LW Lawson Crouse - Kingston Frontenacs, OHL (2015 Draft)

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

You think Crouse will be a King, Gaustad, Bickell, Boyle, Tangradi even though Crouse already has a better shot than both of them, he also skates better than them but I guess that's why scouts have jobs and you're just thinking you are better than them.

Where did I say that? I mentioned the names of players who fit your description.

The point was that Gaudreau was sheltered while Monahan's line play shutdown and Gaudreau's line becomes the scoring line by being put in the best position to score which is true, then your pathetic argument was "Gaudreau is not sheltered" with nothing to back it up. Kind of like this argument, you have nothing to back it up and whatever you think of Crouse is pointless.

Your point was baseless, given the fact that you thought Hudler played with Glencross and Monahan. You tried to discredit the NCAA, using the fact that Gaudreau tore it up as evidence to its inferiority. I pointed out that he's been excellent in the NHL, and you said he's "sheltered".

Is Sidney Crosby sheltered because he plays on Pittsburgh's scoring line?

 

[tigervixxxen]

I don't get what the drama is all about. If he sucks so bad your team won't take him. I hope that's the case then the Avs can take him and laugh all the way to the bank.

 

[Get North]

Where did I say that? I mentioned the names of players who fit your description.



Your point was baseless, given the fact that you thought Hudler played with Glencross and Monahan. You tried to discredit the NCAA, using the fact that Gaudreau tore it up as evidence to its inferiority. I pointed out that he's been excellent in the NHL, and you said he's "sheltered".

Is Sidney Crosby sheltered because he plays on Pittsburgh's scoring line?

That's what you're implying because after you say "scouts have been wrong before."

Yeah he is sheltered. Just like most superstars in the NHL, especially at home, you want your scorers to be in the best possibly position to score most of the time, some coaches go heavy on heavy with their top guys against the other teams' top guys. Calgary has a shutdown line, then they have Gaudreau's line who get easy minutes to score.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That's what you're implying because after you say "scouts have been wrong before."

I've already said I project him to be a solid NHLer a poor mans Landeskog.

Yeah he is sheltered. Just like most superstars in the NHL, especially at home, you want your scorers to be in the best possibly position to score most of the time, some coaches go heavy on heavy with their top guys against the other teams' top guys. Calgary has a shutdown line, then they have Gaudreau's line who get easy minutes to score.

Then what was your point of bringing up Gaudreau as a point to discredit the NCAA if he is, as you say, like most NHL superstars.

 

[bruinsfan46]

Are there any similar players to Crouse?

I'm not looking for playing style - I'm wondering what other NHL players had minimal junior production, were a top ~15 pick, then went on to put up good numbers in the NHL.

Blake Wheeler. Similar size, Wheeler played high school his draft year and a lot of people think the Coyotes took him way too early. Wheeler only had 47 points in 58 games his first post draft year playing in the USHL.

 

[Get North]

I've already said I project him to be a solid NHLer a poor mans Landeskog.



Then what was your point of bringing up Gaudreau as a point to discredit the NCAA if he is, as you say, like most NHL superstars.

What is a poor mans Landeskog? A 3rd/4th liner? No one knows what Landeskog even is yet, he's 22.

Well everyone is impressed with Gaudreau and his season in the NCAA when Strome or Jenner didn't even get any attention but they're just as good as Gaudreau is in the NHL today. These low-key CHL players are just as good as the top-notch NCAA guys.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

What is a poor mans Landeskog? A 3rd/4th liner? No one knows what Landeskog even is yet, he's 22.

Well everyone is impressed with Gaudreau and his season in the NCAA when Strome or Jenner didn't even get any attention but they're just as good as Gaudreau is in the NHL today. These low-key CHL players are just as good as the top-notch NCAA guys.

I'm confused as how Strome a 5th overall pick is low key compared to Gaudreau a 4th rounder. Also how the hell is Jenner's 41pts in 92 career games as impressive as 38pts in 50 games? Now you can easily argue that Strome and Gaudreau are equally impressive this season. I'll stop as I've derailed this thread enough

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

What is a poor mans Landeskog? A 3rd/4th liner? No one knows what Landeskog even is yet, he's 22.

