite one failure after another, shows a kind of patience.

 

[MS]

You like to describe things as “the worst ever” but you’re calling out hyperbole lol.

Montreal worst roster in cap era.

Boeser’s worst top 6 forward performance ever.


Down a 3rd up a 4th. Not surplus value.

I said that Montreal was a bottom-5 roster in the cap era, and the most obvious rebuild. They had the 5th worst points/game in the cap era last year and the only 4 teams worse (Detroit, Colorado, Buffalo x2) were in the middle of rebuilds. How is that a hyperbolic statement?

If you can find a player who played comparable minutes to Boeser with comparable linemates and produced fewer ES primary points/game, I'm all ears. I tried and couldn't do it.

We've traded away a 3rd (Dermott) and added a 3rd (Hamonic) and a 4th (Motte). Yes, surplus value.

 

[StreetHawk]

Frank Seravalli is quickly becoming a hack, which is unfortunate because he seemed like a trustworthy source. If he has been keeping tabs, he will have seen that we have barely started our "stars."

He was dropped by TSN so he has to try to remain in the news.

 

[MS]

Frank Seravalli is quickly becoming a hack, which is unfortunate because he seemed like a trustworthy source. If he has been keeping tabs, he will have seen that we have barely started our "stars."

Also Pettersson and Hughes have both been absolutely terrific in their limited action. And Kuzmenko.

JT Miller is the only star who has been meh.

 

[Nucker101]

I wonder if given the choice what most people would choose to undo:

Hiring of Jim Benning.

Or

Aquilini buying the team over Galardi/Beedie (with or without Aquilini.)

Galardi owning a Canadian team would’ve been hilarious. He’s made headlines multiple times with his comments on his team since buying the Stars. Imagine him calling out Pettersson/Hughes in this market when they were struggling, it would be a media field day.

Canucks need a patient owner who doesn’t say stupid shit. Neither Aqua or Galardi fit that description.

 

[credulous]

i don't think it's really debateable that boudreau has been treated like toilet paper stuck to the bottom of your shoe by the management team. it's basically unprecedented for a management team to tell their coach to put up or shut up before they'll talk extension when a coach is on an expiring contract like the canucks did this summer. the fact that there was doubt about whether boudreau would even opt in is alone concerning

i don't think boudreau is a bad coach -- he's obviously not -- but i think he has probably the shortest rope in the nhl right now. the only other coach that might be facing as much animosity from their front office as boudreau is lindy ruff

 

[Hit the post]

i don't think it's really debateable that boudreau has been treated like toilet paper stuck to the bottom of your shoe by the management team. it's basically unprecedented for a management team to tell their coach to put up or shut up before they'll talk extension when a coach is on an expiring contract like the canucks did this summer. the fact that there was doubt about whether boudreau would even opt in is alone concerning

i don't think boudreau is a bad coach -- he's obviously not -- but i think he has probably the shortest rope in the nhl right now. the only other coach that might be facing as much animosity from their front office as boudreau is lindy ruff

Compared to the two twerps (the only guys Jimbo could find in SEVEN YEARS) before him, Boudreau is freaking Toe Blake.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I was onboard with a quick dismantling. Really thought chips like Miller, Boeser , Garland and Horvat would return decent hauls prior to last February. Also thought a guy like Myers could return a pick while players like Pearson and Dickinson could be dumped based on reputation. Build around Demko, Hughes and Pettersson.

Then the market changed and the league has now shifted towards overvaluing cost-controlled contracts (ie. Hagel/Lundkvist) while older guys in their 20's and early 30's on more expensive contracts or pending UFAs are perceived as negative assets (Patches). A guy like Boeser or Garland will no longer return futures. Instead, you may have to add to acquire futures or take on a cap dump back. Makes zero sense to trade them now, and it may have been worthwhile to just cut ties with Boeser for cap flexibility.

You are screwed now. Essentially doing a tear down for the sake of a tear down. In my mind, a rebuild now verses one occurring 4-5 years from now will still lead to nothingness until the late 2020's at the earliest. We have a barren prospect pool and no depth guys look to be major players in our plans.

You try and have fun with this core while slowly building up a prospect pool then can maybe consider a massive teardown in 4-5 years.

Rutherford literally said, from the minute he got here, that there wasnt going to a rebuild..There was going to be a retool while we weathered out the storm with the inefficient contracts for the next few years.

