Prospect Info: Logan Mailloux Part 3 The Only Hockey Talk Thread

[Scriptor]

Yes. Get them in the 3rd.

How about the fifth round like with Roy, Gallagher, etc...

 

[HuGort]

Barron is a much more fluid skater. But I think from what I have seen to date, Bonk has a higher hockey IQ. And while I agree his upside may be a bit limited, if the ‘value’ of the Florida pick declines, the high certainty of Bonk’s being an NHler may make him an attractive option. Over the past few years we have gambled on a few high picks and it may be time to adopt a more conservative tack, regardless of how boring such an approach is.

First round lot of offense available in this draft. Savard caliber are solid NHLers, but player we can acquire as tier 2 UFA or part of a Lekhonen type trade. If Bonk slides to our 2nd though, I'd grab him

 

[Sam de Mtl]

I feel like you can get your 3rd and 4th liners in lower rounds a lot more routinely than you’ll find too talent, therefore I feel like we should go for top talent in the first rounds.

And I wasn’t disingenuous, my point is even going for « low risk » players we’ve hit a bunch of busts. Might as well try to get the home run if we routinely miss anyway.

Agree to disagree.

Anyway, all is fine. I don't necessairly diaagree with you completely.

However there is a case to be made for the guys who will be better than average depth players. A guy like Lawson Crouse, at the time of the draft, hfboards fans were not interested. It took him some time, but it turns out he was worth his draft slot (if his team had been more patient). His combination of size, skating with some skill makes him an important asset to a team. It's not enough to have a skilled team. Your team has to be a handful in a few different ways to prevent other teams to adapt.

A guy like Nichushkin, Niederreiter or Crouse can be invaluable. Rare kind of players even if they are not typical top liners.

Edit: that being said, i know all 3 of those were busts for the team that drafted them and only became what they are today later on. It's not a black and white subject.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

First round lot of offense available in this draft. Savard caliber are solid NHLers, but player we can acquire as tier 2 UFA or part of a Lekhonen type trade. If Bonk slides to our 2nd though, I'd grab him

Free agency has definitely changed the calculus of drafting and team building as it allows teams to paper over improvident draft choices. Savard and Chariot style of defencemen are not as easy to find as one may suspect. Tampa paid a first round choice to acquire Savard and look at the bounty Florida paid us for Chariot. I think Bonk has a higher upside than either of these players and I think there will be no shortage of teams who will be in agreement with this assessment. It would not surprise me if Bonk goes in the top 20. Bonk has size, sufficient levels of mobility and physicality, displays some offensive flair, can log big minutes, shows a high compete level and comes with a good pedigree. Bottom line, he’s not falling to the second round.

 

[HuGort]

Free agency has definitely changed the calculus of drafting and team building as it allows teams to paper over improvident draft choices. Savard and Chariot style of defencemen are not as easy to find as one may suspect. Tampa paid a first round choice to acquire Savard and look at the bounty Florida paid us for Chariot. I think Bonk has a higher upside than either of these players and I think there will be no shortage of teams who will be in agreement with this assessment. It would not surprise me if Bonk goes in the top 20. Bonk has size, sufficient levels of mobility and physicality, displays some offensive flair, can log big minutes, shows a high compete level and comes with a good pedigree. Bottom line, he’s not falling to the second round.

I figure Habs will acquire another first. Likely around 20. Anderson traded. Bonk be good pick there.

Projecting Our future D;. Guhle and Jackeye on left side. Hutson probably play third pairing minutes plus the powerplay. Savard real good third pairing. Barron rounding into second pairing. We need that first pairing right D. Likely trade as best ones hard to find. At draft '24, I would offer a team something crazy for one of best in NHL. Dach type trade. If it's the necessary piece.

For now, Eddy and Savard played well together in Nashville game and Isles loss. Never watched Ranger game. In two years I think both be gone for first picks. Matheson also. That's three first rounders added to '24-'26 drafts. Gives us enough future depth to offer a team major package for #1 right D. I would go big as I always like great defense

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I figure Habs will acquire another first. Likely around 20. Anderson traded. Bonk be good pick there.