Well everyone is impressed with Gaudreau and his season in the NCAA when Strome or Jenner didn't even get any attention but they're just as good as Gaudreau is in the NHL today. These low-key CHL players are just as good as the top-notch NCAA guys.

How is Strome a low key CHL player? He was drafted like 5th overall. And no, he's not as good as Gaudreau. Neither is Jenner. Not that you would know that as you've obviously never even seen Calgary play (lol Hudler and Glencross on the same line).

Anyways, a poor man's Landeskog to me is a 2nd/3rd line tweener who can play special teams. Should be good for 20g 20a most seasons while playing physical hockey and dropping the gloves when needed.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Blake Wheeler. Similar size, Wheeler played high school his draft year and a lot of people think the Coyotes took him way too early. Wheeler only had 47 points in 58 games his first post draft year playing in the USHL.

wheelers team was terrible though... or am i wrong?

 

[Get North]

I'm confused as how Strome a 5th overall pick is low key compared to Gaudreau a 4th rounder. Also how the hell is Jenner's 41pts in 92 career games as impressive as 38pts in 50 games? Now you can easily argue that Strome and Gaudreau are equally impressive this season. I'll stop as I've derailed this thread enough

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=831156&page=34

1 thread, Gaudreau has like 4? Jenner this season has been great, 12 points in 20 games unfortunately he is injured but Jenner isn't just a scorer either. He's two-way gritty player with some skill and he brings more to the table than Gaudreau.

How is Strome a low key CHL player? He was drafted like 5th overall. And no, he's not as good as Gaudreau. Neither is Jenner. Not that you would know that as you've obviously never even seen Calgary play (lol Hudler and Glencross on the same line).

Anyways, a poor man's Landeskog to me is a 2nd/3rd line tweener who can play special teams. Should be good for 20g 20a most seasons while playing physical hockey and dropping the gloves when needed.

1 page for Strome, 4 for Gaudreau. The hype was unreal for Gaudreau in college, Strome nowadays and even after he was drafted was barely talked about.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=831156&page=34

1 thread, Gaudreau has like 4? Jenner this season has been great, 12 points in 20 games unfortunately he is injured but Jenner isn't just a scorer either. He's two-way gritty player with some skill and he brings more to the table than Gaudreau.

1 page for Strome, 4 for Gaudreau. The hype was unreal for Gaudreau in college, Strome nowadays and even after he was drafted was barely talked about.

The reason there was so much discussion about Gaudreau was because he was polarizing because of his size. Everyone knew Strome was a good prospect, there was nothing to discuss.

Again, maybe you should watch Gaudreau play before you talk about him. Its painfully obvious that you haven't.

 

[sniper81]

The reason there was so much discussion about Gaudreau was because he was polarizing because of his size. Everyone knew Strome was a good prospect, there was nothing to discuss.

Again, maybe you should watch Gaudreau play before you talk about him. Its painfully obvious that you haven't.

It's also painfully obvious that you don't have a good grasp on Crouse's potential.

 

[Old Navy Goat]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=831156&page=34

1 thread, Gaudreau has like 4? Jenner this season has been great, 12 points in 20 games unfortunately he is injured but Jenner isn't just a scorer either. He's two-way gritty player with some skill and he brings more to the table than Gaudreau.

1 page for Strome, 4 for Gaudreau. The hype was unreal for Gaudreau in college, Strome nowadays and even after he was drafted was barely talked about.

Now you've really gone off the deep end talking about thread length in regards to how over-rated / under-rated prospects are. Lots more Calgary posters on here than Islander posters so that might have a tad to do with it.

 

[Passchendaele]

Ryan Johansen comes to mind. He was drafted 5th overall with very minimal production.

Not a top 15 pick but ryan gezlaf was also below point per game production .

The thing with Johansen, though, is that he made MASSIVE strides from age 16 to 17.

