LW Juraj Slafkovsky (2022, 1st, MTL) Part 3

[Andrei79]

When your example is a guy drafted in 1997 and we’re in the year 2022… you might not have a point.


Go through the list of 1st overall picks and yes it’s extremely rare.

Power doesn’t count because HE chose not to play because he never got the college experience because of Covid. He would have absolutely been on the opening night roster and based on his 8 game sample at the end of the year would have made a decent impact as a top 4D.

It doesn’t mean Slaf is a bust but it’s far from a good sign if he’s not ready. Especially when he has the body of a 30 year old.

You must be pretty worried about the 2022 draft as a whole then.

 

[Dan Patrick]

Feel kind of bad for Habs fans. If they had lost the lottery and got Slaf 2nd overall likely no one would bat an eye or care this much. He's a perfectly good 18 year old top prospect but because he went 1st overall everyone has to compare him to other guys taken 1st and if he doesn't set the world on fire he's a certified bust.

 

[nbwingsfan]

We might as well end the thread right here. Beautiful post.

To everyone else: we've established @nbwingsfan is trolling at this point, so please ignore.

Except his list does more harm than good to his argument. If you want to start going all the way back to the Thornton draft then the list of players who did make impacts right away just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

It’s just a fact that the VAST majority of 1st overall picks make some kind of impact right away. That’s something you’ll have to accept.

You must be pretty worried about the 2022 draft as a whole then.

Nope. Later picks aren’t expected to make an immediate impact.

1st overall man childs are.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Except his list does more harm than good to his argument. If you want to start going all the way back to the Thornton draft then the list of players who did make impacts right away just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

It’s just a fact that the VAST majority of 1st overall picks make some kind of impact right away. That’s something you’ll have to accept.


Nope. Later picks aren’t expected to make an immediate impact.

1st overall man childs are.

Sure, 1st overall picks over history have often made an immediate impact.

But that's not a pre-requisite for a 1st overall pick or an indicator of the final impact a 1st overall pick will have when its all said or done.

Slaf hasn't even played one regular season game yet and you are already labeling him as a disappointment. Why?

 

[Canadienna]

Feel kind of bad for Habs fans. If they had lost the lottery and got Slaf 2nd overall likely no one would bat an eye or care this much. He's a perfectly good 18 year old top prospect but because he went 1st overall everyone has to compare him to other guys taken 1st and if he doesn't set the world on fire he's a certified bust.

Honestly I think a lot of us Habs fans realize this.

We were warned pre draft that there's no bonafide slam dunk 1OA pick. Slaf is one nice piece in a rebuild that will take many.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Gotta love when people cherry-pick one sentence like this. Missed the mark all around.

You specifically named Dahlin as one of the players who “took years to develop”, which is ridiculous. That isn’t cherry picking. The rest of your post doesn’t change your claim there.

 

[JohnLennon]

You specifically named Dahlin as one of the players who “took years to develop”, which is ridiculous. That isn’t cherry picking. The rest of your post doesn’t change your claim there.

No, I specifically said "reached their draft pedigree" which, for Dahlin, was a generational defenseman. I hardly think 44 points is "generational" and the following two years also weren't that "generational". If you read the post like you claim you did, it was in comparison to the likes of McDavid, Matthews who had star impact out of the gate. Dahlin and Hischier had fantastic rookie seasons, but not in the context of the post, and especially not the general conversation. It is absolutely cherry-picking.

I'm prepared to be wrong on Dahlin specifically because still had a pretty historic rookie season, but due to the reasons above, you pretty clearly missed the general point of the post.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Sure, 1st overall picks over history have often made an immediate impact.

But that's not a pre-requisite for a 1st overall pick or an indicator of the final impact a 1st overall pick will have when its all said or done.

Slaf hasn't even played one regular season game yet and you are already labeling him as a disappointment. Why?

I’ve said if he doesn’t make an impact it’s a disappointment. That’s all.

No idea if he will or not, but Habs fans saying it’s no big deal if he doesn’t are just lying to themselves. It’s definitely not a good sign.

 

[Xirik]

You specifically named Dahlin as one of the players who “took years to develop”, which is ridiculous. That isn’t cherry picking. The rest of your post doesn’t change your claim there.