In 4 years, core players ,Hughes will be 26,EP 27,Demko 30...Also, if we dont trade our top picks, the prospect pool will be productive again within 2 years..not to mention the salary cap increase..So why would there be a massive teardown...?.Why are they screwed....How do you come up with this..?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Frank Seravalli put out 32 predictions, one for each team, for upcoming season. Suffice to say, he thinks the Canucks are going to have a great year.

View attachment 590983

Thats a peculiar comment...Pettersson looked great last game..and Hughes and Demko look as advertised..The Russians look energized..JT Miller looks like he's going through the motions a bit..Reading into the first week of the pre season results seems a bit dubious..IMO.

McDavid and Draisaitl looked like they were playing at about 20% in the last game against the Canucks..Does that mean the Oilers are going to get off to a slow start?

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Rutherford literally said, from the minute he got here, that there wasnt going to a rebuild..There was going to be a retool while we weathered out the storm with the inefficient contracts for the next few years.

In 4 years, core players ,Hughes will be 26,EP 27,Demko 30...Also, if we dont trade our top picks, the prospect pool will be productive again within 2 years..not to mention the salary cap increase..So why would there be a massive teardown...?.Why are they screwed....How do you come up with this..?

Hughes and Demko will be going into a new contract.
EP will likely be making 11 mil or more.

That's all good and whatnot but here's the other issue.

JT Miller and OEL will likely be taking up 15mil on the cap. What they do with Bo will be crucial here. You cannot afford to add another potential anchor in that timeframe.

4 years may seem like a lot of time to draft superstars but you are essentially hedging your bets on hitting homeruns every draft from here on out without relying on a top 10 pick.

 

[Hit the post]

Hughes and Demko will be going into a new contract.
EP will likely be making 11 mil or more.

That's all good and whatnot but here's the other issue.

JT Miller and OEL will likely be taking up 15mil on the cap. What they do with Bo will be crucial here. You cannot afford to add another potential anchor in that timeframe.

4 years may seem like a lot of time to draft superstars but you are essentially hedging your bets on hitting homeruns every draft from here on out without relying on a top 10 pick.

Have no fear as this drafting guru is still on the Canucks payroll!

 

[4Twenty]

I said that Montreal was a bottom-5 roster in the cap era, and the most obvious rebuild. They had the 5th worst points/game in the cap era last year and the only 4 teams worse (Detroit, Colorado, Buffalo x2) were in the middle of rebuilds. How is that a hyperbolic statement?

If you can find a player who played comparable minutes to Boeser with comparable linemates and produced fewer ES primary points/game, I'm all ears. I tried and couldn't do it.

We've traded away a 3rd (Dermott) and added a 3rd (Hamonic) and a 4th (Motte). Yes, surplus value.

What?

They traded away the received 3rd. And ended up with a 4th.


Surplus value? What the hell.

 

[MS]

What?

They traded away the received 3rd. And ended up with a 4th.


Surplus value? What the hell.

They've traded a 3rd and acquired a 3rd and a 4th. They have a pick surplus since they arrived. I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Hughes and Demko will be going into a new contract.
EP will likely be making 11 mil or more.

That's all good and whatnot but here's the other issue.

JT Miller and OEL will likely be taking up 15mil on the cap. What they do with Bo will be crucial here. You cannot afford to add another potential anchor in that timeframe.

4 years may seem like a lot of time to draft superstars but you are essentially hedging your bets on hitting homeruns every draft from here on out without relying on a top 10 pick.

OEL's contract will be expired in 4 years (not only that, his contract is buy out friendly in his final year)...The jury is out on EP being a $11M player ?...Having to pay star players is a lot more palatable than not having any star players come out of your system (see LAK).

The days of consecutively picking in the top 10 of the draft are over..I'm not expecting them to hit superstars..They just have to consistently draft NHL caliber players..that build solid depth, and give the roster salary cap relief.

We will most likely see a player or two from the Canucks 2022 draft get in the main squad in two years.

 

[4Twenty]

They've traded a 3rd and acquired a 3rd and a 4th. They have a pick surplus since they arrived. I'm not sure what you're arguing here.

If I trade something for a 12 pack of beer then trade that 12 pack of beer. I no longer have a 12 pack of beer. That I got an 8 pack of beer in another transaction doesn’t make me further ahead.

That’s it in layman’s terms.

 

[Vector]

If I trade something for a 12 pack of beer then trade that 12 pack of beer. I no longer have a 12 pack of beer. That I got an 8 pack of beer in another transaction doesn’t make me further ahead.

That’s it in layman’s terms.

If you have 7 draft picks, trade for 2, then trade one away, you have 8 drafts picks. 8 is greater than 7.