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No, you actually don't. How does Championship Hockey League measure how good a scorer someone will be when transferring to the NHL? Ignore the numbers if you want, but there is sound logic behind them. In my case I'm gonna side with the guy who has no clear biases towards any league over a person who is clearly a massive homer towards Laine and Tappara.
Numerical fact is that statisticial analysis of insufficient sample sizes is unreliable. I tend to lean towards Desjardin's numbers. At least he had more than six datapoints to look at, recent or not.
And what is with the leaving out lock-out season translatability factors?
Gsus
MVP
Someone said that Laine is on another level comparing to Matthews. That's not the case for sure I can tell you that. Laine may be the best player available but is still behind Matthews on most of the listings the GM's have. It's not that Laine isn't as good as Matthews but AM is a center and they tend to have more value on GM's perspective.
I don't personally care that much if Laine doesn't go first (likely at the moment still if not EDM 1st) because I'm just happy for this country for having such a special talent. Laine and Matthews may be close to a tie right now, but if that's the case teams will still pick the center. Ofc if it's Edmonton the edge can be with Laine. And few other teams who need a goal scorer badly.
Nice performance tonight from what I saw. 9 goals (14pts) in 16 playoff games is pretty special for a 17-18 year old guy.
I don't personally care that much if Laine doesn't go first (likely at the moment still if not EDM 1st) because I'm just happy for this country for having such a special talent. Laine and Matthews may be close to a tie right now, but if that's the case teams will still pick the center. Ofc if it's Edmonton the edge can be with Laine. And few other teams who need a goal scorer badly.
Nice performance tonight from what I saw. 9 goals (14pts) in 16 playoff games is pretty special for a 17-18 year old guy.
It uses 11 players as a sample size from FEL. It says things like SHL is 100% better than FEL. OHL being better than FEL, Russian 1 division being better than FEL. But in the otherside in CHL QF there has been 8 FEL teams, 7 SHL teams, 1 NLA teams.
If you still blindly believe in that data I really don't know what else to say to you.
Maybe please stop trolling?
Good Night! Lights Out!
Dejardins numbers were extremely out of date. Numbers prior to the KHL would drastically skew things, as the KHL started signing many players out of top leagues. My guess is the reasoning for leaving out the lockout years is that it dramatically skewed things and skewed the overall quality of leagues. For example what guys like Kane and Seguin did in the NLA was in line with what Matthews did, and I doubt anyone thinks Matthews could of been a ppg guy in the NHL this year, like Kane was when he returned.
If you think bringing up a discussion point is trolling, I don't know what to say. Most of my comments have been fairly balanced. You are the one who keeps on making extreme statements that even your fellow countryman see as extremely homerish of you. And I don't blindly believe the data, but I do think its relevant information, especially considering you consistently harp on the NLA saying it is way easier to score in, which is not proven. This makes no judgement on overall league quality and quality of teams, but it does try to figure out the value of scoring in each league.
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First off all Finnish idiots... im from Finland too and i think Laine is good but still wake up. Everyone hyped Granlund same way after one dreamy World Championships and great Gold with HIFK. How is had it ended again?? Same with freaking Armia, Teräväinen etc.. all over hyped. Really.
Laine is not yet played even one game in NHL. He is good prospect. He will never be like Gretzky, Lemieux, Crubaby. Macdavid kind of talent. There is only one of them in the freaking wolrd in 10 years so on. Reality is that he is good and sometimes even i say that he is like a god. Still there is talents like "next one"... Lindros who lost it. Still reality is if all gm.s have said that Macdavid is like talent like 99. You have to admit that he is like 99 and remember that Laine is great. Good talent like maybe Jagr, Selänne, Kane, Toews etc. But he is not Macdavid and that is nevergonnahappen.
Im huge Oilers fan and i love big prospects. But still there is alot Finnish idiots who are out of line with reality because of hype that is only happening here.
Laine is not yet played even one game in NHL. He is good prospect. He will never be like Gretzky, Lemieux, Crubaby. Macdavid kind of talent. There is only one of them in the freaking wolrd in 10 years so on. Reality is that he is good and sometimes even i say that he is like a god. Still there is talents like "next one"... Lindros who lost it. Still reality is if all gm.s have said that Macdavid is like talent like 99. You have to admit that he is like 99 and remember that Laine is great. Good talent like maybe Jagr, Selänne, Kane, Toews etc. But he is not Macdavid and that is nevergonnahappen.
Im huge Oilers fan and i love big prospects. But still there is alot Finnish idiots who are out of line with reality because of hype that is only happening here.
Anything that has NLA above Liiga, always immediately discard this utter ******** and find something that has actual real life importance.
You don't even need to follow the leagues to know this difference, you can easily derive it from Champions hockey league, if it wasn't already painfully obvious.
They are in no way comparable in level. NLA is seriously lower level than Liiga.
This is pointless with you, but
Average goals in NLA is ~1,5gpg higher than FEL. I think it should tell you that yes it is infact easier to score in NLA.
Add a fact that FEL is higher quality league. It is A LOT easier to score points in NLA.
44
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A quick look to player point totals from both leagues could probably tell you a lot. Not to mention the average quality of players in Finland is clearly higher (CHL).
But I guess some stats of random players from as long as 10 years ago is a better indicator
Periwinkle
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- Apr 3, 2014
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There is absolutely no comparison. Did you watch Granlund when he was playing? Have you watched Laine?
Granlund was of course hyped in media, but he wasn't anything better than say Teravainen a couple of years later. Young kid with lots of hype but he wasn't a world beater at 18. If you went by the hype, then I'm sorry for you. But nobody who knew hockey would think Granlund will rise to the absolute top in NHL (his frame alone doesn't allow it). Laine is on a very different level, Puljujarvi is way above Granny too.