Going from a 17-point season in the BCHL to being the 2nd best scorer on a WHL team is downright amazing.

 

[Get North]

The reason there was so much discussion about Gaudreau was because he was polarizing because of his size. Everyone knew Strome was a good prospect, there was nothing to discuss.

Again, maybe you should watch Gaudreau play before you talk about him. Its painfully obvious that you haven't.

Whatever you say buddy.

Get back to watching Crouse and somehow believing he has poor hockey IQ.

 

[sabrebuild]

Whatever you say buddy.

Get back to watching Crouse and somehow believing he has poor hockey IQ.

Say what you want about his other tools, but no player in junior with his physical tool set should have such low production if you think he is going to be an offensive force in the NHL. Now if you think he will be a gritty two way player great. If you think he will be a good power forward, great. But those players should not be taken super early. I have watched him, I like his general game, but nothing but his size and skating scream NHL player to me. He could turn out great, but the bust factor with him is probably higher than any other prospect commonly listed in the top ten.

 

[Get North]

Say what you want about his other tools, but no player in junior with his physical tool set should have such low production if you think he is going to be an offensive force in the NHL. Now if you think he will be a gritty two way player great. If you think he will be a good power forward, great. But those players should not be taken super early. I have watched him, I like his general game, but nothing but his size and skating scream NHL player to me. He could turn out great, but the bust factor with him is probably higher than any other prospect commonly listed in the top ten.

His shot doesn't scream NHL player? He has all the tools to be a top 6 PWF easily. I really don't get it when people say power forwards shouldn't get taken that high, I'd take Crouse in the top 7 easily and you can't get power forwards, quality power forwards like Simmonds, Brown, Lucic, Wheeler, Ladd, etc through trades or free agency. They are worth almost as much as a scorer who scores 60-70 points because they bring 40-50 points along with dirty work, physical play and intimidation.

Crouse has 3 really good tools to be a good NHL player, he has a good shot, good skating (for his size) and he has size. He's also a smart player out there, responsible and physical. He isn't flashy but not alot of power forwards are flashy.

 

[sabrebuild]

His shot doesn't scream NHL player? He has all the tools to be a top 6 PWF easily. I really don't get it when people say power forwards shouldn't get taken that high, I'd take Crouse in the top 7 easily and you can't get power forwards, quality power forwards like Simmonds, Brown, Lucic, Wheeler, Ladd, etc through trades or free agency. They are worth almost as much as a scorer who scores 60-70 points because they bring 40-50 points along with dirty work, physical play and intimidation.

Crouse has 3 really good tools to be a good NHL player, he has a good shot, good skating (for his size) and he has size. He's also a smart player out there, responsible and physical. He isn't flashy but not alot of power forwards are flashy.

None of those guys were taken in the top ten, let alone the top 7? Honestly I don't think its a huge deal if he gets taken 7-10. Lots of guys are in the mix there, and while I would prefer other options to each their own. But if we are talking about top 5, namely ahead of Strome, Marner or Hanifin your out of your mind. And taking a guy in the top 5 because you project him to be a 40-50 pt guy who plays a power forward role is a terrible use of high pick.

As to his shot, ya he shoots it hard enough to get the NHL shot label. Big whoop, half the OHL has an NHL shot, power wise, with today's sticks. Considering his size and skating ability, plus that NHL shot he should have a lot more goals and points for him to get into the top 5 discussion. When someone has all the tools and is physically developed in Junior, having a weak team should not limit their scoring as drastically as Crouse. You know another player who would fit the description of Crouse, except perhaps consistent effort, Zach Kassian. He put up better points in his draft year than Crouse, but count that as a better team I suppose. Big guy, offensive skills, sick shot, good skater for his size. Top 5 guys need to project better than top six power forward, particularly when better guys are definitely available.

Sorry for wasting your time if you are just saying he should be picked in the 7-12 range, but the Crouse hype for a top 5 pick is driving me crazy.

