LW Lawson Crouse - Kingston Frontenacs, OHL (2015 Draft)

[Ringing Iron]

I think the bolded is where the disconnect comes in. Only on HF do I hear about him having poor hockey IQ. Scouts seem to always talk about his good hockey IQ, and from my own viewings (close to 100 games of his over the past two seasons) I've always though his hockey sense is one of his strengths. No, he's not McDavid when it comes to hockey sense. But other than on here, it's never seen as a weakness in his game.

Correct. People who say he lacks hockey IQ, vision and/or creativity aren't watching him play. It's as simple as that.

Hockey IQ is being thrown around a lot in this thread by people who have different definitions of it.

Crouse had a high hockey IQ; what he lacks is offensive creativity and vision.

Nope, sorry, you're wrong. He creates all of the time and has some of the better vision I've seen out of a big winger in quite sometime.

 

[Russ Tyler]

Are there any similar players to Crouse?

I'm not looking for playing style - I'm wondering what other NHL players had minimal junior production, were a top ~15 pick, then went on to put up good numbers in the NHL.

 

[Ringing Iron]

Are there any similar players to Crouse?

I'm not looking for playing style - I'm wondering what other NHL players had minimal junior production, were a top ~15 pick, then went on to put up good numbers in the NHL.

Aside from the Top 15 pick part, James Neal comes to mind

 

[NikF]

Correct. People who say he lacks hockey IQ, vision and/or creativity aren't watching him play. It's as simple as that.




Nope, sorry, you're wrong. He creates all of the time and has some of the better vision I've seen out of a big winger in quite sometime.

He creates all the time by having superb decision-making. There's a difference between selecting the right play and seeing plays others don't see, the latter is vision. In this draft alone both Zacha and Rantanen are two big wingers who display superior vision to Crouse. But Crouse's decision making is better than both.

 

[Ringing Iron]

He creates all the time by having superb decision-making. There's a difference between selecting the right play and seeing plays others don't see, the latter is vision. In this draft alone both Zacha and Rantanen are two big wingers who display superior vision to Crouse. But Crouse's decision making is better than both.

Regardless, call it what you want, his "decision making" is good and people attempting to knock it is flat out wrong. It's a strength of his, not a weakness.

 

[NikF]

Regardless, call it what you want, his "decision making" is good and people attempting to knock it is flat out wrong. It's a strength of his, not a weakness.

I agree, his hockey IQ is high. Them semantics.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

"Teammate of the above-mentioned Travis Konecny during their Minor Midget days, Lawson Crouse is an intelligent and robust winger with an astute two-way dedication. His ability to play a number of roles is extremely beneficial and whether he’s starring on the penalty kill or driving the net with a purpose on the powerplay, Crouse is a true competitor that won’t stop until his mission is complete. Extremely attentive to detail, his ability to position himself and shield off checkers with his rangy size allows him to dominate in possession. Add in an effective battery of shots that can be unleashed from afar or in tight crease traffic with great success and you have a power forward that will eat up minutes. Book it, Lawson Crouse will be the breakout player from this year’s draft eligible OHL crop."

http://www.mckeenshockey.com/prospects-blog/youngblood-ohl-sends-strong-2015-nhl-draft-crop-top-10/

Lawson is a 'big' man who can impose himself on opponents and make it extremely difficult for them. He is a strong skater with a good burst of speed and if he has the slightest step on a defender, it is an almost impossible task to regain position vs. him. Good puck skills and is a smart player with and without the puck. Developing into the type of player that can be a force at the NHL level.

http://www.tsn.ca/teen-titans-mcdavid-eichel-top-mckenzie-s-draft-ranking-1.83478

It's not only you but some people just don't understand that a 6'4 PWF like Crouse doesn't grow on trees. He skates well, he's big, he's strong, he shoots the puck well, he's smart, he's mature, he's a good passer, he sees the ice well. What he won't do is blow past defenders or go around the whole defence and then deke the goalie out of his jock then score but then again which power forward in the NHL does? Oh yeah that's right, none.