Projecting Our future D;. Guhle and Jackeye on left side. Hutson probably play third pairing minutes plus the powerplay. Savard real good third pairing. Barron rounding into second pairing. We need that first pairing right D. Likely trade as best ones hard to find. At draft '24, I would offer a team something crazy for one of best in NHL. Dach type trade. If it's the necessary piece.

For now, Eddy and Savard played well together in Nashville game and Isles loss. Never watched Ranger game. In two years I think both be gone for first picks. Matheson also. That's three first rounders added to '24-'26 drafts. Gives us enough future depth to offer a team major package for #1 right D. I would go big as I always like great defense

Its a good plan. But I think if you don't trade Edmundson and Savard this year, your chances of securing a first round choice for either of them will materially decrease as these players will be older and less impactful players. This is the year ( which is already a thrown away year) to take that one last big step backward. Their loss will hurt in the immediate short term, but that loss will even out, if not be erased, as early as next year, as our younger defenceman ( Guhle, Harris, Xhekaj , Barron) gain experience.

 

[HuGort]

Its a good plan. But I think if you don't trade Edmundson and Savard this year, your chances of securing a first round choice for either of them will materially decrease as these players will be older and less impactful players. This is the year ( which is already a thrown away year) to take that one last big step backward. Their loss will hurt in the immediate short term, but that loss will even out, if not be erased, as early as next year, as our younger defenceman ( Guhle, Harris, Xhekaj , Barron) gain experience.

defensemen at deadline usually return premium value. Eddy I would trade this deadline. Savard another as we thin right side

I would design my team with a big mobile defense. Gives a team so many more options. They are hard to play against in playoffs. Especially for small or finesse scoring forwards. A great defense makes a good goalie a great goalie. They even make an average goalie a good goalie. I wouldn't have to pay or trade for top goalie. A great defense adds secondary scoring.

At draft '24, I would offer 3 or 4 of our core youth for one of top right defenseman in league. If I think team is close. That's how I roll. I gain Norris caliber right D. Plus I know I have 3 extra first coming in later drafts to replace them. I give up say top 10 pick in '24 draft, say Dach and prospect like Mesar. If defenseman is the piece I need. On right side I have the Norris D, then Barron my second pairing. Savard my third. Left side I have Guhle, Xhekaj and Hutson. I think that is hell good a defense.

Up front, my top 9 be, Caufield, Suzuki, Roy, Slaf, Dubois, our first pick this year, Barlow? Beck, Heinemann, our second first this year, Leonard? Evans is turning into a good 4th line center.

 

[zzoo]

How about the fifth round like with Roy, Gallagher, etc...

I don't know why, but I remember our 5th picks more than 2nd, 3rd or 4th picks. I remember Hudon, Gallagher, Farrell and Roy. Maybe we should trade our 3rd and 4th picks for a 5th

 

[26Mats]

Its a good plan. But I think if you don't trade Edmundson and Savard this year, your chances of securing a first round choice for either of them will materially decrease as these players will be older and less impactful players. This is the year ( which is already a thrown away year) to take that one last big step backward. Their loss will hurt in the immediate short term, but that loss will even out, if not be erased, as early as next year, as our younger defenceman ( Guhle, Harris, Xhekaj , Barron) gain experience.

We only need 1 vet D to complete a 6 man starting score with our 5 young D (Guhke, Xhekaj, Barron, Harris, Kivacevic). That 1 vet could be one of Matheson, Savard, and Eddie - or none of them and rather a vet ufa signed as stop gap until Mailloux/Hutson/Engstrom are ready...

Some are pointing out Savard may henceforth keeping to help lure his good friend Dubois. Also it is good to have Frenxh Quebecers on the team. Maybe Mathson and Eddie move before Savard?

 

[Tyson]

We only need 1 vet D to complete a 6 man starting score with our 5 young D (Guhke, Xhekaj, Barron, Harris, Kivacevic). That 1 vet could be one of Matheson, Savard, and Eddie - or none of them and rather a vet ufa signed as stop gap until Mailloux/Hutson/Engstrom are ready...

Some are pointing out Savard may henceforth keeping to help lure his good friend Dubois. Also it is good to have Frenxh Quebecers on the team. Maybe Mathson and Eddie move before Savard?

Good point about the Savard PLD connection.

Matheson needs to show he is healthy but I doubt Hughes wants to trade him.

