Toggle sidebar

Blue Jays Discussion: Let the post-winter-meeting, pre-spring-training baseball withdrawl commence!

  • PLEASE check any bookmark on all devices. IF you see a link pointing to mandatory.com DELETE it Please use this URL https://forums.hfboards.com/
Status
Not open for further replies.
Kurtz

Kurtz

Registered User
Jul 17, 2005
10,348
7,392
Diamond Joe Quimby said:
Very good deal. Do have to wonder how they'll choose to address their rotation.

Also, using the very strange "what they've lost and not replaced since the ALCS" theorem (also known as the "chaos theory"), they've lost Cueto, Zobrist, Madson, Blanton and have not replaced them.
Click to expand...

Keeping with their m.o. of prioritizing the pen, their first significant move was replacing Madson with Soria.
 
The Nemesis

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
89,250
33,861
Langley, BC
Edgar Martinez also got the shaft. I get it. DH, derpa derp, not a "face of the game" and all that. But put aside the fact that he spent his career in Seattle and recognize that for basically his entire career he was one of the very best hitters in baseball.

from 1990 to 2000, and among players who played regularly enough to have 5000 PAs (enough to average about 3 PAs per game played by your team for the entirety of that 11-year run):

BA: .322 (2nd to only Tony Gwynn)
OBP: .430 (3rd to only Frank Thomas and Barrold Bonds)
SLG: .537 (9th, trailing McGwire, Bonds, Griffey, Thomas, Albert Belle, Juan Gonzalez, Larry Walker, and Jeff Bagwell.)
OPS: .966 (5th behind Bonds, McGwire, Thomas, and Bagwell)
BB%: 15.2% (tied for 6th with Bagwell, trailing McGwire, Bonds, Ricky Henderson, Thomas, and Tony Phillips)
K%: 12.8% (27th, but only 3 guys ahead of him showed anywhere near as much power as he did: Bonds, Thomas, and Rafael Palmeiro)
wOBA: .420 (4th behind Bonds, Thomas, McGwire)
wRC+: 154 (5th behind Bonds, McGwire, Thomas, Bagwell)
WAR: 55.6 (5th behind Bonds, Griffey, Bagwell, Thomas. And consider that except for Thomas, the other 3 all get positional defence boosts. Martinez' is all from his bat and the heavy negative positional adjustment that being a DH gets.)

For comparison, using wRC+ (because I like it), there have been only 10 seasons (single seasons) in Toronto Blue Jays history in which a player's offensive output equalled what Edgar Martinez averaged between 1990 and 2000: Joey Bats in 2010, 2011, and 2014, Fred McGriff in 1988, 89, and 90, Carlos Delgado in 2000 and 2003, John Olerud in 1993, and Josh Donaldson last year.

So imagine a guy as offensively effective as Josh Donaldson was last year, only he does it year in and year out for 11 straight years. That is what Edgar Martinez was in his prime. And that still cuts out that he had some damn fine seasons right up until the end in 2004.
 

Discoverer

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
11,200
6,550
After all the anti-steroid and anti-DH stuff, it's going to be hilarious when Ortiz gets in on the first ballot in a few years.
 
The Nemesis

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
89,250
33,861
Langley, BC
Discoverer said:
After all the anti-steroid and anti-DH stuff, it's going to be hilarious when Ortiz gets in on the first ballot in a few years.
Click to expand...

Yep. and while I wouldn't go as far to say that David Ortiz can't hold Edgar Martinez' jock strap, it's not really terribly close. Ortiz has more career raw power (though some of that comes from Martinez spending his whole career in the collection of cavernous AL West ballparks, including all that time in Seattle with the Kingdome and Safeco), but otherwise Martinez is comfortably ahead. 28 points higher on the career BA, 40 points higher on OBP, 8 points higher on OPS, 9 points higher on wRC+, 15 on wOBA, almost 20 points higher by WAR in spite of playing one less season than Ortiz has to-date...

I saw a lot of Edgar Martinez in his prime. Griffey and A-Rod got all the props for the Mariners when their offence was at its most dangerous (and rightfully so) but Martinez' versatility at such a high level was the core of that team's production.
 
Radiohead

Radiohead

Street Spirit
Sep 6, 2008
3,171
242
Are they going to release the names of the 3 bums who didn't put Griffey on their ballot?
 
Radiohead

Radiohead

Street Spirit
Sep 6, 2008
3,171
242
Cool fact:

The highest draft pick ever (1st overall) will be inducted beside the lowest draft pick ever (1390th overall).
 
The Nemesis

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
89,250
33,861
Langley, BC
b-r has the complete voting results up:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2016.shtml

The fun stuff:

-Aside from Eckstein were these interesting recipients of votes: Garrett Anderson (1 vote), Jason Kendall (2), and Mike Sweeney (3). all 4 of them were eliminated form future ballots, along with Nomar Garciaparra (8 votes), Jim Edmonds (11 votes), and a cadre of players who received no votes (Luis Castillo, Troy Glaus, Mike Lowell, Randy Winn, Mark Grudzielanek, Mike Hampton, and Brad Ausmus), as all of them failed to appear on 5% of submitted ballots.

-Alan Trammell reaches the end of the line in his quest for enshrinement (barring the veterans' committee stepping in), as this was his 15th and final year of eligibility. He had 180 votes for 40.9% representation. This was the highest voting result of his eligibility period, which started in 2002

-Trevor Hoffman finished 5th on the ballot in his first year of eligibility. Aside from Griffey, he was the highest 1st timer in the voting, and only one of two first-timers who will return for next year's ballot (the other is another closer: Billy Wagner). It's kind of funny to see the gushing support that writers are giving to a niche, new-school position like closer while rolling their eyes at a DH like Edgar Martinez (more on him in a minute)

-I already noted the finishes of Bagwell (3rd, 71.6% of ballots, 15 votes short of the threshold) and Raines (5th, 69.8% of ballots, 23 votes short of the threshold). Edgar Martinez ended up 9th at 43.4% representation (139 votes away from the 330 that were needed to get election this year). With just 3 years left on the ballot for him, it doesn't look good unless he becomes the new Raines/Bagwell and gets a big groundswell of support. Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds both received more votes than Martinez did.

