Blue Jays Discussion: Let the post-winter-meeting, pre-spring-training baseball withdrawl commence!

[LaCarriere]

Good job Atkins diet.... you acquired a pitcher that was designated for assignment from the A's out of all people. The place that makes garbage pitchers into something!!!

Way to go....what a GM. LMAO

So a minor league player for pocket change and some scrub minor league player to be named later.

Get out the tissue box.

 

[Discoverer]

hate to complain about waiver pick ups but they've been an especially uninteresting group of pickups so far this year. no guys like cola or hendriks or hynes with great AAA numbers to pique interest.

Do you mean all the minor-league deals too? The only actual waiver claim so far has been Junior Lake, and I think he's really interesting as a potential depth outfielder/platoon bat.

 

[zeke]

yeah i like lake. true.

 

[The Nemesis]

So a minor league player for pocket change and some scrub minor league player to be named later.

Get out the tissue box.

While Atkins was on the phone hammering out that trade, the Nationals were trying to phone him to offer Storen and Strasburg for Scott Copeland. But they got a busy signal and changed their mind.

 

[LaCarriere]

While Atkins was on the phone hammering out that trade, the Nationals were trying to phone him to offer Storen and Strasburg for Scott Copeland. But they got a busy signal and changed their mind.

I heard that Atkins just flat out refused that trade yesterday. Rumor was he wanted Bryce Harper included as well.

 

[Kurtz]

We're on our third managing regime, and still a great bulk of our transactions are with the A's.

 

[Kurtz]

I heard that Atkins just flat out refused that trade yesterday. Rumor was he wanted Bryce Harper included as well.

Legit question: Nationals call us and offer Storen for Copeland and a prospect outside of our top 10. Do you think the Jays do it?

 

[The Nemesis]

Legit question: Nationals call us and offer Storen for Copeland and a prospect outside of our top 10. Do you think the Jays do it?

Absolutely. No reason not to. Not gonna happen though because the market is such that Storen likely has far more value than a replaceable AAA depth arm and a likely non-impact prospect.

 

[JS19]

Ha... remember the "release Cecil" talk? Good times.

There were clowns who wanted Cecil gone? Wtf?

 

[Discoverer]

yeah i like lake. true.

The only minor moves I like a lot so far are Lake, Biagini, and maybe Hernandez. Having said that, the only ones I remember liking a lot at this point last year were Colabello and... maybe West? I doubt it's all that common that teams have more than one or two particularly interesting/exciting minor moves in a given offseason.

 

[zeke]

lots of interesting guys last year iirc.

relatively young guys with some real mlb success on their resume like smoak, barton, viciedo, dirks, carrera, doubront.

guys with some excellent aaa numbers like cola, hendriks, hynes, rasmussen.

and then some loud tools guys like west and schultz.

that was on top of the vet retreads like francis santiago dickerson etc.

 

[zeke]

on that note i also like our kotchman pickup this year.

 

[BlueForever]

But you also included Buehrle as a loss, who wasn't on the ALCS roster.

Yes I did so we replaced him with Happ. Im ok with that. But who replaced Price to at least make us just as good and competitive in our rotation? Chavez?

Who replaced Navarro?

Who replaced Lowe and Hawkins in the bullpen?

Nobody.....

The blame here is placed on Rogers and the men they chose to be their puppets (****iro, Atkins Diet)

All they are good for is purging, as their nick names prove.

 

[BlueForever]

You need to pull your head out of the sand and stop thinking negatively. This team is never going to spend 200M so stop. It's not going to spend 175M in the foreseeable future. This team has all tools to get back into the playoffs, and that's all you need to do, because it's a complete roll of the dice after that.

Lost - Price (1/3 season), Buehrle. Lesser losses in a backup catcher, a bench player and 2 relievers.