He's the type of guy you need to do the dirty work then bang a goal in, put him infront of the net on the PP because he can tip shots and screen a goalie. Put him beside Marner and Strome so he can pick up the loose pucks, be physical and be a very hard player to contain. Put him with skilled players and he along with his line will thrive because of the dirty work Crouse can do and along with getting to the net but he can also play that sniper role to find a soft spot in the offensive zone then score.

Sounds a lot like Dwight King, Paul Gaustad, Bryan Bickell, Bryan Boyle, Eric Tangradi . . . scouts have been wrong before and will be wrong again . . .don't know why their word is seen as gospel on here.

When a guy is 6'4 do you except him to be creative? Like come on, Lucic is 6'3, Simmonds, Getzlaf, Perry, the PWFs in the league aren't creative with the puck and make dangles, they just play a straight forward dominant game like Crouse.

Getzlaf and Perry have shown a ton of offensive creativity throughout their careers, is that a serious question? Lucic and Simmonds as well (though not as much).

Landeskog endured a lot of the same criticism during his draft year.

He strikes me as the type of player, that will himself to be better.

Really hope the Sens are able to land him.

I think a poorman's Landeskog is a decent comparable, though again Crouse's IQ is not on the same level.

But consider that if Landeskog were in this draft, he wouldn't crack the top 5, probably not even top 10. Which is why I don't like Crouse so high.

 

[sniper81]

All the supporters are like don't look at the stats. I'm not. Based on my viewings he'll be a good player with a lot of tools. He just doesn't have that creativity or vision you look for in a top pick. And no I am not basing this off stats.

He does have the vision and creativity, maybe you don't see what a lot of top end scouts see? Maybe that's why they are paid to do what they do? I just don't understand what there isn't to like about this player going forward.

 

[Get North]

Sounds a lot like Dwight King, Paul Gaustad, Bryan Bickell, Bryan Boyle, Eric Tangradi . . . scouts have been wrong before and will be wrong again . . .don't know why their word is seen as gospel on here.



Getzlaf and Perry have shown a ton of offensive creativity throughout their careers, is that a serious question? Lucic and Simmonds as well (though not as much).



I think a poorman's Landeskog is a decent comparable, though again Crouse's IQ is not on the same level.

But consider that if Landeskog were in this draft, he wouldn't crack the top 5, probably not even top 10. Which is why I don't like Crouse so high.

Yeah I guess that's what it sounds like when you don't watch him play. Their word is better than yours, I hope people who read this thread don't take your posts seriously because you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

They are great players but they aren't danglers by any means and Crouse is just like that. He can make a couple nice dekes but he's not a flashy player with outstanding explosive speed like Marner or Strome same with Getzlaf to Crosby or Malkin. Crouse pulled a sweet toe-drag goal at the World Juniors.

Alright whatever bud, you're the one who thinks Crouse has poor hockey IQ but won't admit you're wrong again. You've never seen him play other than the World Juniors and that's pretty clear.

 

[Wintersun]

Yeah I guess that's what it sounds like when you don't watch him play. Their word is better than yours, I hope people who read this thread don't take your posts seriously because you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

They are great players but they aren't danglers by any means and Crouse is just like that. He can make a couple nice dekes but he's not a flashy player with outstanding explosive speed like Marner or Strome same with Getzlaf to Crosby or Malkin. Crouse pulled a sweet toe-drag goal at the World Juniors.

Alright whatever bud, you're the one who thinks Crouse has poor hockey IQ but won't admit you're wrong again. You've never seen him play other than the World Juniors and that's pretty clear.

Can't wait to see Strome's explosive speed.

 

[Get North]

Can't wait to see Strome's explosive speed.

Haha, wow my bad. I was thinking of top OHL players after McDavid and just went with Marner and Strome not even thinking about their speed.

 

[Team_Spirit]

 

[lawrence]

Are there any similar players to Crouse?

I'm not looking for playing style - I'm wondering what other NHL players had minimal junior production, were a top ~15 pick, then went on to put up good numbers in the NHL.

Ryan Johansen comes to mind. He was drafted 5th overall with very minimal production.

Not a top 15 pick but ryan gezlaf was also below point per game production .

