LW Lawson Crouse - Kingston Frontenacs, OHL (2015 Draft)

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5 points in the last two games.

Ironically enough I didn't think he looked particularly good last night against Sarnia, despite the 3-point game. But apparently a player is only judged on his point totals on here, so I guess I'm wrong about how he played and he was, in fact, spectacular. :sarcasm:
 
Ironically enough I didn't think he looked particularly good last night against Sarnia, despite the 3-point game. But apparently a player is only judged on his point totals on here, so I guess I'm wrong about how he played and he was, in fact, spectacular. :sarcasm:

Putting up points is all that matters in terms of prospects. ;)
 
It seems we all agree that he is indeed a project but will be a very good value around 12-15th. He's going to need at least 1 more season in junior, but I suspect he might end up as Ryan Malone clone. 20-25 goals, can hit and drop the gloves, plus he'll likely be sound defensively as well. AKA second line potential.
 
Wouldn't mind if the canucks grabbed him in the mid teens, how it's looking like they will slip out of the playoffs. Anotther big winger who works hard on a consistent basis.
 
I just hope the Leafs arent baited into taking a risk on this guy

Why would that be... I watched him again yesterday and he was the best player on the ice. People just automatically think he isn't skilled or can't score when that is the farthest thing from the truth.
 
Why would that be... I watched him again yesterday and he was the best player on the ice. People just automatically think he isn't skilled or can't score when that is the farthest thing from the truth.

I think people are going to be in for a shock when they see him play with some actual talent on his line. Sam Bennett's due back in around 2 weeks (according to rumor), so for the first time this season Crouse might actually have a decent playmaking center on his line.
 
I think people are going to be in for a shock when they see him play with some actual talent on his line. Sam Bennett's due back in around 2 weeks (according to rumor), so for the first time this season Crouse might actually have a decent playmaking center on his line.

well hfboards.com will determine how good a prospect is based on stats. Unless he starts racking it up, which I am expecting he will, then he will gain the respect of hfboards.com members, although it's useless, his draft ranking by css, ISS, tsn has more credibility then the clowns here who again will probably quickly googled his name, and click on hockeydb, and make a judgement from there.
 
well hfboards.com will determine how good a prospect is based on stats. Unless he starts racking it up, which I am expecting he will, then he will gain the respect of hfboards.com members, although it's useless, his draft ranking by css, ISS, tsn has more credibility then the clowns here who again will probably quickly googled his name, and click on hockeydb, and make a judgement from there.

Knowing HF, I could actually see it as a no-win situation for Crouse. Because even if he does start tearing it up on the scoreboard with Bennett, his naysayers will then use the "so he can only produce with an elite talent?" logic. Of course that ignores the entire point that, surprise surprise, star players produce better when surrounded by talent. And unless your name is McDavid, star players won't produce at 2 points per game if your linemates are 3rd liners at best.

I think Crouse is destined to be HF's 2015 draft whipping boy, regardless of what he does the rest of the year. It's only going to change when he's 21 or 22 years old and is making the kind of impact in the NHL that I think he's capable of before you start to see a shift to "man, I wish my team had a player like him".
 
well hfboards.com will determine how good a prospect is based on stats. Unless he starts racking it up, which I am expecting he will, then he will gain the respect of hfboards.com members, although it's useless, his draft ranking by css, ISS, tsn has more credibility then the clowns here who again will probably quickly googled his name, and click on hockeydb, and make a judgement from there.

The reason he is ranked lower here by many is because of his poor hockey IQ. And not just offensive IQ. I find his defensive game to be lacking as well. He works hard but does not make a great first pass and loses more puck battles than he should. In general, I find his decision making skills to be subpar in all three zones, especially in comparison to guys like Strome, Marner, Merkley, Barzal, Konecny, etc. I take all of those guys ahead of Crouse, as well as Hanifin, Provorov, Werenski.

