Speculation: Lias Andersson asks for a trade - Part II

[Kakko Schmakko]

I think we need to pump the breaks a tad on trying to decipher what the problem is, based on Andersson’s comments or a translation of said comments.

We’re drifting toward that slippery slope again where a lot can be misconstrued or taken in complicated directions.

as fans don't we have the right to know what the issue is? it will eventually come out, so they all need to man up and tell their sides of the story.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

So very VERY sorry. That’s awful

What is awful?

 

[Synergy27]

I don't want him anywhere near this team ever again. His trade value is in the sub-basement. If he has substance abuse issues or is a danger to himself because of his mental health he should be in rehab not at a hockey game in Sweeden. This entire episode screams of a self-centered, self-entitled brat not getting what he wants. To be fair I do think the Rangers mishandled him, but Lias is ultimately responsible for himself and his actions.

This is my gut reaction as well. Rich kid not worried about throwing away millions because he’ll be ok no matter what, also not willing to put in the work to actually be what he thinks he already is. Hard to see the path to reconciliation from here.

 

[Edge]

as fans don't we have the right to know what the issue is? it will eventually come out, so they all need to man up and tell their sides of the story.

I’m going to side step the whole right aspect of the question, because last time it led to a small thesis paper in the Zibanejad thread.

But that aside, I think we have to be very careful about putting our own slants on things or going too far down the rabbit hole of speculation. That approach doesn’t put us any closer to answers and is far more likely to go down a less productive path.

Already we are debating mental health, addiction issues and other topics, none of which could be close to the actual situation. It’s a slippery slope.

 

[bleedblue94]

Honestly, it’s not clear. He made some comments about not being good mentally in an interview. Some have taken that to mean “mental health”, but it could also just mean “not in a good headspace.” Really hard to tell (based on the translations, anyway).

Thank you. I figured it best to ask than to assume based on the responses, not that anyone has jumped to any conclusions already.

 

[Inferno]

Every single person on this message board categorically has mental problems.

We're fans of the new York Rangers....and we talk about it. Every day. For decades.

I've been posting with @Kovalev27 , @Leetch3 and @jas for at least 15 years now.


Jesus.

 

[Edge]

Every single person on this message board categorically has mental problems.

We're fans of the new York Rangers....and we talk about it. Every day. For decades.

I've been posting with @Kovalev27 , @Leetch3 and @jas for at least 15 years now.


Jesus.

Still rookies.

 

[Baby Punisher]

I’m going to side step the whole right aspect of the question, because last time it led to a small thesis paper in the Zibanejad thread.

But that aside, I think we have to be very careful about putting our own slants on things or going too far down the rabbit hole of speculation. That approach doesn’t put us any closer to answers and is far more likely to go down a less productive path.

Already we are debating mental health, addiction issues and other topics, none of which could be close to the actual situation. It’s a slippery slope.

Anderson brought the mental health aspect to the conversation when he was quoted as saying he has mental health issues. His quotes are fair game to be picked apart and analyzed until he clarifies his statements.

 

[Dijock94]

I thought he said that a few incidents caused a decline in his mental health. I don’t want to assume anything but that has to either be incidents he cause or the organization caused, but judging from his actions I would think the organization did something to break this kid.

 

[JCProdigy]

Still rookies.

Pfft...they don't know mental illness. I and others remember your articles on the future of Jaime Lundmark and Pavel Brendl (and player ratings..he's a 8c not a 7A), watched this board fall into the despair of negativity pre lock out, left, and then came back to posting on this messed up forum just as the Rangers entered another rebuild. That my friends is real mental illness.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

All of Lias Andersson 2019 highlights:

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Did he kill his trade value on purpose so that the Rangers are left with only option to revive his value to loan him to SHL team?

 

[Rempe73]

If it’s really mental illness, then that needs to be taken seriously. Health above hockey. I’m no victim, but I’ve been struggling with mental illness and addiction for a while, and it can ruin your life. At the very least, it makes you lose interest in many things. Might explain why Andersson seems to have stalled in development. But this is just speculation. I hope he’s doing alright and I sympathize/empathize (not sure which one it is) with whatever he may be going through. Maybe I was too hard on him. He’s still young.

 

[NuxFan09]

I'm sorry to hear about this situation, guys. It was a bit of an odd pick at 7 but I figured the Rangers had a good reason for it (which they likely did).

I've familiarized myself with the situation recently, but what about the beginning? Was Lias stuck on the 4th line because he wasn't producing offensively or was it the other way around? Was he not producing because he was stuck on the 4th line? It doesn't look like he was producing well in the AHL either so I wonder why he got called up and wasn't left there to patiently develop.

