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LW Jimmy Vesey (2012, 66th, NSH; 2016 UFA, NYR)

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93LEAFS said:
Zaitsev got bonuses
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I'm not too sure how accurate this is but I've read that LL doesn't like giving out schedule B bonuses and it looks like Zaitsev got schedule A bonuses in his contract.

If a team is offering both A and B to Vesey and the Leafs only offer A then the Leafs are putting themselves at a disadvantage.
 
LeafsRockForBabcock said:
He won't sign with Toronto, Lou won't give him the bonus' he wants.

However, if he doesn't just want the money, do you go to a declining Bruins team, or a team coming out of a rebuild who also employs your brother and father?

Hell, I think most people would choose a team with a chance of being good, rather than another who is just entering theirs.
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You have to start winning games before you can say you are coming out of a rebuild. :laugh:
 
AmericanDream said:
I never really paid much attention to it, but can anyone explain why the August 15th date?

I mean that is well after the draft and free agency, you would think teams would want to know if they can land a kid like this during free agency and not after when roster spots get filled.

'never understood it to be honest.
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theIceWookie said:
It used to be earlier (Schultz signed June 30th). I think they pushed the date back to essentially give the team that owned the players rights more time to try and sign the player (I believe it was a pretty quick turnaround after the player declared they were leaving school).
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To expand on Hynh's post, it comes down to whether the player graduated or opted to leave school early. Here's the CBA wording:

CBA said:
8.6(c) College Players

(iii) If a Player drafted at age 18 or 19, who had received a Bona Fide Offer in accordance with Section 8.6(a)(ii) above, becomes a bona fide college student prior to the second June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft and remains a bona fide college student through the graduation of his college class, his drafting Club shall retain the exclusive rights of negotiation for his services through and including the August 15 following the graduation of his college class.

(iv) If a Player drafted at age 18 or 19, who had received a Bona Fide Offer in accordance with Section 8.6(a)(ii) above, becomes a bona fide college student prior to the second June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft and does not remain a bona fide college student through the graduation of his college class, his drafting Club shall retain exclusive rights for the negotiation of his services until the fourth June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft.
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Schultz became UFA on June 1st, but took his time and got wined/dined by a bunch of teams before coming to a decision. Similarly Blake Wheeler took this path and signed with Boston on June 17th after he left school.

Whereas a graduating senior like Kevin Hayes had to wait until August to get UFA status; Hayes would sign with the Rangers on August 20th that year.
 
Brodeur said:
To expand on Hynh's post, it comes down to whether the player graduated or opted to leave school early. Here's the CBA wording:



Schultz became UFA on June 1st, but took his time and got wined/dined by a bunch of teams before coming to a decision. Similarly Blake Wheeler took this path and signed with Boston on June 17th after he left school.

Whereas a graduating senior like Kevin Hayes had to wait until August to get UFA status; Hayes would sign with the Rangers on August 20th that year.
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And the key point with Wheeler and Schultz is that they were both Juniors. Having spent a season in the US development program before starting college, so they became UFA's 4 years after the draft on June 1st.

If a player is on the college roster as of January 1st of their Senior season then the date is August 15th, even if the player were to leave school before actually graduating.
 
mouser said:
And the key point with Wheeler and Schultz is that they were both Juniors. Having spent a season in the US development program before starting college, so they became UFA's 4 years after the draft on June 1st.

If a player is on the college roster as of January 1st of their Senior season then the date is August 15th, even if the player were to leave school before actually graduating.
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Just to clarify, Schultz is Canadian and spent an extra year in the BCHL. Wheeler wasn't a USNDP kid, he played HS Hockey then took a gap year in the USHL for the Green Bay Gamblers. But your general point is correct. Its the same set of rules that allowed Mike Reilly to sign on July 1st last year.
 
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Dr Chin Richalds said:
Its gonna be the Rangers because that's my team
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It actually would be a smart move on his part to go with the Rangers. Given their lack of draft picks, he would rank high on their depth chart and have a better shot of getting attention from the organization
 
Woll Smoth said:
Leafs left wing looks pretty weak on the 2nd or 3rd line. He wouldn't have too much trouble cracking the line up there if he's actually NHL ready. The only potential problem in Toronto is if LL doesn't want to give out bonuses while everyone else will. Considering the only contracts team can offer Vesey are identical it'll seriously hamper the Leafs chances of signing him.

Unless of course Shanahan is a wizard.
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Martin, JVR, and Komarov are pretty much locks for LW on the Leafs. Greening, Lupul, Michalek, Rychel, Leivo, and Leipsic will be fighting for that last spot. Depending on how the fight for the right wings goes, he could be contending with Soshnikov as well. I don't see the Leafs promising a guy with 0 AHL and NHL games a spot on the roster, and I think Vesey is looking to play in the NHL next season. I don't think he would crack the Leafs roster.
 
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http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/07/14...-but-who-else-might-he-be-willing-to-talk-to/

Looking more likely Boston the eventual choice here. Buffalo probably second best chance. Even if it's perfectly in his rights, I still think it's a ***** move to bail on the team that drafted you and stood by you and offered you a top 6 role for a playoff run. They should change the rule so that you have to wait a year after finishing college if you want to become a free agent. At least make it so the team has some kind of upper hand otherwise this will keep happening. This is a business with adults. A guy holding out to wear his favourite childhood jersey isn't very businesslike.
 