He is big, tough, athletic, and has a great work ethic. But that's where it ends for him IMO. Will be a solid NHL'er, but not a guy you pick in the top 10, and certainly not the top 5. I am expecting him to end up somewhere between 8 and 20. I'd be willing to bet that if his name were Crousov he'd ranked around 25-30.
 
I think people are going to be in for a shock when they see him play with some actual talent on his line. Sam Bennett's due back in around 2 weeks (according to rumor), so for the first time this season Crouse might actually have a decent playmaking center on his line.

I've heard that rumour aswell. It's better for everyone if Sam is playing again! Kingston could be scary in the playoffs.
 
Knowing HF, I could actually see it as a no-win situation for Crouse. Because even if he does start tearing it up on the scoreboard with Bennett, his naysayers will then use the "so he can only produce with an elite talent?" logic. Of course that ignores the entire point that, surprise surprise, star players produce better when surrounded by talent. And unless your name is McDavid, star players won't produce at 2 points per game if your linemates are 3rd liners at best.

I think Crouse is destined to be HF's 2015 draft whipping boy, regardless of what he does the rest of the year. It's only going to change when he's 21 or 22 years old and is making the kind of impact in the NHL that I think he's capable of before you start to see a shift to "man, I wish my team had a player like him".

6 goals 6 assists in 11 games since coming back from WJC. I trust the scouts on this one, most scouts would have seen each player live at least 5 times before making a judgement.

I've heard that rumour aswell. It's better for everyone if Sam is playing again! Kingston could be scary in the playoffs.

I think in the OHL the class is still Eerie, Oshawa, London and SSM.
 
The reason he is ranked lower here by many is because of his poor hockey IQ. And not just offensive IQ. I find his defensive game to be lacking as well. He works hard but does not make a great first pass and loses more puck battles than he should. In general, I find his decision making skills to be subpar in all three zones, especially in comparison to guys like Strome, Marner, Merkley, Barzal, Konecny, etc. I take all of those guys ahead of Crouse, as well as Hanifin, Provorov, Werenski.

He is big, tough, athletic, and has a great work ethic. But that's where it ends for him IMO. Will be a solid NHL'er, but not a guy you pick in the top 10, and certainly not the top 5. I am expecting him to end up somewhere between 8 and 20. I'd be willing to bet that if his name were Crousov he'd ranked around 25-30.

I think the bolded is where the disconnect comes in. Only on HF do I hear about him having poor hockey IQ. Scouts seem to always talk about his good hockey IQ, and from my own viewings (close to 100 games of his over the past two seasons) I've always though his hockey sense is one of his strengths. No, he's not McDavid when it comes to hockey sense. But other than on here, it's never seen as a weakness in his game.
 
The reason he is ranked lower here by many is because of his poor hockey IQ. And not just offensive IQ. I find his defensive game to be lacking as well. He works hard but does not make a great first pass and loses more puck battles than he should. In general, I find his decision making skills to be subpar in all three zones, especially in comparison to guys like Strome, Marner, Merkley, Barzal, Konecny, etc. I take all of those guys ahead of Crouse, as well as Hanifin, Provorov, Werenski.

He is big, tough, athletic, and has a great work ethic. But that's where it ends for him IMO. Will be a solid NHL'er, but not a guy you pick in the top 10, and certainly not the top 5. I am expecting him to end up somewhere between 8 and 20. I'd be willing to bet that if his name were Crousov he'd ranked around 25-30.
"Teammate of the above-mentioned Travis Konecny during their Minor Midget days, Lawson Crouse is an intelligent and robust winger with an astute two-way dedication. His ability to play a number of roles is extremely beneficial and whether he’s starring on the penalty kill or driving the net with a purpose on the powerplay, Crouse is a true competitor that won’t stop until his mission is complete. Extremely attentive to detail, his ability to position himself and shield off checkers with his rangy size allows him to dominate in possession. Add in an effective battery of shots that can be unleashed from afar or in tight crease traffic with great success and you have a power forward that will eat up minutes. Book it, Lawson Crouse will be the breakout player from this year’s draft eligible OHL crop."

