Blue Jays Discussion: Let the post-winter-meeting, pre-spring-training baseball withdrawl commence!
- Thread starter The Nemesis
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use the force
Kurtz
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- Jul 17, 2005
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Keeping with their m.o. of prioritizing the pen, their first significant move was replacing Madson with Soria.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
Edgar Martinez also got the shaft. I get it. DH, derpa derp, not a "face of the game" and all that. But put aside the fact that he spent his career in Seattle and recognize that for basically his entire career he was one of the very best hitters in baseball.
from 1990 to 2000, and among players who played regularly enough to have 5000 PAs (enough to average about 3 PAs per game played by your team for the entirety of that 11-year run):
BA: .322 (2nd to only Tony Gwynn)
OBP: .430 (3rd to only Frank Thomas and Barrold Bonds)
SLG: .537 (9th, trailing McGwire, Bonds, Griffey, Thomas, Albert Belle, Juan Gonzalez, Larry Walker, and Jeff Bagwell.)
OPS: .966 (5th behind Bonds, McGwire, Thomas, and Bagwell)
BB%: 15.2% (tied for 6th with Bagwell, trailing McGwire, Bonds, Ricky Henderson, Thomas, and Tony Phillips)
K%: 12.8% (27th, but only 3 guys ahead of him showed anywhere near as much power as he did: Bonds, Thomas, and Rafael Palmeiro)
wOBA: .420 (4th behind Bonds, Thomas, McGwire)
wRC+: 154 (5th behind Bonds, McGwire, Thomas, Bagwell)
WAR: 55.6 (5th behind Bonds, Griffey, Bagwell, Thomas. And consider that except for Thomas, the other 3 all get positional defence boosts. Martinez' is all from his bat and the heavy negative positional adjustment that being a DH gets.)
For comparison, using wRC+ (because I like it), there have been only 10 seasons (single seasons) in Toronto Blue Jays history in which a player's offensive output equalled what Edgar Martinez averaged between 1990 and 2000: Joey Bats in 2010, 2011, and 2014, Fred McGriff in 1988, 89, and 90, Carlos Delgado in 2000 and 2003, John Olerud in 1993, and Josh Donaldson last year.
So imagine a guy as offensively effective as Josh Donaldson was last year, only he does it year in and year out for 11 straight years. That is what Edgar Martinez was in his prime. And that still cuts out that he had some damn fine seasons right up until the end in 2004.
from 1990 to 2000, and among players who played regularly enough to have 5000 PAs (enough to average about 3 PAs per game played by your team for the entirety of that 11-year run):
BA: .322 (2nd to only Tony Gwynn)
OBP: .430 (3rd to only Frank Thomas and Barrold Bonds)
SLG: .537 (9th, trailing McGwire, Bonds, Griffey, Thomas, Albert Belle, Juan Gonzalez, Larry Walker, and Jeff Bagwell.)
OPS: .966 (5th behind Bonds, McGwire, Thomas, and Bagwell)
BB%: 15.2% (tied for 6th with Bagwell, trailing McGwire, Bonds, Ricky Henderson, Thomas, and Tony Phillips)
K%: 12.8% (27th, but only 3 guys ahead of him showed anywhere near as much power as he did: Bonds, Thomas, and Rafael Palmeiro)
wOBA: .420 (4th behind Bonds, Thomas, McGwire)
wRC+: 154 (5th behind Bonds, McGwire, Thomas, Bagwell)
WAR: 55.6 (5th behind Bonds, Griffey, Bagwell, Thomas. And consider that except for Thomas, the other 3 all get positional defence boosts. Martinez' is all from his bat and the heavy negative positional adjustment that being a DH gets.)
For comparison, using wRC+ (because I like it), there have been only 10 seasons (single seasons) in Toronto Blue Jays history in which a player's offensive output equalled what Edgar Martinez averaged between 1990 and 2000: Joey Bats in 2010, 2011, and 2014, Fred McGriff in 1988, 89, and 90, Carlos Delgado in 2000 and 2003, John Olerud in 1993, and Josh Donaldson last year.
So imagine a guy as offensively effective as Josh Donaldson was last year, only he does it year in and year out for 11 straight years. That is what Edgar Martinez was in his prime. And that still cuts out that he had some damn fine seasons right up until the end in 2004.
After all the anti-steroid and anti-DH stuff, it's going to be hilarious when Ortiz gets in on the first ballot in a few years.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
Yep. and while I wouldn't go as far to say that David Ortiz can't hold Edgar Martinez' jock strap, it's not really terribly close. Ortiz has more career raw power (though some of that comes from Martinez spending his whole career in the collection of cavernous AL West ballparks, including all that time in Seattle with the Kingdome and Safeco), but otherwise Martinez is comfortably ahead. 28 points higher on the career BA, 40 points higher on OBP, 8 points higher on OPS, 9 points higher on wRC+, 15 on wOBA, almost 20 points higher by WAR in spite of playing one less season than Ortiz has to-date...
I saw a lot of Edgar Martinez in his prime. Griffey and A-Rod got all the props for the Mariners when their offence was at its most dangerous (and rightfully so) but Martinez' versatility at such a high level was the core of that team's production.
No ****. Luckily, the free agents leaving clears up about $50 million every year, and not just for 2017.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
According to MLB Network's Mike Petriello, 2 people voted for David Eckstein on their HOF ballots.
