Lucas Raymond

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

I remember watching a post draft review after we got Raymond, and one of the characters on whatever show I was watching (scouching, PDOcast, maybe Tony Ferrari?) said if Raymond fills out he had a lot of Hossa in his game. Never quite saw that until the past few weeks, but the intensity and dynamic offense we’re seeing as he gets more confident is so fun.

Long way off from Marian, but I’m happy to daydream about it for a while.

 

[Cake Eater]

It was a clean hit, dangerous but clean.

If it was clean he wouldn’t’ve got 5+game. If it was clean he wouldn’t’ve got suspended additionally.

 

[14ari13]

Clean? I mean, he is getting a suspension, so couldn't be that clean.

Just would prefer the Wings not to have to deal with the guy again.

Clean and nice. He is a very tall player, while Raymond is small so his shoulder/elbow caught Raymond's head/chin. If it was Rasmussen instead of Raymond it would not have been even a 2 min PP.

I am fine with 5 min, the game and 2 additional games. The league wants to protect the hits to the head. But there is nothing the team has to try to revenge for.

 

[NickH8]

I remember watching a post draft review after we got Raymond, and one of the characters on whatever show I was watching (scouching, PDOcast, maybe Tony Ferrari?) said if Raymond fills out he had a lot of Hossa in his game. Never quite saw that until the past few weeks, but the intensity and dynamic offense we’re seeing as he gets more confident is so fun.

Long way off from Marian, but I’m happy to daydream about it for a while.

I see it. He's getting stronger and developing that puck protection ability like Hossa or Zetterberg. He could be a throwback to that kind of player that thrived in the 2000s. He's still very young and has a lot of time to grow.

 

[WF19]

Raymond is gonna turn into the Wings first home grown elite player since Dats and Zett.

 

[13to40]

Zadorov only gets 2 games, he will be back for our game in Vancouver on Thursday.

I don't like that.

I do. Somebody has to stand up and send the message

 

[14ari13]

I do. Somebody has to stand up and send the message

Why? It was a clean hit.
Kronwall delivered at least 10 far worse hits.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Clean and nice. He is a very tall player, while Raymond is small so his shoulder/elbow caught Raymond's head/chin. If it was Rasmussen instead of Raymond it would not have been even a 2 min PP.

I am fine with 5 min, the game and 2 additional games. The league wants to protect the hits to the head. But there is nothing the team has to try to revenge for.

This hit obviously isn't clean. You should familiarize yourself with rule 48.1. This is an illegal check to the head because Zadorov caught little of Raymonds body but picked the head. Had he hit squarely to Raymond's body the head contact would've been unavoidable and therefore legal. Height has nothing to do with it.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I do. Somebody has to stand up and send the message

If Zadorov wants to go with Fischer or Kostin, fine. But I don't want anyone else on the Wings wasting their time.

This was an attempted hit gone bad and Raymond seems to be fine. The 2 points is more important than trying to send a message to a team they won't play again this season.

 

[14ari13]

This hit obviously isn't clean. You should familiarize yourself with rule 48.1. This is an illegal check to the head because Zadorov caught little of Raymonds body but picked the head. Had he hit squarely to Raymond's body the head contact would've been unavoidable and therefore legal. Height has nothing to do with it.

That is fine in the rule book, but the game is too fast and the players are unable to react quickly enough.
Had Seider or Chiarot delivered that hit I would have loved it. In this situation when on our player, I don't love it, but I don't hate it either.
Kronwall has delivered much worse hits.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Why? It was a clean hit.
Kronwall delivered at least 10 far worse hits.

Lol no.

 

[13to40]

Why? It was a clean hit.
Kronwall delivered at least 10 far worse hits.

Not sure how you think it’s clean.

Primary point of contact is the head.

This is never a clean hit.

Kronwall’s primary point of contact was usually chest/shoulder.

Maybe you need to brush up on the rule book for hitting… it’s a fine line, which is why there will always be a constant debate about it…

Also, rules have become a lot more strict since Kronwall was delivering those beauty quite a few years back.

 

[13to40]

If Zadorov wants to go with Fischer or Kostin, fine. But I don't want anyone else on the Wings wasting their time.

This was an attempted hit gone bad and Raymond seems to be fine. The 2 points is more important than trying to send a message to a team they won't play again this season.