 

[Get North]

None of those guys were taken in the top ten, let alone the top 7? Honestly I don't think its a huge deal if he gets taken 7-10. Lots of guys are in the mix there, and while I would prefer other options to each their own. But if we are talking about top 5, namely ahead of Strome, Marner or Hanifin your out of your mind. And taking a guy in the top 5 because you project him to be a 40-50 pt guy who plays a power forward role is a terrible use of high pick.

As to his shot, ya he shoots it hard enough to get the NHL shot label. Big whoop, half the OHL has an NHL shot, power wise, with today's sticks. Considering his size and skating ability, plus that NHL shot he should have a lot more goals and points for him to get into the top 5 discussion. When someone has all the tools and is physically developed in Junior, having a weak team should not limit their scoring as drastically as Crouse. You know another player who would fit the description of Crouse, except perhaps consistent effort, Zach Kassian. He put up better points in his draft year than Crouse, but count that as a better team I suppose. Big guy, offensive skills, sick shot, good skater for his size. Top 5 guys need to project better than top six power forward, particularly when better guys are definitely available.

Sorry for wasting your time if you are just saying he should be picked in the 7-12 range, but the Crouse hype for a top 5 pick is driving me crazy.

Their draft position is irrelevant. I'm sure they'll more late steals doesn't mean anything. It isn't a terrible use of a pick to get a power forward, they are probably 6-7 true power forwards in the NHL, it's a big deal but then again he won't put up big points and again power forwards are underrated. Power forwards are just as valuable as a 5'11 70 point player without a doubt, tell me when was the last time a true powerforward was traded.

One thing you'll find with other power forwards in junior compared to Crouse is that consistency, Crouse is consistent others weren't. Crouse doesn't put up points, keep stat scouting. He's creating chances and always an effective player out there physically and creating chances by breaking up passes, being physical.

#1 defencemen are traded more often than power forwards, 1st line scorers are traded more often. We've never been in the league but players like Crouse are as valuable as it gets other than Crosby in the NHL.

I think it's between him and Strome for #5, I would assume Strome is the better pick but Crouse IMO is a good pick in the top 6-7.

Let's see how he does, Bennett should be back soon and Crouse right now isn't playing with a player like that and hasn't played with a player that good yet.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Their draft position is irrelevant. I'm sure they'll more late steals doesn't mean anything. It isn't a terrible use of a pick to get a power forward, they are probably 6-7 true power forwards in the NHL, it's a big deal but then again he won't put up big points and again power forwards are underrated. Power forwards are just as valuable as a 5'11 70 point player without a doubt, tell me when was the last time a true powerforward was traded.

One thing you'll find with other power forwards in junior compared to Crouse is that consistency, Crouse is consistent others weren't. Crouse doesn't put up points, keep stat scouting. He's creating chances and always an effective player out there physically and creating chances by breaking up passes, being physical.

#1 defencemen are traded more often than power forwards, 1st line scorers are traded more often. We've never been in the league but players like Crouse are as valuable as it gets other than Crosby in the NHL.

I think it's between him and Strome for #5, I would assume Strome is the better pick but Crouse IMO is a good pick in the top 6-7.

Let's see how he does, Bennett should be back soon and Crouse right now isn't playing with a player like that and hasn't played with a player that good yet.

Of the guys you've mentioned, Ladd, Simmonds, and Wheeler have been traded like 5 times between the 3 of them lol.

Rick Nash? JVR? Nick Foligno? Bobby Ryan? Jordan Staal? Chris Stewart? Bryan Boyle? These guys get traded plenty often.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Their draft position is irrelevant. I'm sure they'll more late steals doesn't mean anything. It isn't a terrible use of a pick to get a power forward, they are probably 6-7 true power forwards in the NHL, it's a big deal but then again he won't put up big points and again power forwards are underrated. Power forwards are just as valuable as a 5'11 70 point player without a doubt, tell me when was the last time a true powerforward was traded.

One thing you'll find with other power forwards in junior compared to Crouse is that consistency, Crouse is consistent others weren't. Crouse doesn't put up points, keep stat scouting. He's creating chances and always an effective player out there physically and creating chances by breaking up passes, being physical.