According to MLB Network's Mike Petriello, 2 people voted for David Eckstein on their HOF ballots.
What in the world
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
b-r has the complete voting results up:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2016.shtml
The fun stuff:
-Aside from Eckstein were these interesting recipients of votes: Garrett Anderson (1 vote), Jason Kendall (2), and Mike Sweeney (3). all 4 of them were eliminated form future ballots, along with Nomar Garciaparra (8 votes), Jim Edmonds (11 votes), and a cadre of players who received no votes (Luis Castillo, Troy Glaus, Mike Lowell, Randy Winn, Mark Grudzielanek, Mike Hampton, and Brad Ausmus), as all of them failed to appear on 5% of submitted ballots.
-Alan Trammell reaches the end of the line in his quest for enshrinement (barring the veterans' committee stepping in), as this was his 15th and final year of eligibility. He had 180 votes for 40.9% representation. This was the highest voting result of his eligibility period, which started in 2002
-Trevor Hoffman finished 5th on the ballot in his first year of eligibility. Aside from Griffey, he was the highest 1st timer in the voting, and only one of two first-timers who will return for next year's ballot (the other is another closer: Billy Wagner). It's kind of funny to see the gushing support that writers are giving to a niche, new-school position like closer while rolling their eyes at a DH like Edgar Martinez (more on him in a minute)
-I already noted the finishes of Bagwell (3rd, 71.6% of ballots, 15 votes short of the threshold) and Raines (5th, 69.8% of ballots, 23 votes short of the threshold). Edgar Martinez ended up 9th at 43.4% representation (139 votes away from the 330 that were needed to get election this year). With just 3 years left on the ballot for him, it doesn't look good unless he becomes the new Raines/Bagwell and gets a big groundswell of support. Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds both received more votes than Martinez did.
-Larry Walker, in his 6th year of eligibility, had 15.5% representation.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2016.shtml
The fun stuff:
-Aside from Eckstein were these interesting recipients of votes: Garrett Anderson (1 vote), Jason Kendall (2), and Mike Sweeney (3). all 4 of them were eliminated form future ballots, along with Nomar Garciaparra (8 votes), Jim Edmonds (11 votes), and a cadre of players who received no votes (Luis Castillo, Troy Glaus, Mike Lowell, Randy Winn, Mark Grudzielanek, Mike Hampton, and Brad Ausmus), as all of them failed to appear on 5% of submitted ballots.
-Alan Trammell reaches the end of the line in his quest for enshrinement (barring the veterans' committee stepping in), as this was his 15th and final year of eligibility. He had 180 votes for 40.9% representation. This was the highest voting result of his eligibility period, which started in 2002
-Trevor Hoffman finished 5th on the ballot in his first year of eligibility. Aside from Griffey, he was the highest 1st timer in the voting, and only one of two first-timers who will return for next year's ballot (the other is another closer: Billy Wagner). It's kind of funny to see the gushing support that writers are giving to a niche, new-school position like closer while rolling their eyes at a DH like Edgar Martinez (more on him in a minute)
-I already noted the finishes of Bagwell (3rd, 71.6% of ballots, 15 votes short of the threshold) and Raines (5th, 69.8% of ballots, 23 votes short of the threshold). Edgar Martinez ended up 9th at 43.4% representation (139 votes away from the 330 that were needed to get election this year). With just 3 years left on the ballot for him, it doesn't look good unless he becomes the new Raines/Bagwell and gets a big groundswell of support. Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds both received more votes than Martinez did.
-Larry Walker, in his 6th year of eligibility, had 15.5% representation.
https://twitter.com/MarkBermanFox26/status/684939223405707265
Not sure what will be better here
1) The people claiming they just know Doc didn't do anything illegal
2) The people feeling 'betrayed' by this for some reason
Or common sense prevails and no one gives a crap.
Not sure what will be better here
1) The people claiming they just know Doc didn't do anything illegal
2) The people feeling 'betrayed' by this for some reason
Or common sense prevails and no one gives a crap.
Hoffman really does not belong in the HOF, but I feel it's likely he'll get in next year. But for that matter, neither does Bruce Sutter.
An actual question, Does anyone remember even a rumor on this, because this is the first time I've heard of this.
Greek_physique
Caron - Legit SNIPER
Diamond Joe Quimby
A$AP Joffrey
Longshot
Registered User
I was reviewing the list of eligible players on Tuesday and was surprised by some of Anderson's numbers. He had more than 2,500 career hits. The only players eligible this year with more hits were Bonds, Raines and Sheffield. He also had a respectable RBI total and solid power for a centrefielder. I'm actually surprised he didn't get more votes.
Mike Hampton should have received a vote just for convincing a team to sign him to that ridiculous contract...
KuleminFan41
Registered User
- Jan 5, 2009
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Which is funny when you realize that Shapiro has won 2 of those awards thats being bragged about lolRob Ford bringing *fire emoticon x3*
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
I was reviewing the list of eligible players on Tuesday and was surprised by some of Anderson's numbers. He had more than 2,500 career hits. The only players eligible this year with more hits were Bonds, Raines and Sheffield. He also had a respectable RBI total and solid power for a centrefielder. I'm actually surprised he didn't get more votes.
Mike Hampton should have received a vote just for convincing a team to sign him to that ridiculous contract...
Anderson was a pretty decent player for a decade or so, but... man, I mean... he would be a borderline "Hall of Very Good" candidate, and even then, he's probably on the outside looking in.
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