-Larry Walker, in his 6th year of eligibility, had 15.5% representation.
 

Mach85

Registered User
Mar 14, 2013
3,900
678
The Nemesis said:
b-r has the complete voting results up:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2016.shtml

The fun stuff:

-Aside from Eckstein were these interesting recipients of votes: Garrett Anderson (1 vote), Jason Kendall (2), and Mike Sweeney (3). all 4 of them were eliminated form future ballots, along with Nomar Garciaparra (8 votes), Jim Edmonds (11 votes), and a cadre of players who received no votes (Luis Castillo, Troy Glaus, Mike Lowell, Randy Winn, Mark Grudzielanek, Mike Hampton, and Brad Ausmus), as all of them failed to appear on 5% of submitted ballots.

-Alan Trammell reaches the end of the line in his quest for enshrinement (barring the veterans' committee stepping in), as this was his 15th and final year of eligibility. He had 180 votes for 40.9% representation. This was the highest voting result of his eligibility period, which started in 2002

-Trevor Hoffman finished 5th on the ballot in his first year of eligibility. Aside from Griffey, he was the highest 1st timer in the voting, and only one of two first-timers who will return for next year's ballot (the other is another closer: Billy Wagner). It's kind of funny to see the gushing support that writers are giving to a niche, new-school position like closer while rolling their eyes at a DH like Edgar Martinez (more on him in a minute)

-I already noted the finishes of Bagwell (3rd, 71.6% of ballots, 15 votes short of the threshold) and Raines (5th, 69.8% of ballots, 23 votes short of the threshold). Edgar Martinez ended up 9th at 43.4% representation (139 votes away from the 330 that were needed to get election this year). With just 3 years left on the ballot for him, it doesn't look good unless he becomes the new Raines/Bagwell and gets a big groundswell of support. Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds both received more votes than Martinez did.

-Larry Walker, in his 6th year of eligibility, had 15.5% representation.
Click to expand...

Hoffman really does not belong in the HOF, but I feel it's likely he'll get in next year. But for that matter, neither does Bruce Sutter.
 
theaub

theaub

34-38-61-10-13-15
Nov 21, 2008
18,886
1,977
Toronto
Rob Ford bringing *fire emoticon x3*

NzS93IS.jpg
 
Longshot

Longshot

Registered User
Jul 2, 2008
11,161
312
Ontario, Canada
The Nemesis said:
b-r has the complete voting results up:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2016.shtml

The fun stuff:

-Aside from Eckstein were these interesting recipients of votes: Garrett Anderson (1 vote), Jason Kendall (2), and Mike Sweeney (3). all 4 of them were eliminated form future ballots, along with Nomar Garciaparra (8 votes), Jim Edmonds (11 votes), and a cadre of players who received no votes (Luis Castillo, Troy Glaus, Mike Lowell, Randy Winn, Mark Grudzielanek, Mike Hampton, and Brad Ausmus), as all of them failed to appear on 5% of submitted ballots.

-Alan Trammell reaches the end of the line in his quest for enshrinement (barring the veterans' committee stepping in), as this was his 15th and final year of eligibility. He had 180 votes for 40.9% representation. This was the highest voting result of his eligibility period, which started in 2002

-Trevor Hoffman finished 5th on the ballot in his first year of eligibility. Aside from Griffey, he was the highest 1st timer in the voting, and only one of two first-timers who will return for next year's ballot (the other is another closer: Billy Wagner). It's kind of funny to see the gushing support that writers are giving to a niche, new-school position like closer while rolling their eyes at a DH like Edgar Martinez (more on him in a minute)

-I already noted the finishes of Bagwell (3rd, 71.6% of ballots, 15 votes short of the threshold) and Raines (5th, 69.8% of ballots, 23 votes short of the threshold). Edgar Martinez ended up 9th at 43.4% representation (139 votes away from the 330 that were needed to get election this year). With just 3 years left on the ballot for him, it doesn't look good unless he becomes the new Raines/Bagwell and gets a big groundswell of support. Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds both received more votes than Martinez did.

-Larry Walker, in his 6th year of eligibility, had 15.5% representation.
Click to expand...

I was reviewing the list of eligible players on Tuesday and was surprised by some of Anderson's numbers. He had more than 2,500 career hits. The only players eligible this year with more hits were Bonds, Raines and Sheffield. He also had a respectable RBI total and solid power for a centrefielder. I'm actually surprised he didn't get more votes.

Mike Hampton should have received a vote just for convincing a team to sign him to that ridiculous contract... :laugh:
 

Discoverer

Registered User
Apr 11, 2012
11,200
6,550
Longshot said:
I was reviewing the list of eligible players on Tuesday and was surprised by some of Anderson's numbers. He had more than 2,500 career hits. The only players eligible this year with more hits were Bonds, Raines and Sheffield. He also had a respectable RBI total and solid power for a centrefielder. I'm actually surprised he didn't get more votes.

Mike Hampton should have received a vote just for convincing a team to sign him to that ridiculous contract... :laugh:
Click to expand...

Anderson was a pretty decent player for a decade or so, but... man, I mean... he would be a borderline "Hall of Very Good" candidate, and even then, he's probably on the outside looking in.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Latest posts

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom
X