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LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016 Draft) V

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93LEAFS said:
Matthews is at Laine's level, to say otherwise is absurd.
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No. To suggest that is not understanding the gap between Liiga and NLA.

Matthews has NEVER been in as high level of competition as Laine is playing (and dominating) today. Not even close.

You're comparing "NHL to AHL" here.
 
kunekune said:
My prediction is that McDavid and Laine the generational players of the next generation.

3rd might come during their playing time but next one probably comes in 10-15 years like you said.
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There's only a generational prospect every so often, people are throwing this term around way too loosely. Gretzky, Lemieux, Lindros, Crosby, and McDavid, that is the list of generational prospects. Ovi may border on it, but he wasn't viewed as such when drafted. Generational prospects don't get cut from their WJC team at 16, in favour of another 16 year old.
 
93LEAFS said:
I think Laine's an amazing prospect, and a top 2 lock, but to be put in the same sentence as McDavid I think he would have to blow away the competition. Look at who has come through the OHL in the last 20 years, and no one has come close to doing what McDavid did at 17, that is what defines generational to me. Other things like leading Canada in scoring at the U-18 WJC in his 15 year old season, and making the Canadian WJC team at 16.
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Every country/team has bias fans, it's just part of the game, and like I said I agreed with you on my post, I just disagreed with Barkov comparison.

But for this post it's hard to punish Laine for playing against men instead of OHL, he would be destroying the OHL if he was there and on a team like Knights.
Laine is doing something in the playoffs that hasn't been done before, he is carrying his team in the playoffs with just the best teams left, that's pretty impressive, more impressive than someone dominating OHL playoffs this year, he tied the scoring race with Matthews at 17y at U-20 tournament and was pretty close to being MVP with Pulju in on that tournament, scored some huge goals for Finland.
 
psycho_dad said:
No. To suggest that is not understanding the gap between Liiga and NLA.

Matthews has NEVER been in as high level of competition as Laine is playing (and dominating) today. Not even close.

You're comparing "NHL to AHL" here.
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No, I'm comparing analytical studies. A type of study more and more NHL teams have invested resources into. So, no, this isn't me not understanding the gap between the two, this is just looking at the data presented.

http://www.hockeyabstract.com/thoughts/updatedtranslationfactors
 
93LEAFS said:
There's only a generational prospect every so often, people are throwing this term around way too loosely. Gretzky, Lemieux, Lindros, Crosby, and McDavid, that is the list of generational prospects. Ovi may border on it, but he wasn't viewed as such when drafted. Generational prospects don't get cut from their WJC team at 16, in favour of another 16 year old.
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Like it has been mentioned knee injury destroyed his last season. He couldn't train in summer and was lacking with his movement. Laine is the most impressive junior player (9-15) there has ever been in Finland. That one bad year hurt his stocks a lot but he has shown to be back in the track.
 
BB88 said:
Every country/team has bias fans, it's just part of the game, and like I said I agreed with you on my post, I just disagreed with Barkov comparison.

But for this post it's hard to punish Laine for playing against men instead of OHL, he would be destroying the OHL if he was there and on a team like Knights.
Laine is doing something in the playoffs that hasn't been done before, he is carrying his team in the playoffs with just the best teams left, that's pretty impressive, more impressive than someone dominating OHL playoffs this year, he tied the scoring race with Matthews at 17y at U-20 tournament and was pretty close to being MVP with Pulju in on that tournament, scored some huge goals for Finland.
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I'm not punishing him, but I do look at it relative to other top prospects in the league, and while impressive, it is not like he is destroying the league in comparison with Barkov, Granlund, and Armia. Now, I think he's viewed as a better prospect, than the latter two, but I do think if the term generational is going to be thrown around the guy should be crushing the performance of recent picks.
 
Problem in this thread is that people are underestimating Matthews. I think he a better prospect than Eichel but not quite the level McDavid is. In my books Laine would be 1st overall 75 % of the drafts but not in this one.
 
kunekune said:
Laine is way better than he was on last October. If this good Laine would start the season again he would get 1,2-1,4 PPG.

His knee injury hindered his game a year ago but he is back on track to become the best player in the world.
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McDavid broke his hand mid year, his pace before that was actually higher than what he finished with.
 
I have seen like 30 complete Laine games, and 1 or 2 Matthews game. Highlights, of course yes, but complete games.

All matthews talk there is makes you think, how ****ing good he must be to be that clear choise? That is most definitely homerism of those who don't follow Laine. Or then he is definitely the most generational talent in this decade.

I know good players when I see them play. They're both good players, I just can't see this downplaying of Laine, why in the hell is that happening.
 
93LEAFS said:
I'm not punishing him, but I do look at it relative to other top prospects in the league, and while impressive, it is not like he is destroying the league in comparison with Barkov, Granlund, and Armia. Now, I think he's viewed as a better prospect, than the latter two, but I do think if the term generational is going to be thrown around the guy should be crushing the performance of recent picks.
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Actually he is destroying them right now, playoffs Laine is completely different than 1st regular season half Laine.
He's not generational, but I'd say he's a franchise changer prospect.