Edmundson I would see what other GM's are willing to part with.

 

[Scriptor]

Its a good plan. But I think if you don't trade Edmundson and Savard this year, your chances of securing a first round choice for either of them will materially decrease as these players will be older and less impactful players. This is the year ( which is already a thrown away year) to take that one last big step backward. Their loss will hurt in the immediate short term, but that loss will even out, if not be erased, as early as next year, as our younger defenceman ( Guhle, Harris, Xhekaj , Barron) gain experience.

Generally, I tend to agree, but you lump both into the same basket when savard os 32 and Edmundson is still only 29. Barring issues with his back creeping up yet again (which they admittedly could, chronic back problems being a bitch that doesn't tend to go away), As a 30-yr-old rental, Edmundson could still be worth a 1st rounder next year.

For Savard, he is playing lights put this season in a situation where he must occupy a bigger chair than he is suited to occupy. However, he has slowed down and that will be even more apparent next year, and then year after that, as his current contract expires.

I still doubt Savard is worth a 1st round pick at 3.5M, given his age and the term left on his contract. He might be worth it if Hughes held back 1.75M, but I'm almost certain that Hughes would not hold back 1.75M for two seasons.

Hughes might hold back 1.75M for next year on Edmundson if the return warrants it, but we're practically into next year already with this season written off (playoff-wise) and holding back salary in a season for an expiring contract, whether it is at the start of the season or at the trade deadline shouldn't be a concern on a rebuilding team. It's not like they will be scratching and saving to add someone at the deadline for a playoff push?

I think Hughes (and St-Louis) will really want to keep Savard around as a calming force next season as well, but could be willing to trade him at next year's trade deadline, with the youngsters having two years under their belts then and, perhaps, once Montreal has acquired an NHL-ready, top-four RHD via trade or the UFA market.

We might not get a late 1st round pick for Savard if he doesn't repeat the performance of this season to date, but a late 2nd round pick might still be in the cards, and the weaker return may be worth it if it helps properly develop a few young Ds in the meantime.

Edmundson should be the D we shop around and Savard should only move if the offer is ridiculous (1st round pick and quality prospect).

If we get a return like we did for Toffoli, please, pay for shipping when moving out savard.

 

[Scriptor]

defensemen at deadline usually return premium value. Eddy I would trade this deadline. Savard another as we thin right side

I would design my team with a big mobile defense. Gives a team so many more options. They are hard to play against in playoffs. Especially for small or finesse scoring forwards. A great defense makes a good goalie a great goalie. They even make an average goalie a good goalie. I wouldn't have to pay or trade for top goalie. A great defense adds secondary scoring.

At draft '24, I would offer 3 or 4 of our core youth for one of top right defenseman in league. If I think team is close. That's how I roll. I gain Norris caliber right D. Plus I know I have 3 extra first coming in later drafts to replace them. I give up say top 10 pick in '24 draft, say Dach and prospect like Mesar. If defenseman is the piece I need. On right side I have the Norris D, then Barron my second pairing. Savard my third. Left side I have Guhle, Xhekaj and Hutson. I think that is hell good a defense.

Up front, my top 9 be, Caufield, Suzuki, Roy, Slaf, Dubois, our first pick this year, Barlow? Beck, Heinemann, our second first this year, Leonard? Evans is turning into a good 4th line center.

I find your vision of the future on D a little scary, Scorey.

I don't think that, for 2024-2025, Barron will be up to the task to be a 2nd pairing RHD and savard will be running out of gas in his last year of his current contract at age 34. IMO, he won't be mobile enough to cover for Hutson in his own zone, even if I appreciate the idea of having a veteran D to support Hutson in his first NHL season on a third pairing.

For a kick-ass D built in the style you did mention (big and mobile), with the exception of Hutson, due to his particular intangibles, including quarterbacking a PP, I think there are only two ways to go:

1) Pray that Mailloux pans out as a top-4 RHD 2024-2025 (not next year, the season after that - which is still very soon)

2) Get a young, veteran RHD on the UFA market (a Severson type, if it was this year, say) to complete the D-Corps.