 

[Rempe73]

I'm sorry to hear about this situation, guys. It was a bit of an odd pick at 7 but I figured the Rangers had a good reason for it (which they likely did).

I've familiarized myself with the situation recently, but what about the beginning? Was Lias stuck on the 4th line because he wasn't producing offensively or was it the other way around? Was he not producing because he was stuck on the 4th line? It doesn't look like he was producing well in the AHL either so I wonder why he got called up and wasn't left there to patiently develop.

Little bit of both. His line mates were producing more. I was one of his biggest critics, but it’s a situation that I blame both him and the coach for. Should the coach have put him on a higher line or with different (aka better) players? Yes. I think he earned the shot after a strong preseason. Did Lias do anything at all to force Quinn’s hand to move him up? No.

 

[Baby Punisher]

Maybe Rangers found out he has some disease/disorder/genetic issue that he purposefully hid from everybody?

According to the AMA Being a selfish A-hole isn't a recognized medical disorder.

 

[SixGoalieSystem]

as fans don't we have the right to know what the issue is? it will eventually come out, so they all need to man up and tell their sides of the story.

Why would we?

 

[Ola]

A few observations, based on the recent information:

*The comments on mental health comes a bit from the perspective of 'it may suck for my hockey career, but there are other things to care about like mental health'. Its a bit ambiguous, but the closest assumption seems to be that its not a mental "illness".

*Like I've said from the get go, there is more to this than Lias just not showing up for practice one day while his agent was calling Jeff to request a trade. There have obviously been some triggering event/clash.

*Loss of confidence from the player towards the organization is obviously a factor -- the factor -- for the player (warranted or unwarranted ). People 'in the know' on this side of the pond, who surely are getting their information (correct or incorrect) from the player's sphere, is just shaking their heads at what is deemed incompetence. One example from a guy that talks to Lias' dad frequently: "Learn from Lias Anderssson .... Never let a NHL team decide your development".

*It is felt that the AHL/Hartford is a worthless place to develop at, and that Lias was brought to the NHL way to soon thanks to his draft position while he should have been in the SHL and developed instead (Lias nära att ge upp efter beskedet i vintras).

*There have been a relationship between the DQ/Lias were the coach have tried to break down the player's expectations and ambitions to build him up again in line with how the coach sees the player that hasn't landed well with the player. The player have wanted to take the long road while the organization/coach have tried to shot that down to get the player to realize that he is what he is.

*He is currently not fit to play, and is recovering from a lower back injury and a broken bone, in an undisclosed location/that hasn't been taken care of and that Lias don't quit know what it is. I can only assume that the broken bone is a finger or rib, I've not heard of that a broken bone elsewhere isn't taken care of. But if its a finger/rib it will heal by itself.

*The above is all the one-sided picture. There are always two sides of these things.

 

[nyr2k2]

I'm sorry to hear about this situation, guys. It was a bit of an odd pick at 7 but I figured the Rangers had a good reason for it (which they likely did).

I've familiarized myself with the situation recently, but what about the beginning? Was Lias stuck on the 4th line because he wasn't producing offensively or was it the other way around? Was he not producing because he was stuck on the 4th line? It doesn't look like he was producing well in the AHL either so I wonder why he got called up and wasn't left there to patiently develop.

The question about his production and the fourth line is entirely dependent on who you ask. There's a bitter division on that subject here.

 

[Rangers ftw]

Reading the article it seems to be me it has something to do with his relation to Quinn or someone else within the organization.

“During the past year, a number of hockey coaches were allowed to leave their clubs in the NHL. Among other things, Mike Babcock from the Toronto Maple Leafs was fired after bullying stories emerged.
Has it been anything like that for you, Lias - that you were bullied?
- I don't know what to say or what to answer. It's been tough, that's it. I will tell you when the time is right.”

“- Dad understood why I went home - and I think more people will. I've talked to my friends, my family, agents. They really understand why I went home. It feels safe, says Lias.
- When you don't know the whole truth, it can look like a fool's decision. But I'm not a spoiled brat who complains about not being granted to play hockey for the New York Rangers. That's not the thing. There are other factors.”

 

[Ola]

I'm sorry to hear about this situation, guys. It was a bit of an odd pick at 7 but I figured the Rangers had a good reason for it (which they likely did).

I've familiarized myself with the situation recently, but what about the beginning? Was Lias stuck on the 4th line because he wasn't producing offensively or was it the other way around? Was he not producing because he was stuck on the 4th line? It doesn't look like he was producing well in the AHL either so I wonder why he got called up and wasn't left there to patiently develop.

