GDT: Let the Free Agency Madness begin

[bleedgreen]

I don’t know if Pesce deserves to be in the Canes hof.

He’s in mine though. To me this version of the team began with the SlavinPesce, it’s the foundation this was built on and eventually those contracts helped us keep the costs down as well. Aho came the next year and is obviously the core but it all started when this team was ass and the first glimmer of hope was those two on D.

I’d forgive them for giving him a painful contract, but I know how we work and that isn’t coming.

 

[Canes]

Well this sucks. I don't know what the fascination with defense swapping and EK is. We need a scoring threat and a 2c. But whatver.

Karlsson would have been 3rd in goal scoring for us last year. Oh, and he had more assists than anyone on our team had points.

 

[AD Skinner]

I don’t know if Pesce deserves to be in the Canes hof.

He’s in mine though. To me this version of the team began with the SlavinPesce, it’s the foundation this was built on and eventually those contracts helped us keep the costs down as well. Aho came the next year and is obviously the core but it all started when this team was ass and the first glimmer of hope was those two on D.

I’d forgive them for giving him a painful contract, but I know how we work and that isn’t coming.

I have this very vivid memory of watching him and slavin together one early season game way back and just being blown away. Like where I was, what else I was doing, what I posted here, just completely wowed and convinced that these two were going to be legit really good nhl players

 

[Coffee]

I tried to snag Boldy for you guys

 

[Justicebork]

Karlsson would have been 3rd in goal scoring for us last year. Oh, and he had more assists than anyone on our team had points.

Which guy are you fundamentally altering the chemistry of your team and discarding all cap flexibility in order to acquire? You better hope its 2022-23 and not 2017-2022.

 

[AD Skinner]

Which guy are you fundamentally altering the chemistry of your team and discarding all cap flexibility in order to acquire? You better hope its 2022-23 and not 2017-2022.

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This is my fear with karlsson. If we could get him without major changes then it’s totally worth a gamble. But i guess the calculus is that the changes are happening no matter what

 

[Stickpucker]

A skater who has played 557 games with the team isn’t really HOF worthy

Wet

Blanket

Don't mess with the man's vibe he's going through a hockey breakup.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

Which guy are you fundamentally altering the chemistry of your team and discarding all cap flexibility in order to acquire? You better hope its 2022-23 and not 2017-2022.

View attachment 727155

Is it possible he took that long to truly recover from his injury? Achilles injuries ain't no joke.

 

[DaveG]

Which guy are you fundamentally altering the chemistry of your team and discarding all cap flexibility in order to acquire? You better hope its 2022-23 and not 2017-2022.

View attachment 727155

yep, this is very much my concern about the approach we appear to be taking. we can either get an absolute game changer... or the biggest cap anchor in the league, and there REALLY is no inbetween.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Karlsson would have been 3rd in goal scoring for us last year. Oh, and he had more assists than anyone on our team had points.

Listen, that's great and all. But holy dogshit- we had the leagues best scoring D last year. Do we really need to add to that when the problem is forward scoring? We lived and died by long range cannon shots by defensemen last year, which tbh was really cool at times, but it makes the Canes a one dimensional team. Adding another howitzer when there are fighter planes available doesn't make sense.

 

[Derailed75]

Listen, that's great and all. But holy dogshit- we had the leagues best scoring D last year. Do we really need to add to that when the problem is forward scoring? We lived and died by long range cannon shots by defensemen last year, which tbh was really cool at times, but it makes the Canes a one dimensional team. Adding another howitzer when there are fighter planes available doesn't make sense.

Few things

1 i don't think it really makes them one dimensional, scoring is scoring and if you have mtiple threats on the ice at the same time you stretch the d thin.

2 does it matter whether the goal comes from a forward or a blue liner? They count the same.

3. Other then a trade for Nylander I'm not seeing too many F/A18 Super Hornets out there (no offense to the fighter planes of old) just a few P-51's. If all we can get is some middle of the road forwards i would rather upgrade the D or keep Pesce

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Listen, that's great and all. But holy dogshit- we had the leagues best scoring D last year. Do we really need to add to that when the problem is forward scoring? We lived and died by long range cannon shots by defensemen last year, which tbh was really cool at times, but it makes the Canes a one dimensional team. Adding another howitzer when there are fighter planes available doesn't make sense.