#1 defencemen are traded more often than power forwards, 1st line scorers are traded more often. We've never been in the league but players like Crouse are as valuable as it gets other than Crosby in the NHL.

I think it's between him and Strome for #5, I would assume Strome is the better pick but Crouse IMO is a good pick in the top 6-7.

Let's see how he does, Bennett should be back soon and Crouse right now isn't playing with a player like that and hasn't played with a player that good yet.

What you describe in terms of consistency also describes the OHL careers of Malhotra and Paille. It's also one of the reasons Crouse made the WJC squad, because he does work hard consistently, have a big frame and a decent scoring touch. No question, his coach will always love the guy. Just like the coaches of Paille and Malhotra always loved them.

It doesn't make him a NHL power forward per se, though. Could happen, but he has a long way to go in terms of offensive IQ and applying it. Comparisons to Chris Stewart, Wayne Simmonds, and Zack Kassian are all in the ballpark.

The same way every team would love to have Simmonds on their team, they'd love to have Crouse too. But it doesn't mean you automatically pass on a more talented and higher impact forward or d-man. A worthy debate though, to be sure.

 

[sniper81]

What you describe in terms of consistency also describes the OHL careers of Malhotra and Paille. It's also one of the reasons Crouse made the WJC squad, because he does work hard consistently, have a big frame and a decent scoring touch. No question, his coach will always love the guy. Just like the coaches of Paille and Malhotra always loved them.

It doesn't make him a NHL power forward per se, though. Could happen, but he has a long way to go in terms of offensive IQ and applying it. Comparisons to Chris Stewart, Wayne Simmonds, and Zack Kassian are all in the ballpark.

The same way every team would love to have Simmonds on their team, they'd love to have Crouse too. But it doesn't mean you automatically pass on a more talented and higher impact forward or d-man. A worthy debate though, to be sure.

Crouse is very talented though, he has very soft hands and good vision, everyone is just looking at his numbers and it's embarrassing. I would take the opinion of multiple, multiple scouting services and my own views over people on this thread who have only watched him on a live stream. Next year when he gets 90 points will everyone praise him or find another way to put him down? This is not directed at you at all, more in general.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Anyways, a poor man's Landeskog to me is a 2nd/3rd line tweener who can play special teams. Should be good for 20g 20a most seasons while playing physical hockey and dropping the gloves when needed.

That doesn't describe Landeskog at all, even the poor man's part.

So those that are obsessed with production, how do you explain Crouse's 6G 6A in 11 games since returning from World Juniors?

 

[sniper81]

That doesn't describe Landeskog at all, even the poor man's part.

So those that are obsessed with production, how do you explain Crouse's 6G 6A in 11 games since returning from World Juniors?

it must be a fluke because of his size, man against boys etc.. No matter what he does, he will not get credit from the average fan and thats fine.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Crouse is very talented though, he has very soft hands and good vision, everyone is just looking at his numbers and it's embarrassing. I would take the opinion of multiple, multiple scouting services and my own views over people on this thread who have only watched him on a live stream. Next year when he gets 90 points will everyone praise him or find another way to put him down? This is not directed at you at all, more in general.

People keep inferring scouting services see him as unanimous top 5 selection, when most see him in the 7-15 range. Which I think most fans arguing against Crouse in some way, also see him as ranked.

Unless someone sees Crouse in the top 4 or outside the top 15, we're all pretty much agreeing he is some where in that third tier. And that would be behind Strome and perhaps Marner, but ahead of the 4th tier with the likes of Sprong, Harkins, Roy, Carlo and a dozen other later 1st round candidates.

And no, I don't think Crouse will hit 90 points next year, but that doesn't mean he won't be an NHL top 6 forward either. Like a lot of wingers of his ilk, he will always be a guy whose point totals have more to do with his center, than his own abilities. I see him still hovering around, and likely just above, a point per game next year. But if an elite center emerges or is traded for in Kingston, those numbers could obviously go higher.