 

[lawrence]

The reason he is ranked lower here by many is because of his poor hockey IQ. And not just offensive IQ. I find his defensive game to be lacking as well. He works hard but does not make a great first pass and loses more puck battles than he should. In general, I find his decision making skills to be subpar in all three zones, especially in comparison to guys like Strome, Marner, Merkley, Barzal, Konecny, etc. I take all of those guys ahead of Crouse, as well as Hanifin, Provorov, Werenski.

He is big, tough, athletic, and has a great work ethic. But that's where it ends for him IMO. Will be a solid NHL'er, but not a guy you pick in the top 10, and certainly not the top 5. I am expecting him to end up somewhere between 8 and 20. I'd be willing to bet that if his name were Crousov he'd ranked around 25-30.

Your the 1st guy that mentioned anything of lack of iq........ It's quite epic sometimes some of the members will go out of the way to make something up. You already pulled that stunt when you said mcdavid was easily knocked off the puck, when infact he's a beast with the puck. I don't know were the hell you pulling this crap out of. Anyone who picks up crouse will be a happy team.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It's just puzzling how people on here are throwing around the "low hockey IQ" thing when not a single person who watches him closely (scouts, fans who go to games, fans who watch a lot online/tv) agrees with that assessment.

I know people throw out the "scouts' word isn't gospel, you know" thing, but the thing is I've not seen even one scout mention his lack of hockey IQ. Not one. Even if you don't necessarily want to take scouting reports as gospel because they've been erroneous in the past, you'd still think that at least ONE scout would question his hockey IQ. If it's that blatantly obvious a weakness, at least ONE scouting service would comment on it.

Low hockey IQ is one of those things you can tell about a player after watching them a few times. It's sort of like being able to see a player is a weak skater. It sort of sticks out like a sore thumb. Yet, no scout or scouting service has noticed something like that?

 

[buttman*]

He does have the vision and creativity, maybe you don't see what a lot of top end scouts see? Maybe that's why they are paid to do what they do? I just don't understand what there isn't to like about this player going forward.

I do not see those soft feathery passes coming off his stick.

Scouts have been wrong before. As a matter of fact they have been wrong a LOT.

Still puzzles me why people seem to take defending this kid personally. He has about 7 assists and didn't display any creativity in the WJC.

Hopefully I am wrong but that's my opinion of him based on my viewings.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Saying Crouse has low hockey sense would be like calling Gaudreau a power forward

 

[buttman*]

It's just puzzling how people on here are throwing around the "low hockey IQ" thing when not a single person who watches him closely (scouts, fans who go to games, fans who watch a lot online/tv) agrees with that assessment.

I know people throw out the "scouts' word isn't gospel, you know" thing, but the thing is I've not seen even one scout mention his lack of hockey IQ. Not one. Even if you don't necessarily want to take scouting reports as gospel because they've been erroneous in the past, you'd still think that at least ONE scout would question his hockey IQ. If it's that blatantly obvious a weakness, at least ONE scouting service would comment on it.

Low hockey IQ is one of those things you can tell about a player after watching them a few times. It's sort of like being able to see a player is a weak skater. It sort of sticks out like a sore thumb. Yet, no scout or scouting service has noticed something like that?

I've watched him "closely". Don't think he has a low IQ but he does not possess elite vision or playmaking ability. Two things I believe are paramount in the NHL game.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I've watched him "closely". Don't think he has a low IQ but he does not possess elite vision or playmaking ability. Two things I believe are paramount in the NHL game.

Neither does James Neal. Neither does Nino Niederreiter. Neither does Andrew Ladd. Neither does Milan Lucic. Neither did guys like Keith Tkachuk or Bill Guerin back in the day. Would you not take any of those guys in the top 10 (if you had hindsight and could tell what they'd become as players, obviously)?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Yeah I guess that's what it sounds like when you don't watch him play. Their word is better than yours, I hope people who read this thread don't take your posts seriously because you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

They are great players but they aren't danglers by any means and Crouse is just like that. He can make a couple nice dekes but he's not a flashy player with outstanding explosive speed like Marner or Strome same with Getzlaf to Crosby or Malkin. Crouse pulled a sweet toe-drag goal at the World Juniors.