I get what you are saying, but Karlsson is more of a fighter plane. He’s not Burns firing long range shots. He’s an elite puck moving, transition guy that drives offense, opens up the ice for forwards, and makes it easier for the forwards we do have to get better scoring chances. He makes all the forwards more lethal.

I’m not sold on the acquisition due to his defense, injury concerns, and chemistry; and I would also like to see Carolina add a top end forward; but adding EK isn’t the same as adding Hamilton or Burns.

 

[Sigurd]

A skater who has played 557 games with the team isn’t really HOF worthy

I said Hurricanes hall of fame; not regular hockey hall of fame. I think you might have misunderstood me.

Since last season they introduced the team's own hall of fame for the 25th anniversary, that's what I was referring to.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

yep, this is very much my concern about the approach we appear to be taking. we can either get an absolute game changer... or the biggest cap anchor in the league, and there REALLY is no inbetween.

If SJ retains 40%, we'd be on the hook for 6.9m. I would certainly take a shot on this production for that figure. Wouldn't most teams?

 

[Justicebork]

If SJ retains 40%, we'd be on the hook for 6.9m. I would certainly take a shot on this production for that figure. Wouldn't most teams?

Most teams don't manage the cap well. Our secret sauce is that we manage it exceptionally well.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

I said Hurricanes hall of fame; not regular hockey hall of fame. I think you might have misunderstood me.

Since last season they introduced the team's own hall of fame for the 25th anniversary, that's what I was referring to.

I didn’t misunderstand.

 

[FlyingSquirrels]

Most teams don't manage the cap well. Our secret sauce is that we manage it exceptionally well.

I agree with that totally. But wouldn't 3 years of Norris caliber production for 6.9m be exactly that?

 

[Sigurd]

I didn’t misunderstand.

Okay. Then after catching up more to the topic, I refer to this post:

Here's the criteria from the Canes HOF site:

Players

Skaters who have played at least 250 games with the Hurricanes

Goaltenders who have played at least 100 games with the Hurricanes

Any skaters or goaltenders who have won the Stanley Cup or other major NHL awards during their tenure with the Hurricanes (I'm assuming this part isn't mandatory but just makes one eligible even if they didn't meet the games played threshold, but it's unclear)

Demonstrate exceptional attributes in the areas of playing ability, sportsmanship, character and contributions to the Hurricanes

Must not have played in a professional or international game during the season prior to their election

I think you can easily argue Pesce by that criteria even if as I said he's maybe not a slam dunk in my mind. To act like it's a joke to consider it is silly. And it kinda is a high level participation trophy and popularity contest. It's just something for the fans to enjoy the history of the team and recognize great franchise players. Why so serious?

Why have something at all when you have made the accomplishment cheap because the criteria is easy?

There's nothing cheap at all about a player of Pesce's talent and long term career with the Hurricanes (the team that drafted him no less) being inducted into the team's hall of fame. He meets the team's own criteria for being inducted into their hall of fame.

Also, as I said, Pesce has been with us through the rough times and the good times. He was one of the few bright spots on the team for a few years during the dark times. He's been a huge difference maker on our blue line even if he's been overshadowed (as other people have said).

I don’t know if Pesce deserves to be in the Canes hof.

He’s in mine though. To me this version of the team began with the SlavinPesce, it’s the foundation this was built on and eventually those contracts helped us keep the costs down as well. Aho came the next year and is obviously the core but it all started when this team was ass and the first glimmer of hope was those two on D.

I’d forgive them for giving him a painful contract, but I know how we work and that isn’t coming.

Good points.

 

[Justicebork]

I agree with that totally. But wouldn't 3 years of Norris caliber production for 6.9m be exactly that?

Probably, yes. But go back to the previous post. You have to assume that the outlier, last year, is what you'll get, instead of the prior 5 season. That's quite a gamble, primarily because it flies in the face of the way we've managed our assets and cap space for years.

 

[mikeyfan]

Most teams don't manage the cap well. Our secret sauce is that we manage it exceptionally well.

If the Canes were to ship their 2nd Round Philly pick to the Ducks who would retain at 50%, Send Pesce, Drury, draft picks and maybe another minor leaguer to the Sharks for Karlson at 20% (Which is all I'm hearing is the max the Sharks are willing to retain, then Karlson's hit would be $4,575,269. If the Sharks only retained 15% the the Cap hit would be $4,861,223.