I think its because people expected him to be "Cale Makar" before Cale Makar was himself.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

I’ve said if he doesn’t make an impact it’s a disappointment. That’s all.

No idea if he will or not, but Habs fans saying it’s no big deal if he doesn’t are just lying to themselves. It’s definitely not a good sign.

Disappointing to you maybe. But to knowledgeable fans, Slaf was drafted for what he will do 4 years from now and not what he will do in pre-season in 2022. LOL

I suppose you consider Lafreniere a bonafide bust and Yakupov a success because he made somewhat of an impact in his first year?

 

[JohnLennon]

Feel kind of bad for Habs fans. If they had lost the lottery and got Slaf 2nd overall likely no one would bat an eye or care this much. He's a perfectly good 18 year old top prospect but because he went 1st overall everyone has to compare him to other guys taken 1st and if he doesn't set the world on fire he's a certified bust.

It's pretty much only one person in this thread, who, if you dig a little deeper, seems to have a vendetta against the Habs? Especially considering his most recent post in this thread just called Slafkovsky a "man child"...

I think we can shift focus to the hockey being played and the player's development, while ignoring a clear troll who doesn't know anything about development.

I think its because people expected him to be "Cale Makar" before Cale Makar was himself.

Precisely this. It was a small addition to my general point, which was that even the best of the best often need time to develop. Dahlin's NHL career thus far has been up and down, but he now looks well on track to be an elite defenseman.

 

[Guttersniped]

You know a ton of 240pound 18 year olds?

The average NHL player comes in just shy of 200pounds

He’s 18 years old, does weight make you older?

Why do you think big players like him historically take longer? It’s not an advantage until you get strong enough to skate with that weight, which take more core strength and that comes with age, not with just more trips to the gym.

Offhand how many top picks you keep comparing him to have that much weight?

Ovechkin was listed at 6’3” and 233 at the draft but he didn’t hit the NHL until his age 20 season. (Because of the lockout, I know, but that’s when he got here.)

Thornton, that ancient 1997 example you reject, was listed at 6’4” and 230. And he was an infamous slow starter.

Slafkovsky is a rawer prospect, and I’m not sure what kind of player he will develop into, but if you look at the heavier players they all first click in the NHL later. Even with the top guys it’s around their age 20 season.

I personally thought Slafkovsky had very little (to none, really) chance of being NHL ready this season, not at 18 at his size.

There aren’t a ton a precedents in general, few skilled forwards come this big, but the precedents of them flourishing in NHL at 18 is non-existent. (Edit: well, I guess Lindros, but that’s Lindros and he held out in his age 18 season.)

I’m not going to play internet debate club here, if you don’t agree with this point then fine. Keep hammering at the kid, I don’t care.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

The difference is Canadians management has stated repeatedly that they essentially don’t think Slaf will be the best player out the gate. They have always viewed him as a guy who could be great years from now.

For almost every other 1st overall pick, they were drafted as guys who could make a nearly immediate impact. That was never the idea when drafted Slaf imo.

It doesn't matter. You should still expect the first overall pick to show some tools. The kid is 240lbs and doesn't seem physical.

 

[FliegerKorps]

It doesn't matter. You should still expect the first overall pick to show some tools. The kid is 240lbs and doesn't seem physical.

That's just a blatant lie. He obviously has moments where he is physically overwhelmed but when he engages the puck, he uses his body very well to protect it. You can see the "it" when he's on.

 

[ijuka]

That's just a blatant lie. He obviously has moments where he is physically overwhelmed but when he engages the puck, he uses his body very well to protect it. You can see the "it" when he's on.

Yeah, he uses his body to protect the puck, that's definitely true. However, he doesn't actively use it physically. He doesn't engage very physically in battles, make thundering hits and so on. Think about Ovechkin at 240 and compare.

It's much easier to play against a big player when they only use their size passively.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

You know a ton of 240pound 18 year olds?

The average NHL player comes in just shy of 200pounds

It's almost like he has unique qualities that resulted in him being selected first overall in the 2022 NHL Entry Draft

 

[nbwingsfan]

It's almost like he has unique qualities that resulted in him being selected first overall in the 2022 NHL Entry Draft

Drafting for size has a precedent of being a pretty bad move.

 

[MichaelFarrell]

It doesn't matter. You should still expect the first overall pick to show some tools. The kid is 240lbs and doesn't seem physical.