http://www.mckeenshockey.com/prospects-blog/youngblood-ohl-sends-strong-2015-nhl-draft-crop-top-10/

Lawson is a 'big' man who can impose himself on opponents and make it extremely difficult for them. He is a strong skater with a good burst of speed and if he has the slightest step on a defender, it is an almost impossible task to regain position vs. him. Good puck skills and is a smart player with and without the puck. Developing into the type of player that can be a force at the NHL level.

http://www.tsn.ca/teen-titans-mcdavid-eichel-top-mckenzie-s-draft-ranking-1.83478

It's not only you but some people just don't understand that a 6'4 PWF like Crouse doesn't grow on trees. He skates well, he's big, he's strong, he shoots the puck well, he's smart, he's mature, he's a good passer, he sees the ice well. What he won't do is blow past defenders or go around the whole defence and then deke the goalie out of his jock then score but then again which power forward in the NHL does? Oh yeah that's right, none.

He's the type of guy you need to do the dirty work then bang a goal in, put him infront of the net on the PP because he can tip shots and screen a goalie. Put him beside Marner and Strome so he can pick up the loose pucks, be physical and be a very hard player to contain. Put him with skilled players and he along with his line will thrive because of the dirty work Crouse can do and along with getting to the net but he can also play that sniper role to find a soft spot in the offensive zone then score.
 
Hockey IQ is being thrown around a lot in this thread by people who have different definitions of it.

Crouse had a high hockey IQ; what he lacks is offensive creativity and vision.
 
Probably true. Case in point:



I believe there's a large degree of mutual exclusivity between the two sides of this statement. But that's just me.

I think they are different concepts. I think you can include the latter in the overall definition of the former, but I see them as different tools. Marc-Edouard Vlasic is one of the smartest defensemen in the game, but his offensive creativity is in the negatives. I see Crouse as a similar case.
 
6 goals 6 assists in 11 games since coming back from WJC. I trust the scouts on this one, most scouts would have seen each player live at least 5 times before making a judgement.



I think in the OHL the class is still Eerie, Oshawa, London and SSM.

While I agree, don't be shocked to see Guelph play better than London down the stretch Fabbri coming back. In the East Kingston might do some damage though, it's just Oshawa and NorthBay IMO.
 
I think they are different concepts. I think you can include the latter in the overall definition of the former, but I see them as different tools. Marc-Edouard Vlasic is one of the smartest defensemen in the game, but his offensive creativity is in the negatives. I see Crouse as a similar case.

Well, defensemen are obviously treated differently, but being systematically conservative isn't necessarily evidence of high hockey IQ as much as good coaching. I mean, it can be "smart" not to play a style that's beyond your means, but typically the guys with "real" high hockey IQ exhibit the ability to make the pace and direction of play conform to what they want to execute with their decision-making (more so than just physical ability) - not just capitalize on opportunities generated by a "system" or "plugging".

Think someone like Lidstrom instead of Vlasic, for example, when focusing on defensemen, or the difference between how Markov drives the play compared to someone like Subban. Subban, at his best, drives the puck up the ice with physical ability and determination, while Markov, at his best, prefers to assess options and distribute the puck more often instead.
 
Well, defensemen are obviously treated differently, but being systematically conservative isn't necessarily evidence of high hockey IQ as much as good coaching. I mean, it can be "smart" not to play a style that's beyond your means, but typically the guys with "real" high hockey IQ exhibit the ability to make the pace and direction of play conform to what they want to execute with their decision-making (more so than just physical ability) - not just capitalize on opportunities generated by a "system" or "plugging".

Think someone like Lidstrom instead of Vlasic, for example, when focusing on defensemen, or the difference between how Markov drives the play compared to someone like Subban. Subban, at his best, drives the puck up the ice with physical ability and determination, while Markov, at his best, prefers to assess options and distribute the puck more often instead.