Kostin was signed to add some muscle into the roster.

Fischer I never presumed would fight, he’s just a big bodied player who delivers some hits and forechecks hard.

But both these guys should be licking their chops for when they line up against Zadorov next, more often then not a locker room views “standing up for/ avenging your teammate” in the best way possible.

Mind you I don’t think such a reaction is in the playing cards of the coach. Had this been a Berube/ Tots coached team, maybe a different approach would be taken come the next meeting of these two teams.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

I was just figuring facing Vancouver without Zadorov is better than facing with.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Clean and nice. He is a very tall player, while Raymond is small so his shoulder/elbow caught Raymond's head/chin. If it was Rasmussen instead of Raymond it would not have been even a 2 min PP.

I am fine with 5 min, the game and 2 additional games. The league wants to protect the hits to the head. But there is nothing the team has to try to revenge for.

No player in the league is tall enough that they should land contact to the head with their elbow unless they're head hunting. Proper hitting form has you drop your shoulder, tuck your elbow and drive through the player with your hips following your shoulders through their center of mass.

That hit he stood up straight and side-swiped the head with the shoulder and outstretched elbow. That's clear intent to injure with a hit to the head. He wasn't square, he didn't drive through the center of mass, and he made the head his primary target.

Kronwall had some dirty hits. Gordie Howe used to elbow people in the face that tried to check him. Vlad the Impaler used to stick his enemies on stakes. Sometimes we decide that the way people used to behave shouldn't persist. Not sure what your point is.

You can be an old man yelling at clouds that hockey is becoming a noncontact sport or whatever. The game is changing. By modern NHL standards, that's a 5 minute major and up to a 5 game suspension. It should be. It's reckless, it's dangerous and it's unnecessary.

 

[Ezekial]

Why? It was a clean hit.
Kronwall delivered at least 10 far worse hits.

What are you talking about?



Nm just saw your other post. Just a terrible take and not worth discussing with you.

 

[14ari13]

Not sure how you think it’s clean.

Primary point of contact is the head.

This is never a clean hit.

Kronwall’s primary point of contact was usually chest/shoulder.

Maybe you need to brush up on the rule book for hitting… it’s a fine line, which is why there will always be a constant debate about it…

Also, rules have become a lot more strict since Kronwall was delivering those beauty quite a few years back.

Nobody has to brush up on the rule book here. Every single poster on this board is aware that the rules have changed and are much stricter now than a few years ago.
He got 5 min, the match and additional 2 games.
Perron got 6 games for something which would not be a single game a few years ago.
So the league is determined to protect the players and that is good. But it was not a dirty hit.

I will not keep the discussion on this topic going as I don't see the point of discussing it. I won't change my opinion. I am 100% fine with the hit.

 

[SwedeChristoffer]

Nobody has to brush up on the rule book here. Every single poster on this board is aware that the rules have changed and are much stricter now than a few years ago.
He got 5 min, the match and additional 2 games.
Perron got 6 games for something which would not be a single game a few years ago.
So the league is determined to protect the players and that is good. But it was not a dirty hit.

I will not keep the discussion on this topic going as I don't see the point of discussing it. I won't change my opinion. I am 100% fine with the hit.

I think people are reacting to the use of the word clean.

It wasn't dirty (he didn't have any bad intentions). But since Raymond got hit almost exclusively in the head it's by definition not a clean hit.

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

I think people are reacting to the use of the word clean.

It wasn't dirty (he didn't have any bad intentions). But since Raymond got hit almost exclusively in the head it's by definition not a clean hit.

It was a bad hit, but not a dirty hit. I don't think Zadorov intended to blast Raymond in the head.

It deserves to be a 2 game suspension to send the message that poorly timed or poorly delivered hits that result in blows to the head will also be punished so that players learn that you have to start targeting the middle of the body, not leading into hits with your forearms and elbows, and not launching into players. If Zadorov goes into that hit braced with his arms down, and doesn't launch into Raymond, he likely still rocks Raymond to the ice without riding his shoulder up into his head.

It was like he wanted to do a hip check and forgot to lead with his hip. Just all around poor form. I wouldn't be surprised if Zadorov realized that the puck was already off the stick and tried to get out of the hit and just f***ed everything up. If the hit had been a clean hip check it was still late enough that it could have been an interference call.