Added - Stroman (full season), Tulo (1/3 season to full season), Revere (1/3 season to full season) Happ, Chavez

They have the potential to be even better than a 93 win team since they have Stroman for a full season who you can look at replacing the 1/3 season of Price (slight downgrade but not huge), and they have Tulo for a full season instead of 1/3. They have Revere for a full season instead of 1/3.

As for pitching, Stroman / Dickey / Estrada / Happ / Chavez-Hutch compared to what they had going into last season is an upgrade.

The only place they are arguably weaker heading into this season is the bullpen, and I don't know what your calendar says, but mine says January 5th. April isn't here yet bud.

Listen in the end I am not saying you are wrong. Technically speaking we are a better team than we started with last season. You are right.

But are we a better team that ended last season that wasn't good enough to make it to the World Series let alone win it? This is where my head is fully out of the sand and yours along with most others is planted thoroughly in the depths of a desert.

In the end no one is saying that this team needs to spend 200 million to be competitive or at least as good as what they were in the ALCS. Their payroll is at 140 million, 160 gains the team a top of the rotation starter to pair with Stroman who in my eyes is the future of this pitching staff but not yet ready to be the ace. You could have easily signed Samardjza (sp?) or Kazmir to at least off set the loss of price and would be a better number 2 then Estrada. And with the extra 4-5 million of the 20 million bump you could have signed a strong arm for the bullpen.

This is all I am trying to say here. I am all for not trading anymore young assets, but I am ok with ownership putting up a little more money then past seasons to keep the train moving along in the right direction. They failed fans and the team by tightening the purse strings when things were looking so good.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Yes I did so we replaced him with Happ. Im ok with that. But who replaced Price to at least make us just as good and competitive in our rotation? Chavez?

Who replaced Navarro?

Who replaced Lowe and Hawkins in the bullpen?

Nobody.....

The blame here is placed on Rogers and the men they chose to be their puppets (****iro, Atkins Diet)

All they are good for is purging, as their nick names prove.

Top ten reliever in baseball, Brett Cecil.

 

[Bjindaho]

Yes I did so we replaced him with Happ. Im ok with that. But who replaced Price to at least make us just as good and competitive in our rotation? Chavez?

Who replaced Navarro?

Who replaced Lowe and Hawkins in the bullpen?

Nobody.....

The blame here is placed on Rogers and the men they chose to be their puppets (****iro, Atkins Diet)

All they are good for is purging, as their nick names prove.

Price is the biggest loss here.

Thole replaces Navarro. Personally, I consider that an upgrade because while Thole is worse than Navarro, they had similar defense with Navarro catching Estrada and Thole catching Dickey (Thole as a backup means that Martin doesn't get beat up by the knuckler).

The bullpen is the area that bothers me the most. It is arguably the cheapest spot to fix (with none of the Storen/Papeldouche crap) because you can amass a bunch of hard throwers and likely have some combination that will make up a decent pen.

 

[theaub]

4/72 for Gordon apparently

That's a pretty solid deal for KC

 

[Discoverer]

Yes I did so we replaced him with Happ. Im ok with that. But who replaced Price to at least make us just as good and competitive in our rotation? Chavez?

In my quote I said from the last out of the ALCS.

Adding Stroman does nothing. It wasn't good enough to win the ALCS with Price was it??

Good lord. If you're talking about the ALCS roster, then Buehrle is not a loss because he wasn't on that team. The playoff roster included Price, Stroman, Dickey and Estrada as starters. From that group, they've lost Price and added Happ, Chavez and Hutchison.

Seriously... you don't have to be right about everything, but if you're going to make an argument, you can't just pick and choose when it does and doesn't apply.

 

[Discoverer]

4/72 for Gordon apparently

That's a pretty solid deal for KC

Yeah, that looks like a really nice deal. It's pretty rare that a team doesn't overpay in either term or money in free agency.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

4/72 for Gordon apparently

That's a pretty solid deal for KC

Very good deal. Do have to wonder how they'll choose to address their rotation.