Caesium said:
Martin, JVR, and Komarov are pretty much locks for LW on the Leafs. Greening, Lupul, Michalek, Rychel, Leivo, and Leipsic will be fighting for that last spot. Depending on how the fight for the right wings goes, he could be contending with Soshnikov as well. I don't see the Leafs promising a guy with 0 AHL and NHL games a spot on the roster, and I think Vesey is looking to play in the NHL next season. I don't think he would crack the Leafs roster.
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JVR should start off the season as the 1LW, Martin will be 4LW. I completely forgot about Komarov, he'll be taking up either the 2LW or 3LW spot.

Greening is more suited for the bottom lines, and if I'm not mistaken he can play any forward position. Lupul and Michalek are injury prone, I don't think they'd hold up Vesey signing here IF he's interested. I've read on this site that Lupul might not even play this season, and could be Robidas'd.

I think Vesey would be in a fight for a spot against the younger guys you mentioned on your list, which is why I think he would have an easier time competing against players with almost no NHL experience. IMO Soshnikov and Leipsic would be his most direct competition and I wouldn't consider them NHL regulars just yet. Rychel is a wildcard for me since I know so little about him (and we acquired him so cheap) and I've never seen why a lot of people are so high on Leivo.

The argument against this is probably that Vesey has even less NHL experience than the people he's going to be competing against, but my point was that if Vesey is NHL ready (and Nashville did offer top him 6 minutes in the playoffs) then maybe he'll be able to solidify a position on the Leafs before any of the younger guys do.
 
I don't know why all these teams are offering him a spot in the top 6 in order to sign him.


He's not even that great of a prospect.

It's not like he dominated the NCAA.
 
Woll Smoth said:
JVR should start off the season as the 1LW, Martin will be 4LW. I completely forgot about Komarov, he'll be taking up either the 2LW or 3LW spot.

Greening is more suited for the bottom lines, and if I'm not mistaken he can play any forward position. Lupul and Michalek are injury prone, I don't think they'd hold up Vesey signing here IF he's interested. I've read on this site that Lupul might not even play this season, and could be Robidas'd.

I think Vesey would be in a fight for a spot against the younger guys you mentioned on your list, which is why I think he would have an easier time competing against players with almost no NHL experience. IMO Soshnikov and Leipsic would be his most direct competition and I wouldn't consider them NHL regulars just yet. Rychel is a wildcard for me since I know so little about him (and we acquired him so cheap) and I've never seen why a lot of people are so high on Leivo.

The argument against this is probably that Vesey has even less NHL experience than the people he's going to be competing against, but my point was that if Vesey is NHL ready (and Nashville did offer top him 6 minutes in the playoffs) then maybe he'll be able to solidify a position on the Leafs before any of the younger guys do.
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Leivo has proven more in the AHL and NHL than any of the Leafs winger prospects except perhaps Brown. There's no reason to believe that Vesey is much if at all better than Leivo. They are exactly the same age (have the same birthday). Leivo was almost ppg (48 points in 51 games) in the AHL, and if he was in college he probably would have put up similar numbers to Vesey. Hyman dominated college 2 years ago and Leivo easily outproduced him this past year on the Marlies.
 
The key is to promise the world during contract negotiations, and if the prospect isn't very good you boot him to the farm team. Just look at Tim Erixon.
 
ocrighton said:
Leivo has proven more in the AHL and NHL than any of the Leafs winger prospects except perhaps Brown. There's no reason to believe that Vesey is much if at all better than Leivo. They are exactly the same age (have the same birthday). Leivo was almost ppg (48 points in 51 games) in the AHL, and if he was in college he probably would have put up similar numbers to Vesey. Hyman dominated college 2 years ago and Leivo easily outproduced him this past year on the Marlies.
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That puts things into perspective a little better. Seems like Leivo has been in the system for a while without making the team, and Vesey's got no age or experience advantage here. Makes sense then with what you and Caesium said then.

I'd still like Vesey though, not comfortable with how shallow the LW looks compared to RW and C now.
 
Breakers said:
I don't know why all these teams are offering him a spot in the top 6 in order to sign him.


He's not even that great of a prospect.

It's not like he dominated the NCAA.
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Yeah he did. Played in an older, defensive minded conference in the ECAC. Nobody will put up Kyle Connor numbers in the ECAC. It is the conference with the most parity. Not to mention his linemates were essentially nobodies. He was very well the most well rounded player in college hockey this year. Any team who gets him will be lucky
 
Treb said:
Salary cap. Malkin, Crosby, Letang, Kessel, Maata. Also Bonino new deal.

EDIT: If he wants a fat paycheck as post-ELC RFA, he needs a team with cap space.
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Oh, is that inevitable? :laugh:

There's no shortage of cap space for the Pens if Vesey proves worthy of getting a significant bump.
 
Breakers said:
I don't know why all these teams are offering him a spot in the top 6 in order to sign him.


He's not even that great of a prospect.

It's not like he dominated the NCAA.
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No reason not to want him, but also no reason for everyone to lose their minds.
 
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