 

[sepster]

Hockey hit gone wrong. I'm fine with the attempt, the intention, and the timing, Zadorov just missed his mark. Had he hit Raymod shoulder-to-shoulder or in the chest, it would have been a great hockey hit.

My take on the hit from the main boards.

 

[Gniwder]

No player in the league is tall enough that they should land contact to the head with their elbow unless they're head hunting. Proper hitting form has you drop your shoulder, tuck your elbow and drive through the player with your hips following your shoulders through their center of mass.

That hit he stood up straight and side-swiped the head with the shoulder and outstretched elbow. That's clear intent to injure with a hit to the head. He wasn't square, he didn't drive through the center of mass, and he made the head his primary target.

Kronwall had some dirty hits. Gordie Howe used to elbow people in the face that tried to check him. Vlad the Impaler used to stick his enemies on stakes. Sometimes we decide that the way people used to behave shouldn't persist. Not sure what your point is.

You can be an old man yelling at clouds that hockey is becoming a noncontact sport or whatever. The game is changing. By modern NHL standards, that's a 5 minute major and up to a 5 game suspension. It should be. It's reckless, it's dangerous and it's unnecessary.

Watch the replay, elbow didn't hit Raymond, the shoulder then Zadorov's head did. If I intended to injure someone, I wouldn't be skating backwards and hitting with my own head. I don't think there was an attempt to injure, I think it was just a really dumb hockey move. Plus look at his reaction in the penalty box.

I'm good with a major and 2 games for being stupid. It's not like this team has anyone that can take on Zadorov anyways.

 

[FMichael]

That is fine in the rule book, but the game is too fast and the players are unable to react quickly enough.
Had Seider or Chiarot delivered that hit I would have loved it. In this situation when on our player, I don't love it, but I don't hate it either.
Kronwall has delivered much worse hits.

Agreed…It’s always easy to armchair when slow motion and freeze frame are at your fingertips…Zadorov initiated the hit while Raymond still had possession of the puck and we all saw how it went down…Unfortunate but unintentional and he got 2 game vacation…Ray Ray is ok - time to move on!

LGRW!!!

 

[HisNoodliness]

Watch the replay, elbow didn't hit Raymond, the shoulder then Zadorov's head did. If I intended to injure someone, I wouldn't be skating backwards and hitting with my own head. I don't think there was an attempt to injure, I think it was just a really dumb hockey move. Plus look at his reaction in the penalty box.

I'm good with a major and 2 games for being stupid. It's not like this team has anyone that can take on Zadorov anyways.

We can split hairs on whether Zadorov actually catches Raymond with the elbow, it's still extended and reaching. And you're right that maybe it's just a negligent play and not a malicious one. I don't know.

I agree that the suspension is sufficient and I don't see any need for some big revenge display. Raymond came back, he seems fine and while I think it was a dirty hit, it's not egregious. In the direct aftermath of a play like that, sure, someone should probably send a message. Now that the game is done, we should just move on.

 

[Ezekial]

It's always funny when people bring up intent in regards to players that attempt big hits all the time and inevitably hit players in the head and could seriously f*** up their career.

No on thinks these guys are intending to do this shit. If you keep hitting people in the head I don't care about your intent. You are an irresponsible hitter and not the one who gets the consequences from your well intended actions.

Zadorov's hit was not clean (nor was it malicious or dirty). It was a shitty hit. It was straight to Raymond's head. It was not late, it was a well timed hit, it was just a terrible angle and he only hit someone in the head.
Raymond admiring his pass didn't put his head in a different path, Zadorov's shitty path put his shoulder into his head.

It wasn't clean. He was suspended for 2 and ~2/3s of a game for it.

 

[Oddbob]

My take on the hit from the main boards.

To me, this hit was one of those unfortunate things were a taller player hit a shorter player, and caught his head a bit. I know Zadorov plays on the edge, but I think he was intending high chest hit, and missed. Fast paced game and any player delivering a hit could do this. The same way players can shoot the puck at the net and miss, same can be said for hitting. 2 games was more than fine, and I honestly wouldn't have blown a gasket if he got 0. To me this wasn't intent to head hit, which is what the league should focus more on.