I think a big problem from the get-go was lack of know-how in the organization. Remember that Lias was our first 1st round pick in five years. And that doesn't tell the whole story, before that our last pick was a project from College in Brady Skjei. The hockey world changes. Lias won the SHL his draft year, then had to travel across the Atlantic five times during the summer to combine/draft, rookie camp, WJSS, Traverse and what not. The NYR brass were furious at the performance at the Traverse Tournament, were Lias obviously had zero gas left in the tank. Right before the Traverse Tournament had been played, I commented on it during the WJSS that Lias went to the bench ASAP and took like 20 sec shifts because he obviously was gassed. I think this was were things started to go wrong. At that point he had played well over a game every third day the last 12 months, the schedule had just been crazy (its not a joke, he probably got the world record for hockey games played during a 12 month period during this stint).

Then Lias returned to the SHL and played for Frölunda, but NYR yanked him against his will to return to the AHL instead after the WJC. Its quite obvious that this aggravated the situation since the player felt that the developmental conditions in AHL held stone-aged standards compared to what he was used to in the SHL. Remember that this was before the last overhaul attempt of HFD that was launched late this summer and that NYR at the time had one of the worst farm systems in the league that had been totally neglected for a long long time. All individual situations are unique, but there are roughly 50 Swedes in the AHL, a ton of Finns, Czechs, and other European players in the AHL. Some stay a number of years, others are short lived. But most of the time a European player go to NA, that for example is a long-shot, they say that they will give it a few years and also does that. But nobody have wanted to spend any time whatsoever in HFD for a long long time. Its not just Lias Andersson and Kravtsov that has wanted to bolt from HFD ASAP the last months, before that you have a bunch of guys like Calle Andersson, Petr Zamorsky, Mikael Lindqvist, Kovac, Stromwall and the likes that planned to go to NA for a few years but that couldn't get away from HFD fast enough once they got there. I think we were all shocked when Ville Meskanen played more than one season in the AHL (he bolted after 20 games in y2).

Today I am certain that nobody in this organization would approach player development like we did 2-3 years ago. At that time the brass just had zero experience of the conditions a highly touted young kid has today. Like we didn't loan Kaapo Kakko to the Finish WJSS team, or let him play with TPS during pre-season and in the CHL and so forth. Kakko didn't even participate at the Combine. But I just don't think we had much know-how in the organization 2-3 years ago. Remember that Slats staffed the organization with friends and family, old agents without hockey background, GM's from the 80s. Then when Gorton took over, he just brought in totally green ex players to ensure that we didn't get anyone that potentially could undercut him. Gorton is competent but only has 24 hours per day to work with and have had a ton of work with the NHL team. When the NYR hires a president it brings in a TV guy with a sweet voice, not someone that has actually accomplished anything anywhere.

I do think the intentions are the rights one in the Organization, but its been a messy situation. In this, its important to remember that Lias has big issues with his skating and have had that from day 1. He hasn't been easy to handle/develop.

 

[Edge]

Anderson brought the mental health aspect to the conversation when he was quoted as saying he has mental health issues. His quotes are fair game to be picked apart and analyzed until he clarifies his statements.

The translation of his comments went that route, but remained somewhat vague. And as we’ve seen, speculating on mental illness and whether it’s real or not is not truly “fair game” and it leads to exactly the type of responses we’ve seen on here — many of which have been delayed because of their heinous nature.

And there is a very distinct line between analyzation and throwing shit against the wall to see if it sticks. Again it’s a very slippery slope.

 

[LORDE]

What is awful?

Post I was quoting?

 

[TheDirtyH]

The translation of his comments went that route, but remained somewhat vague. And as we’ve seen, speculating on mental illness and whether it’s real or not is not truly “fair game” and it leads to exactly the type of responses we’ve seen on here — many of which have been delayed because of their heinous nature.

And there is a very distinct line between analyzation and throwing **** against the wall to see if it sticks.

I tried to say this pages ago: This is why the 'behind the scenes' speculation is ridiculous. Everyone's a psychologist when armed with a little free time and a few internet links. All we know as fans is what we actually see: a player who never played that well, and a player who was never given any meaningful opportunities and was held to a different standard then others.

The pages of grocery-store-tabloid level theorization is really frustrating. Embarrassing, tbh.

 

[Edge]

I tried to say this pages ago: This is why the 'behind the scenes' speculation is ridiculous. Everyone's a psychologist when armed with a little free time and a few internet links. All we know as fans is what we actually see: a player who never played that well, and a player who was never given any meaningful opportunities and was held to a different standard then others.

The pages of grocery-store-tabloid level theorization is really frustrating. Embarrassing, tbh.

Agreed.

And I think there’s a distinction between acknowledging that he said he was hurt and not in a good place mentality. I think there’s leeway to debate that.

And then there’s some of the other stuff, which was removed for a reason, and thus will not and should not be repeated.