Alright whatever bud, you're the one who thinks Crouse has poor hockey IQ but won't admit you're wrong again. You've never seen him play other than the World Juniors and that's pretty clear.

I've seen him play 5-6 games in the OHL + the WJCs + top prospects game. That's more than most (and probably you too). And compared to other top prospects in this draft, he has low hockey IQ. I don't need the opinion of scouts to validate my own.

The fact that you think Strome is a speedster tells me all I need to know about how much OHL hockey you watch. You're embarrassing yourself again, just like when you thought that Jiri Hudler was playing with Monahan and Glencross all season.

You should start, you know, watching the games.

 

[lawrence]

I've seen him play 5-6 games in the OHL + the WJCs + top prospects game. That's more than most (and probably you too). And compared to other top prospects in this draft, he has low hockey IQ. I don't need the opinion of scouts to validate my own.

The fact that you think Strome is a speedster tells me all I need to know about how much OHL hockey you watch. You're embarrassing yourself again, just like when you thought that Jiri Hudler was playing with Monahan and Glencross all season.

You should start, you know, watching the games.

I'm just curious how are you catching OHL games. and why the hell are you watching OHL games out of curiosity, why would you chose to watch the OHL over the NHL. I'm just curious how are some of you American fans picking up on the OHL.

regards.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Your the 1st guy that mentioned anything of lack of iq........ It's quite epic sometimes some of the members will go out of the way to make something up. You already pulled that stunt when you said mcdavid was easily knocked off the puck, when infact he's a beast with the puck. I don't know were the hell you pulling this crap out of. Anyone who picks up crouse will be a happy team.

What am I making up? McDavid was easily knocked off the puck on multiple occasions in the WJCs, and still gets pushed around a bit in the OHL. He's still strong on the puck, but will struggle holding off guys at the next level until he matures more.

In this case, I have not been impressed with Crouse's decision making on several occasions. He's got a simple approach to the game, but he doesn't see the ice all that well relative to other top prospects. 20 years ago, he'd be a top 5 pick. Today, he is a top 20 pick.

I don't know why people are so offended by this evaluation. Its where he sat before the WJCs if I recall. Then all the scouting agencies decided that if TC thought he was good enough, he must be a top 5 pick. Anyone else noticing this group think?

In any case, I agree with your last sentence. This kid will be a good NHLer.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I'm just curious how are you catching OHL games. and why the hell are you watching OHL games out of curiosity, why would you chose to watch the OHL over the NHL. I'm just curious how are some of you American fans picking up on the OHL.

regards.

OHL livestream. And I prefer junior hockey over NHL.

 

[sniper81]

I do not see those soft feathery passes coming off his stick.

Scouts have been wrong before. As a matter of fact they have been wrong a LOT.

Still puzzles me why people seem to take defending this kid personally. He has about 7 assists and didn't display any creativity in the WJC.

Hopefully I am wrong but that's my opinion of him based on my viewings.

I've seen him play about 40 times, that's why I'm defending him. I would take my viewings and multiple scouts viewings over yours. You seemed to be spot on with your Mcdavid assessments aswell so maybe I'm wrong..

 

[Get North]

I've seen him play 5-6 games in the OHL + the WJCs + top prospects game. That's more than most (and probably you too). And compared to other top prospects in this draft, he has low hockey IQ. I don't need the opinion of scouts to validate my own.

The fact that you think Strome is a speedster tells me all I need to know about how much OHL hockey you watch. You're embarrassing yourself again, just like when you thought that Jiri Hudler was playing with Monahan and Glencross all season.

You should start, you know, watching the games.

You think Crouse will be a King, Gaustad, Bickell, Boyle, Tangradi even though Crouse already has a better shot than both of them, he also skates better than them but I guess that's why scouts have jobs and you're just thinking you are better than them.

The point was that Gaudreau was sheltered while Monahan's line play shutdown and Gaudreau's line becomes the scoring line by being put in the best position to score which is true, then your pathetic argument was "Gaudreau is not sheltered" with nothing to back it up. Kind of like this argument, you have nothing to back it up and whatever you think of Crouse is pointless.