I picked the Ducks because they are under the minimum cap limit and plenty of money to handle the retainage and still fill out their roster, We may even get by with just sending them an AHL player and keeping the Flyers 2nd.

 

[Sigurd]

If the Canes were to ship their 2nd Round Philly pick to the Ducks who would retain at 50%, Send Pesce, Drury, draft picks and maybe another minor leaguer to the Sharks for Karlson at 20% (Which is all I'm hearing is the max the Sharks are willing to retain, then Karlson's hit would be $4,575,269. If the Sharks only retained 15% the the Cap hit would be $4,861,223.

I picked the Ducks because they are under the minimum cap limit and plenty of money to handle the retainage and still fill out their roster, We may even get by with just sending them an AHL player and keeping the Flyers 2nd.

Even with them having relatively little on their books, I really doubt the Ducks would retain 50% on a contract as expensive as Karlsson's for 4 more years for only a 2nd round in return; even if it's Philly's which will be an early 2nd round/borderline late 1st round pick.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If the Canes were to ship their 2nd Round Philly pick to the Ducks who would retain at 50%, Send Pesce, Drury, draft picks and maybe another minor leaguer to the Sharks for Karlson at 20% (Which is all I'm hearing is the max the Sharks are willing to retain, then Karlson's hit would be $4,575,269. If the Sharks only retained 15% the the Cap hit would be $4,861,223.

I picked the Ducks because they are under the minimum cap limit and plenty of money to handle the retainage and still fill out their roster, We may even get by with just sending them an AHL player and keeping the Flyers 2nd.

1) It's been reported by Dreger (in the video up in this thread) that Pesce does not have SJ on his trade list, so he can't be traded there without him approving. Not sure why he'd approve to go from a cup contender to a bottom dweller. That doesn't mean Carolina can't trade Pesce somewhere else and then use those assets to send to SJ though.
2) I would think that the Ducks would want more than a 2nd round pick to retain 50% for 4 more years. If it was 1 year, then yeah, a mid-late round pick would suffice, but 4 years of a high dollar contract is a lot to ask of a team for only a 2nd.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I feel as if in the end, the Canes will get EK at $7M AAV. It feels like that number is the eventual sweet spot for both sides, but if SJ ownership doesn't like the idea of that, then there might need to be a third team to facilitate the transaction to get it down to $7M.

 

[mikeyfan]

1) It's been reported by Dreger (in the video up in this thread) that Pesce does not have SJ on his trade list, so he can't be traded there without him approving. Not sure why he'd approve to go from a cup contender to a bottom dweller. That doesn't mean Carolina can't trade Pesce somewhere else and then use those assets to send to SJ though.
2) I would think that the Ducks would want more than a 2nd round pick to retain 50% for 4 more years. If it was 1 year, then yeah, a mid-late round pick would suffice, but 4 years of a high dollar contract is a lot to ask of a team for only a 2nd.

So what would be the retainage the Ducks would take on. If the Sharks have 20% retainage and the Ducks 25 then we are at around 6.9 Million, 30% by the Ducks would be 6.5. We Can't Trade Skjei because we shouldn't be trading our left D for another Right D. And without 4 to 6 million going out we can't afford the cap hit, That I can see.

With that said if the Sharks want a D in return, then, IMO, our trade would have to look something like Chatfield and Tevo going to the Sharks, and work like hell to get the Ducks to retain at least 25%

 

[WreckingCrew]

Which guy are you fundamentally altering the chemistry of your team and discarding all cap flexibility in order to acquire? You better hope its 2022-23 and not 2017-2022.

View attachment 727155

This is my worry, he's the ultimate sell-high candidate. Everyone getting hyper-focused on his career year last yeara is forgetting prior he averaged 8G, 30A in 53GP/year. Still solid production but not worth more than like $5-6M/yr

So what would be the retainage the Ducks would take on. If the Sharks have 20% retainage and the Ducks 25 then we are at around 6.9 Million, 30% by the Ducks would be 6.5. We Can't Trade Skjei because we shouldn't be trading our left D for another Right D. And without 4 to 6 million going out we can't afford the cap hit, That I can see.

With that said if the Sharks want a D in return, then, IMO, our trade would have to look something like Chatfield and Tevo going to the Sharks, and work like hell to get the Ducks to retain at least 25%

Why not? We have Slavin & Orlov on the LH side, we can easily afford to trade Skjei right now for pretty much anything