Guhle - Young, Norris-Caliber RHD, as you say
Xhekaj - Mailloux (Xhekaj protects Mailloux defensively as mobile enough for big guy)
Hutson - Savard/Kovacevic (less minutes at even strength with big mobile D in top-4)

The top-4 could eat 45-50 minutes a night, IMO, limiting the 3rd pairing's TOI to prevent overexposing them against the opponents' best players, especially on the road. Personally, I'd go with 7 D on the road to protect Savard by alternating him with another D.

Hutson could even play as a winger on the 4th line for a few shifts while another D pairing is on the ice, followed by another D pairing while he rests forms next shift as a D.

If the Habs are going to win another Cup before I die, the D will need to be a cornerstone of that roster, that's for sure.

However, after years of Timmins only being good to great at drafting Ds, let's not panic now and overlook that a strong C-line is as important as a solid D-Corps.

Honestly, wingers are interchangeable if you have high quality Cs and a solid, puck-moving D-Corps that can add secondary scoring (not just complementary scoring).

My key is to go with the model we are seeing this season, from trial and error, with Dach on the 1st line.

What we have, in effect, is two natural Cs on the first line, and what that has created is a marked increase in % control of shot attempts, scoring opportunities and high danger scoring opportunities when that line is on the ice, VS sending that line out with a RW that is not a natural C.

It has demonstrated the distinct advantage of having a big-bodied, mobile winger that understands and can execute the defensive assignments of a C in his own zone, coupled with an offensive C. The C/RW can shield the C when he pushes hard on a scoring opportunity. Our C/RW can back check and take on the C's defensive role in our zone as that player trails behind on the back check. The permutation of positions can be organic and natural, returning to normal once everything has been set up in our zone.

A Caufield-Suzuki-Dach line would benefit from a kind of complementarity that would always enable Suzuki to be creative offensively, all while remaining solid defensively -- the ultimate shutdown, two-way line with distinctive offensive upside.

As nice as that is, we would need the same on a 2nd line. For that, the example used involves Montreal trading for, or signing Dubois as an UFA in the short term and drafting a blue chip C with out 1st round pick in 2023.

Dubois could handle the role of 2nd line C while the draft pick develops and matures into the position. Dubois, much like Dach, would then switch to the wing, only on the left side (LW). That line would now have the same benefits that the Suzuki line has, interchangeable Cs taking care of the defensive assignments in our own zone depending on whom will make it back first on the back check, allowing the other to concentrate on offense in the O-Zone as the play develops.

And, for a complete trifecta with out top-9, why not apply the same formula with Beck as the main pivot, but another winger who is also a natural C, Sean Farrell, who has shown he can play well defensively, even being a strong PKer? However, the depth on wing might push Farrell down to the 4th line...

Dubois (C/LW) - BedardFantilli/Carlsson/Dvorsky (C) -
Suzuki (C) - Dach (C/RW)
Farrell(C/LW) - Beck (C) -

Wingers abound, already, within the system, that could occupy the open seats on the three lines that make up our top-9:

- Caufield is a lock for the Suzuki line, IMO

- Slafkovsky will definitely evolve into a top-9 option, whether it is on the Dubois line on his offside, or on the Beck line.

- Mesar is another wild card with top-6 upside, but he could end up partnering with his good buddy Slafkovsky on a premiere third line.

- Roy has the potential to complete the other top-6 line, whether it becomes our 1st line (depends on the C we draft) or our 2nd line, but would likely end up filling a third line because of the depth ahead of him on the roster.

- Heineman could play with Farrell, bringing speed, physicality, defensive acumen and goal-scoring upside all at the same time.

- Anderson would be an option for the third line as well, but I suspect that his 5.5M would need to be shipped out at some point to make room for all the other good players on the roster.

Dubois (C/LW) - BedardFantilli/Carlsson/Dvorsky (C) - Roy (RW, left shot)
Caufield (LW, right shot) Suzuki (C) - Dach (C/RW)
Farrell(C/LW) - Beck (C) - Heineman (RW, left shot)

-OR-

Dubois (C/LW) - BedardFantilli/Carlsson/Dvorsky (C) - Roy (RW, left shot)
Caufield (LW, right shot) - Suzuki (C) - Dach (C/RW)
Slafkovsky (LW) - Beck (C) - Mesar (RW)
Farrell (C/LW) - Evans (C) - Heineman (RW, left shot)

There are so many options with the upcoming draft picks and the developing talent already in the system. It just gets better, increasing talented depth on the depth chart if we can acquire Dubois as well.