Also, using the very strange "what they've lost and not replaced since the ALCS" theorem (also known as the "chaos theory"), they've lost Cueto, Zobrist, Madson, Blanton and have not replaced them.

 

[Discoverer]

Very good deal. Do have to wonder how they'll choose to address their rotation.

Also, using the very strange "what they've lost and not replaced since the ALCS" theorem (also known as the "chaos theory"), they've lost Cueto, Zobrist, Madson, Blanton and have not replaced them.

Yeah, that analytical technique makes this move the equivalent of the Estrada signing.

 

[mikeyz]

Or he figured that he had nothing to lose, that his job might be in jeopardy if the Jays didn't make tangible gains in their on-field results. It's easy to "have balls" if you figure that you you're in a no-lose situation (the moves work and the team succeeds and you look like a genius. Or the moves fail, you get canned, and the next guy has to be the one to deal with the fallout of dealing away so many significant prospects for high-priced veterans or rentals .

You hit the nail right on the head with this.

Very well said.

 

[BlueForever]

Good lord. If you're talking about the ALCS roster, then Buehrle is not a loss because he wasn't on that team. The playoff roster included Price, Stroman, Dickey and Estrada as starters. From that group, they've lost Price and added Happ, Chavez and Hutchison.

Seriously... you don't have to be right about everything, but if you're going to make an argument, you can't just pick and choose when it does and doesn't apply.

So Happ, Chavez and Hutch = Price

I got you!!!

Ok lets decide here whats better:

a) Price, Stroman, Estrada, Dickey, Hutch with Chavez depth

b) Stroman, Estrada, Happ, Dickey, Hutch with Chavez as depth

c) Kazmir/Samardja, Stroman, Estrada, Happ, Dickey with Hutch and Chavez as depth

If the answer is "C" then you can make an argument that an extra 20 million in payroll would have made our team much better and money well spent when it came to our rotation. Im not angry with not signing Price. I am angry that they are satisfied with what they got when they shouldn't be. And 20 million to Rogers is like $100 to a regular blue collar worker. Cause in the end gate revenue, concessions, TV numbers, and playoff revenue would make it up.

What they are going to do, and then we will all be crying later is exactly what AA did. Trade the farm away for a playoff drive when prices are higher to acquire talent. To me that's dumb. And stupid. And fiscally irresponsible.

 

[BlueForever]

Yeah, that analytical technique makes this move the equivalent of the Estrada signing.

KC will be just as crap as the Jays this season. Difference is they have captured the prize. We will be waiting another 20 years for a playoff appearance.

KC too have dropped the ball

 

[Discoverer]

So Happ, Chavez and Hutch = Price

I got you!!!

Ok lets decide here whats better:

a) Price, Stroman, Estrada, Dickey, Hutch with Chavez depth

b) Stroman, Estrada, Happ, Dickey, Hutch with Chavez as depth

c) Kazmir/Samardja, Stroman, Estrada, Happ, Dickey with Hutch and Chavez as depth

If the answer is "C" then you can make an argument that an extra 20 million in payroll would have made our team much better and money well spent when it came to our rotation. Im not angry with not signing Price. I am angry that they are satisfied with what they got when they shouldn't be. And 20 million to Rogers is like $100 to a regular blue collar worker. Cause in the end gate revenue, concessions, TV numbers, and playoff revenue would make it up.

What they are going to do, and then we will all be crying later is exactly what AA did. Trade the farm away for a playoff drive when prices are higher to acquire talent. To me that's dumb. And stupid. And fiscally irresponsible.

Again, I don't think you actually know what you're mad about. You started off moaning and complaining about Shapiro and Atkins, and now all of a sudden you're upset that the team isn't spending enough money.

If you want to complain about the way the money is being spent, then sure, that's on Shapiro and Atkins (although it's mostly on AA).

If you want to complain about the amount of money being spent, that's on Rogers.

It sounds like you're just mad at everyone and looking to justify your frustration.