I agree with that. But, he’s always played as a skill player rather than a power forward. He has some skill, but I do agree that he is going to need to learn to engage in physical contact where he has a clear advantage.

Power forwards take time to develop their game.

 

[Kennerback]

It doesn't matter. You should still expect the first overall pick to show some tools. The kid is 240lbs and doesn't seem physical.

It depends what you mean by physical. Open ice hits he doesn’t do. Skate with the puck while 2 Players are hanging on to him and a 3rd is slashing him, he does do.

 

[Andrei79]

Sure, 1st overall picks over history have often made an immediate impact.

But that's not a pre-requisite for a 1st overall pick or an indicator of the final impact a 1st overall pick will have when its all said or done.

Slaf hasn't even played one regular season game yet and you are already labeling him as a disappointment. Why?

Honestly, reading his posts, there doesn't seem to be much chance of any constructive discussion. He's either ignorant of the draft or obtuse.

 

[Garbageyuk]

No, I specifically said "reached their draft pedigree" which, for Dahlin, was a generational defenseman. I hardly think 44 points is "generational" and the following two years also weren't that "generational". If you read the post like you claim you did, it was in comparison to the likes of McDavid, Matthews who had star impact out of the gate. Dahlin and Hischier had fantastic rookie seasons, but not in the context of the post, and especially not the general conversation. It is absolutely cherry-picking.

I'm prepared to be wrong on Dahlin specifically because still had a pretty historic rookie season, but due to the reasons above, you pretty clearly missed the general point of the post.

His draft “pedigree” is a #1 overall pick. He lived up to it immediately. He also lived up to his pre-draft hype, if that’s what you meant. He broke records and played like a #1 D…at 18 years old. Take the L.

 

[Xirik]

His draft “pedigree” is a #1 overall pick. He lived up to it immediately. He also lived up to his pre-draft hype, if that’s what you meant. He broke records and played like a #1 D…at 18 years old. Take the L.

I'm pretty sure I remember threads where Buffalo fans were worried about Dahlin and there were definitely talks about how he might not live up to his "hype".

 

[Gillings]

The problem with this take is the fact that besides Hughes in 2019, the rest of these guys shouldn't have been drafted so high and I feel the same way about Slaf, tho granted it's too soon to truly know.

2017 Makar and Petey should have been 1-2.
2018 Quinn is as of now #1 in a redraft considering he's out producing every single player.
2019 Jack was always the right choice and even when the points weren't there, one didn't need to grasp at straws to justify the pick. I feel the same way about Slaf as I did and do feel about Byfield and Dach, a GM fell in love with size and reached.

I mean I get that it's far too small of a sample size to shit on Slaf , however given that his entire reason for being #1 was almost entirely based on his size and a couple international tournaments against weak competition, it's fair for people to nit-pick.

People saying that Jack struggled and using that as an example seem to forget how utterly dominant he was with the USNDP. There are other players that have struggled as well but they too at least dominated in their draft season. A guy like Cooley, he at least showed elite skill and maybe that doesn't end up translating but at least there's a glimpse. Slaf has such a small sample size where he played well but a much larger example of not. And now some point out scrimmages ffs while ignoring the fact that guys like Beck and Mesar looked a million times better in the exact same situations. Sorry that's a big red flag.
Maybe things change but what in his past supports this? Even his games that everyone talks about, he scored some really flukes goals against some pretty shitty teams.

I think that although 18 year old slafkovsky has shown his inconsistency in the NHL so far, the whole 2022 draft is littered with players through the whole draft who will end up being top10 talents when all said and done.

Slafkovsky has the highest dominance potential out of the whole draft with the best skill set and size. They drafted the right 1st overall and I believe time is 100% going to show us this.

 

[Frank Drebin]

His draft “pedigree” is a #1 overall pick. He lived up to it immediately. He also lived up to his pre-draft hype, if that’s what you meant. He broke records and played like a #1 D…at 18 years old. Take the L.

The hype around dahlin was insane though, to the point that a 44 pointv season from an 18 year old defenseman was "considered" disappointing.

He was talked about as the best defensive prospect in the past 40 years, people were expecting current cale makar play as a rookie.

That said, still a very good season for a #1 pick.

 

[David Suzuki]

Fairly sure I remember NBwingsfan from the Caufield threads