I've watched Liiga hockey when Selanne and then Koivu were up and coming stars. They weren't this level at this age. The only one I can think of is Barkov, but he is a different type of player who should have went 1st overall.
Laine is the best player in the draft.
Just because a leagues scoring is more transferable to the NHL, does not make it a better league, there is some co-relations but it is not 100% true. It is purely making a judgement of what a point in each league is worth, how these teams do in inter-league competition is another story entirely. People are using the results and arguing something completely different. I'm not disputing the NLA is a worse league, but I am questioning those who constantly say Liiga is much tougher to score in and use it to belittle what Matthews has done in the NLA, without much fact behind it, using team results as a comparison.
Karlsson put up 34 points in 30 Liiga games in 2012-2013, Patrick Kane put up 23 points in 20 games, if NLA is as easy as some of you are trying to make it out to be, I'm pretty sure Kane's numbers would of made Karlsson's look like a joke. Look, I get it, Laine is one of the most exciting prospects you have ever had, but the constant bashing or diminishing of Matthews accomplishments to big up Laine is getting a bit ridiculous. Both are great players, I'd be happy to have either on my team, but at least try to give a somewhat balanced opinion.
44
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Karlsson had more points in the NHL during the previous season than Kane. And again sample size...
Kane also had a higher PPG that season in the NHL and has had a better PPG everyother season but that one. I'm not saying what Volman does is perfect or exact, but to continually bash Matthews due to league quality is over the top. No top Finnish player has gone from Liiga to the NHL and been a high end player quickly, neither has anyone from the NLA. This is slightly reflected in the numbers. Even guys like Granlund, Terravainen, Pulkinnen and Barkov etc who put up big numbers didn't have their scoring transfer over quickly.
Jussi
Registered User
I've watched Liiga hockey when Selanne and then Koivu were up and coming stars. They weren't this level at this age. The only one I can think of is Barkov, but he is a different type of player who should have went 1st overall.
Laine is the best player in the draft.[/QUOTE]
Selänne played only 11games 1989-90 before he got injured in Finland. You cant ever EVER compare hes talent with ANYONE here. Remember that he made 76 goals 56 assists 132 points at hes first year. If you think that Laine would make like Ovie 81 games 52 goals 54 assists 106 points at hes first season you have lost your mind.
Still Connor Macdavid made more than point per game and if he could have injury free season he might end up with 90 points. that is only like 10+- with Crosbys first season.
So the reality is that if laine makes 35 goals and 25 assist that is like grazy year of him with hes talent.
Laine is the best player in the draft.[/QUOTE]
Selänne played only 11games 1989-90 before he got injured in Finland. You cant ever EVER compare hes talent with ANYONE here. Remember that he made 76 goals 56 assists 132 points at hes first year. If you think that Laine would make like Ovie 81 games 52 goals 54 assists 106 points at hes first season you have lost your mind.
Still Connor Macdavid made more than point per game and if he could have injury free season he might end up with 90 points. that is only like 10+- with Crosbys first season.
So the reality is that if laine makes 35 goals and 25 assist that is like grazy year of him with hes talent.
Without looking up the datapoints one to one, I'd venture a guess that at the moment FEL is less likely to have high quality north american prospects in it (choosing FEL instead of AHL). This might be the reason for skewed stats. Or it's just off by statistical chance (chance by far greater in this sample size than in Desjardins' numbers).
What if we think that this sample size of 11 is now extremely out of date. Since it's only the same effect on sample size (reducing the sample size to 20% of it's original size) we only look at last three years. Looking at these more recent NHL prospects that would have made it as datapoints are Barkov and Ristolainen, who both would have been closer to the Desjardins' numbers than these new and improved numbers. And what happens when you add in this season? You get Joonas Donskoi with 0.56 personal translatability factor, which will up the national translatability factor by 0,05.
Plural
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- Mar 10, 2011
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Selänne played only 11games 1989-90 before he got injured in Finland. You cant ever EVER compare hes talent with ANYONE here. Remember that he made 76 goals 56 assists 132 points at hes first year. If you think that Laine would make like Ovie 81 games 52 goals 54 assists 106 points at hes first season you have lost your mind.
Still Connor Macdavid made more than point per game and if he could have injury free season he might end up with 90 points. that is only like 10+- with Crosbys first season.
So the reality is that if laine makes 35 goals and 25 assist that is like grazy year of him with hes talent.
Selänne was draft+4 and Ovechkin was draft+2(also late birthday). So of course Laine can't reach those numbers in his draft+1 year.
Something along that 60 points in a reasonable assumption if all goes well.
Selänne played only 11games 1989-90 before he got injured in Finland. You cant ever EVER compare hes talent with ANYONE here. Remember that he made 76 goals 56 assists 132 points at hes first year. If you think that Laine would make like Ovie 81 games 52 goals 54 assists 106 points at hes first season you have lost your mind.
[/QUOTE]
Yes and that was so different era. Still no one before him and after him haven't put that kind of numbers in his first season in NHL, not even close. Still, he was actually 22 years old in his rookie season so it's little different play rookie 18 years old.
HeavyHitter99
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44
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Well it's the truth. NLA is the inferior league. The Volman thing is completely useless in this situation (sample size, ancient stats..)
The fact that Laine is the best player on the ice in tougher games than Matthews has ever played in has to mean something.
World championships are going to be interesting when they're on the same stage again (Laine won round 1 in the WJCs)
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