If we end up drafting Dvorsky with a 6th or 7th OA pick, for example, the desire to reunite a line of Slafkovsky - Dvorsky - Mesar will unlikely surface and that could lead to a different outlook up front with a shutdown 2nd line and an offensive exploitation 3rd line instead:

Caufield (LW, right shot) - Suzuki (C) - Dach (C/RW)
Dubois (C/LW) - Beck(C) - Roy (RW, left shot)
Slafkovsky (LW) - Dvorsky (C) - Mesar (RW)
Farrell (C/LW) - Evans (C) - Heineman (RW, left shot)

IMO, the future is bright for the top-9, at least, if we draft a bluechip C in 2023 and somehow acquire Dubois in the short term.

Caufield is a lock as one of the natural wingers for the top-6 and odds that one of Slafkovsky, Mesar, Roy, Farrell or Heineman don't pan out as the other natural winger ar slim to none, IMHO.

Two of the remaining four wingers (whichever) would then undoubtedly become above average 3rd line wingers and the rest could iron out the roster on the 4th line.

The Forward corps would also have incredible depth at C and be almost bullet proof when it comes to injuries, with replacement pivots being equal to the tasks asked of them rather than make-do fillers while we wait for the return of substantially better Cs once they have healed.

The D-Corps, especially on the right side, is the real question mark.

That and keeping all this talent on a budget.

 

[jfm133]

Francis Bouillon ranks Logan Mailloux as the Habs' best prospect, with Joshua Roy at #2. He is praising the kid a lot.

Voué à un bel avenir | Francis Bouillon voit gros pour Logan Mailloux

Selon l'ancien défenseur, Logan Mailloux, semble véritablement voué à être la prochaine jeune sensation à percer l alignement du Tricolore.

www.985fm.ca

 

[Sterling Archer]

Francis Bouillon ranks Logan Mailloux as the Habs' best prospect, with Joshua Roy at #2. He is praising the kid a lot.

Voué à un bel avenir | Francis Bouillon voit gros pour Logan Mailloux

Selon l'ancien défenseur, Logan Mailloux, semble véritablement voué à être la prochaine jeune sensation à percer l alignement du Tricolore.

www.985fm.ca

Agreed.

 

[26Mats]

Francis Bouillon ranks Logan Mailloux as the Habs' best prospect, with Joshua Roy at #2. He is praising the kid a lot.

Voué à un bel avenir | Francis Bouillon voit gros pour Logan Mailloux

Selon l'ancien défenseur, Logan Mailloux, semble véritablement voué à être la prochaine jeune sensation à percer l alignement du Tricolore.

www.985fm.ca

Once Mailloux is ready we can move out all the vets for futures:

Guhle - Mailloux
Xhekaj - Barron
Harris - Kovacevic
Struble, Hutson, Engstrom developing in Laval.

 

[jfm133]

Don't forget Trudeau. He is still a long shot, but he is doing well in Laval at just 20. Hutson is not in the picture until he shows that he is big and strong enough to play a complete game in the NHL. We know he has the talent, but unfortunately, physical growth is out of his control. Habs gambled that he would grow, he did, but 3/4 of an inch is not enough.

 

[SlafySZN]

Francis Bouillon ranks Logan Mailloux as the Habs' best prospect, with Joshua Roy at #2. He is praising the kid a lot.

Voué à un bel avenir | Francis Bouillon voit gros pour Logan Mailloux

Selon l'ancien défenseur, Logan Mailloux, semble véritablement voué à être la prochaine jeune sensation à percer l alignement du Tricolore.

www.985fm.ca

Scary that’s the opinion of someone in the organisation.

 

[26Mats]

Scary that’s the opinion of someone in the organisation.

How so?

 

[SlafySZN]

Don't forget Trudeau. He is still a long shot, but he is doing well in Laval at just 20. Hutson is not in the picture until he shows that he is big and strong enough to play a complete game in the NHL. We know he has the talent, but unfortunately, physical growth is out of his control. Habs gambled that he would grow, he did, but 3/4 of an inch is not enough.