It's obvious that we just have different definitions. I'm mot interested in arguing semantics, especially if you're going to ignore my example. Vlasic is one of the most effective D in the game due to his hockey IQ. He thinks the game at an elite level, he knows how the play will develop before it does, he makes simple yet perfect plays, and can dictate the pace of the game. And yet, he has no semblance of offensive creativity. I think Crouse is the same sort, except being a forward his offensive creativity matters a lot more than a defenseman's, particularly when you're talking about a top-10 draft pick.

That's all. Just my opinion. If you wanna argue that Vlasic doesn't have "real" hockey IQ, go for it. If you wanna argue he's a product of the system, go for it.
 
When a guy is 6'4 do you except him to be creative? Like come on, Lucic is 6'3, Simmonds, Getzlaf, Perry, the PWFs in the league aren't creative with the puck and make dangles, they just play a straight forward dominant game like Crouse.
 
If you wanna argue that Vlasic doesn't have "real" hockey IQ, go for it. If you wanna argue he's a product of the system, go for it.

I'd rather argue that there's only so much "hockey IQ" you can exhibit in 1 zone, going in 1 direction, compared to other players who exhibit the same "level of intelligence" going in both directions and in all zones on the ice. It's relative, not binary.
 
Landeskog endured a lot of the same criticism during his draft year.

He strikes me as the type of player, that will himself to be better.

Really hope the Sens are able to land him.
 
I'd rather argue that there's only so much "hockey IQ" you can exhibit in 1 zone, going in 1 direction, compared to other players who exhibit the same "level of intelligence" going in both directions and in all zones on the ice. It's relative, not binary.

Okay, but here's the thing: Vlasic does show hockey IQ in the offensive zone. He makes lots of smart little plays that make a big difference, whether it's a good keep in or a set-up pass or a shot-pass or a purposeful rebound off the end boards to his teammate. They smart plays and they're functional, but they aren't particularly creative and Vlasic will never put up big point totals because he lacks that x-factor. As someone said, Crouse would be the ideal complimentary linemate to an elite scoring duo like Voracek and Giroux.

Take, for example, Melker Karlsson. Who? Exactly. 24 year old kid who came out of nowhere and is now sitting pretty on the Sharks top line with Joe Thornton and Joe Pavelski. He's not particularly talented and he won't stand out on his own, but he compliments them perfectly. He plays a smart effective game. He forechecks, he recovers the puck, he gets back on defense, he can participate in a strong cycle, and he can get shots on net. He doesn't need the puck to be effective, but his presence on the Thornton-Pavelski line is insanely important. The Sharks tried Hertl there, Nieto, Goodrow, everyone and their mother. But no one really fit until Karlsson, due to his well-rounded game, anticipation, puck management, the fact that he's an absolute puck-hound, and yes, his hockey IQ. Karlsson is a very smart player who gets to where he's needed and helps the play in all three zones. Creative? Not particularly. Effective? Absolutely.

That's the kind of player I see Crouse becoming. Either an elite third liner, or the perfect compliment to an elite scoring duo. Smart, quick, well-rounded. But you don't take that sort of player with a top-10 pick; Melker Karlsson was signed as an undrafted UFA out of Sweden at age 23.

Landeskog endured a lot of the same criticism during his draft year.

He strikes me as the type of player, that will himself to be better.

Really hope the Sens are able to land him.

I think there is a real off-chance of Crouse being a Landeskog type. They are similar players stylistically and you're right about there being a lot of the same criticisms. However, I would not take the chance that he will become a Landeskog. I wouldn't have taken the chance that Landeskog would become Landeskog. I think Crouse's ultimate upside is Landeskog, but I think there is only a small chance of him hitting it.
 
All the supporters are like don't look at the stats. I'm not. Based on my viewings he'll be a good player with a lot of tools. He just doesn't have that creativity or vision you look for in a top pick. And no I am not basing this off stats.
 

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