I realize this can't be the easiest thread to be right now with all the Laine love from Finnish posters.
 
agent082 said:
Have to agree. I thought before this season that Laine (or Puljujarvi) needs to have 1,2 to 1,4 PPG even to be first overall this year. To be at same level than McDavid it needed the best season in FEL ever.
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That is joke. Laine is best player in this draft and Matthews has only his center position been this depate anymore. Laine have had limited ice time and autumn he wasn't get that much pp time, also was injured some time so it takes some time after injury to play in full best what you got. His center this season is 4 line type of center who is more go to corners guy and not playmaker at all. If Laine have played with Kuusela and Lajunen (like today) in whole season with limitless ice time, he have PPG or more.

Sorry i read you ment Matthews. Still like i wrote he has been alone his line and carry Tappara himself sometimes and almost whole playoffs.
 
93LEAFS said:
I think Laine's an amazing prospect, and a top 2 lock, but to be put in the same sentence as McDavid I think he would have to blow away the competition.
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100% true. I think most people thinking Laine is a talent like McDavid are from Finland and haven't seen personally what McDavid did as a junior. They have seen that Laine is stellar and because of that it might be hard to see anyone being better than him.

I think Laine is an awesome talent. One of the best Finland has ever produced. That puts him in the same level with Kurri, Selänne and Barkov. But none of those players were generational talents like Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby...or McDavid. An Laine doesn't have to be generational to be destructive force in NHL and the Finnish national team.

Before this spring Matthews was far ahead of Laine as a prospect. Now the gap has narrowed. Rest of the spring will show which player gets drafted as the first overall and I don't have the answer. But what I do know is that it's gonna be hell of a draft this year.
 
kunekune said:
Laine is the most impressive junior player (9-15) there has ever been in Finland.
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Sorry to say but he isn't and you know it if you have followed finnish junior hockey. Don't try to seld some ******** to foreigners. He isn't even at top 10.
 
BB88 said:
Actually he is destroying them right now, playoffs Laine is completely different than 1st regular season half Laine.
He's not generational, but I'd say he's a franchise changer prospect.

I realize this can't be the easiest thread to be right now with all the Laine love from Finnish posters.
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Just a bit over the top, I personally will be ecstatic if Leafs get 1 or 2 in the draft. And what he's doing is amazing right now, its just getting a bit insane.
 
mirasane said:
100% true. I think most people thinking Laine is a talent like McDavid are from Finland and haven't seen personally what McDavid did as a junior. They have seen that Laine is stellar and because of that it might be hard to see anyone being better than him.

I think Laine is an awesome talent. One of the best Finland has ever produced. That puts him in the same level with Kurri, Selänne and Barkov. But none of those players were generational talents like Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby...or McDavid. An Laine doesn't have to be generational to be destructive force in NHL and the Finnish national team.

Before this spring Matthews was far ahead of Laine as a prospect. Now the gap has narrowed. Rest of the spring will show which player gets drafted as the first overall and I don't have the answer. But what I do know is that it's gonna be hell of a draft this year.
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If Matthews was as good as Lemieux, Gretzky talent level, he should've destroyed Swiss league more. He was playing 1st PP and 1st line all the time, too. I get that he is great but that sounds like bit too much definitely. Play style comparations by all means, but putting him in the same box with those legends already? Yeah it starts to be betting on roofing the ceiling more than evaluation.
 
mirasane said:
100% true. I think most people thinking Laine is a talent like McDavid are from Finland and haven't seen personally what McDavid did as a junior. They have seen that Laine is stellar and because of that it might be hard to see anyone being better than him.

I think Laine is an awesome talent. One of the best Finland has ever produced. That puts him in the same level with Kurri, Selänne and Barkov. But none of those players were generational talents like Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby...or McDavid. An Laine doesn't have to be generational to be destructive force in NHL and the Finnish national team.

Before this spring Matthews was far ahead of Laine as a prospect. Now the gap has narrowed. Rest of the spring will show which player gets drafted as the first overall and I don't have the answer. But what I do know is that it's gonna be hell of a draft this year.
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You are right that I haven't seen McDavid playing as a junior but I have played in a same team with Barkov and been on ice several times with Laine. I can tell you Laine is even on a another tier to Barkov.
 
Next Laine game is tomorrow for those that don't know by the way.

FEL finals game 5. 17:00 Finnish Time. Series is tied 2-2 between HIFK and Tappara.

After the recent line change and today's beastly performance it's easy to predict Laine is going to make more points tomorrow so everyone better tune in, especially if you are doubting Laine or thinking that Matthews is easily the #1 pick. You need to see this guy play.
 
I remember many NA people (or any who dont watch the games) calling Barkov already peaked in Liiga level. That was a huge miss, obviously, now he scores as well in the NHL as he did in Liiga back then. It's easier to undervalue prospects that you don't see play.

Matthwes might turn out to be better, what's going wrong though is being so sure.
 
QnebO said:
If Matthews was as good as Lemieux, Gretzky talent level, he should've destroyed Swiss league more. He was playing 1st PP and 1st line all the time, too. I get that he is great but that sounds like bit too much definitely. Play style comparations by all means, but putting him in the same box with those legends already? Yeah it starts to be betting on roofing the ceiling more than evaluation.
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He wasn't comparing Matthews to those elite guys, he was talking about McDavid. Matthews is in the Toews, Kopitar, and Bergeron mould with better goal scoring instincts. Matthews track record at international events, combined with breaking practically every USNDP record is beyond impressive. He put up better number's at the USNDP level than Kane and Eichel, who both went on to destroy the OHL and NCAA. There is very little to draw from the Swiss league numbers, but they are still extremely impressive. Especially when put into context of league equivalences.
 
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