Mailloux is ‘big and strong’ but still can’t play a complete game, even less at the NHL level at this point.

How so?

I don’t think both are the habs best prospects, my opinion!

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

Mailloux is one of the main reasons we'll need a better development coach in the AHL as soon as possible.

He has the skills to be an effective player in the NHL, but he'll need someone to work with to help put everything together and improve on his weaknesses.. not someone who will sit him for veterans if he makes mistakes.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

Mailloux is ‘big and strong’ but still can’t play a complete game, even less at the NHL level at this point.


I don’t think both are the habs best prospects, my opinion!

There's all kind of NHL defensemen that can't play a "complete game" at the NHL level. You can teach defense, but you can't teach offense. Mailloux has all the tools to be a very well rounded defenseman, but even if he turns out to be a more one dimensional offensive type with good size, he'll still have a role here, likely paired up with a more defensively sound partner.

 

[Gainesvillain]

Mailloux is ‘big and strong’ but still can’t play a complete game, even less at the NHL level at this point.

I don't think Dale Hunter agrees with you re: "complete game" at this point. I don't think Mailloux could step into the NHL seamlessly right now, but all facets of his game are rounding into shape.

Nice 3 point +3 night against Owen Sound tonight. (edit: +4)

I think Bonk has a higher upside than either of these players and I think there will be no shortage of teams who will be in agreement with this assessment. It would not surprise me if Bonk goes in the top 20. Bonk has size, sufficient levels of mobility and physicality, displays some offensive flair, can log big minutes, shows a high compete level and comes with a good pedigree. Bottom line, he’s not falling to the second round.

Strongly agree with this the more I watch Bonk. He's already sneaking inside the first round on a lot of draft lists and his progression has been such that I think he'll end up +/- 20th on Mackenzie's list by draft day. Bonk could be a real beauty - all the tools and a high IQ.

This draft is shaping up to have one hell of a strong first round.

 

[Treb]

Francis Bouillon ranks Logan Mailloux as the Habs' best prospect, with Joshua Roy at #2. He is praising the kid a lot.

Voué à un bel avenir | Francis Bouillon voit gros pour Logan Mailloux

Selon l'ancien défenseur, Logan Mailloux, semble véritablement voué à être la prochaine jeune sensation à percer l alignement du Tricolore.

www.985fm.ca

98.5 can't even get the facts right, Mailloux was drafted two years ago.

His year would be relatively exciting as a D+1, but as a D+2 he is behind.

Next year is going to be a big one whether he stays in the OHL or goes up in the AHL.

 

[jfm133]

So many forget that Mailloux played only 48 games in the OHL at this point. So much for the freakin "development" obsession we often see here. 48 games in the OHL and he is almost 20 and one point per game. Imagine a normal junior career with 200 games in the OHL. He will make it up because the talent is clearly there. Also give me a break with changing coaches in Laval. They went to the semi-finals last year and now they win with a depleted team. Barron went well there this year, and now Trudeau is also improving at just 20.

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So Guhle was behind last year because he was one point per game like Mailluox this year.

98.5 can't even get the facts right, Mailloux was drafted two years ago.

His year would be relatively exciting as a D+1, but as a D+2 he is behind.

Next year is going to be a big one whether he stays in the OHL or goes up in the AHL.

 

[Treb]

So many forget that Mailloux played only 48 games in the OHL at this point. So much for the freakin "development" obsession we often see here. 48 games in the OHL and he is almost 20 and one point per game. Imagine a normal junior career with 200 games in the OHL. He will make it up because the talent is clearly there. Also give me a break with changing coaches in Laval. They went to the semi-finals last year and now they win with a depleted team. Barron went well there this year, and now Trudeau is also improving at just 20.

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So Guhle was behind last year because he was one point per game like Mailluox this year.

1. Guhle is miles better defensively. The fact you think it was a relevant example tells a lot.

2. His lack of development time is definitely a concern. You often can't just catch up. You're shouting about what ifs, but they didn't happen so they aren't relevant. We're not evaluating potential in a potential environment. We are talking about actual development which has been lacking in his case.

3. I did not mention coaches in this thread AFAIK, so WTF you're on going about?

4. Again, Trudeau and Barron have nothing to do with Mailloux, neither do they have a similar path to Mailloux.