Proposal: Leon Draisaitl + Jesse Puljujarvi for Ivan Provorov + Anthony Stolarz

[Curufinwe]

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Anthony Stolarz

Ivan Provorov

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Leon Draisaitl
OR
Jesse Puljujarvi

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Oilers deal from a position of strength and give up their surplus forwards for positions they desperately lack. They get a can't miss top pairing defender & potential elite starter. They will also eventually need money for McDavid to re-sign so this frees up future cap space.

Flyers do this to add another layer to their offensive production and to ease minutes off of Vorachek and Giroux. Eventually Draisaitl and Puljujarvi will replace those two as their first attack options. They can survive the loss of Provorov with Morin, Sanheim and Hagg trending as top 4 options as soon as next season.

Thoughts? Does anyone need to add or is it fair?

I made a small change that made it fair.

 

[stokes84]

I made a small change that made it fair.

Still not good for Edmonton. Pulju and Draisaitl are both a tier up from Provorov. Stolarz doesn't make up the difference.

Pulju is closer to Eichel/Matthews as a prospect, Provorov is closer to Strome. It's a big gap. Like, probably a full number on the HF scale. Draisaitl has already proven he's a big NHL talent. That's worth quite a bit.

 

[McSuper]

Edmonton takes out 1 of the pieces and add Landers and the Flyers add something else . I still expect a no as LHD is the last thing we need and the Flyers don't move Provorov with out a overpayment . Which I agree with there just no reason for the Flyers to move IP . #1 D are too hard to come by and he has all the tools to become a great D

 

[cwede]

I don't have a rooting interest here,
but if Hextall, you take this original 2 for 2 in a heartbeat.

worst case, to recover depth, you could turn around either forward for just about anything ... maybe even Trouba

 

[Hockeypete49]

I made a small change that made it fair.

I do not do that deal. I think people tend to underestimate Provorov. He is a true number one and they do not fall from trees.

 

[stokes84]

I do not do that deal. I think people tend to underestimate Provorov. He is a true number one and they do not fall from trees.

You might want to tap the breaks. He's a really good prospect that's in the same tier as guys like Strome, Marner, and Dubois. Guys like this have a lot of value, but guys like Pulju and Draisaitl have more value. Draisaitl would have been in that tier of prospects, but he has "proved it" points. Pulju is a tier above those guys.

 

[Mersss]

You might want to tap the breaks. He's a really good prospect that's in the same tier as guys like Strome, Marner, and Dubois. Guys like this have a lot of value, but guys like Pulju and Draisaitl have more value. Draisaitl would have been in that tier of prospects, but he has "proved it" points. Pulju is a tier above those guys.

How exactly can you say Puju has more value then Dubois when Dubois was JUST drafter ahead of him? Because he's an Oilers??

As of now, nothing proves that point regardign Dubois and Puju. Not because HF had Puju #3 that GM's around the league had him at #3

 

[rockinghockey]

I edm needs a right shot dman and will not move either of these two young fwds as they will be depleted up front. Will be interesting how healthy the team is and performs this year

 

[rockinghockey]

You might want to tap the breaks. He's a really good prospect that's in the same tier as guys like Strome, Marner, and Dubois. Guys like this have a lot of value, but guys like Pulju and Draisaitl have more value. Draisaitl would have been in that tier of prospects, but he has "proved it" points. Pulju is a tier above those guys.

I agree fans over value their prospects Pro, Pul, and Dubois are all equal until they prove themselves

 

[Homesick]

maybe I don't know enough about Stolarz, doesn't seem to be in the upper echelon of goalie prospects so a weird trade to make for EDM. I just wouldn't do it, especially given needs

He's not better than Brossoit so why?

 

[ManofSteel55]

I would have a hard time trading Draisaitl for Provorov and Stolarz, let alone both, and I love Provorov's game and have seen him a lot over the past two seasons in the WHL. Regardless of his upside, Draisaitl is proven to be a good NHL player, at worst he is a 2nd line centre, and he still has top line upside. Provorov could be anything at the NHL level. I expect he will be a top 4 defenseman sooner than later, but the bust potential is still there, as with any player who hasn't made the NHL yet.

Pulujarvi would have went ahead of Provorov most likely if they were in the same draft class, but given our team positional needs I might do a 1 for 1 of the two players. Might. Probably not. I consider both to be top 10 prospects in the world right now, and would understand if Philly fans wouldn't do a 1 for 1 of these two.

 

[Homesick]

I do not do that deal. I think people tend to underestimate Provorov. He is a true number one and they do not fall from trees.

I watch a lot of WHL(season ticket holder/TV). People tend to overrate him a lot. He's not a true number one at all and was very unimpressive in the playoffs

 

[ManofSteel55]

I do not do that deal. I think people tend to underestimate Provorov. He is a true number one and they do not fall from trees.

Honest question here, how many games have you seen from Provorov? I have seen him play a lot of hockey, and while I agree that #1 potential is there, he isn't a guarantee. Cam Barker dominated the WHL too and couldn't translate to become a decent NHL'er. I don't expect Provorov to bust, he has a lot of skill, but you can't call him a "true number one" when he hasn't played a game of professional hockey yet. I would be shocked if he is even in the NHL this season to be honest, he struggled quite a bit in the second half of last season and didn't look good in the Memorial Cup, playing against boys.

 

[The Nuge]

I do not do that deal. I think people tend to underestimate Provorov. He is a true number one and they do not fall from trees.

Until he proves it, he's just a good prospect.

How exactly can you say Puju has more value then Dubois when Dubois was JUST drafter ahead of him? Because he's an Oilers??

As of now, nothing proves that point regardign Dubois and Puju. Not because HF had Puju #3 that GM's around the league had him at #3

There was a consensus around the league that there was a big drop off from Puljujarvi to Dubois/Tkachuk. Columbus deciding to draft for need doesn't change that. Either way, that's kind of irrelevant to the point that Provorov isn't yet in that tier (although he could be)

 

[stokes84]

I agree fans over value their prospects Pro, Pul, and Dubois are all equal until they prove themselves

Just because CBJ went against the common opinion, it does not change the fact that just about everyone else believes Pulju to be in a higher tier. I have no dog in this fight, I just want it to be right.

 

[THall4]

Provorov is a solid solid prospect..but hes not worth Drat and Pulju

not interested in Stolarz at this time, and IMO doesn't fill the gap in value as a goalie prospect.

I know its just the WHL, but Drai made Provorov look pretty average during the '14 WHL playoffs

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Provorov is a solid solid prospect..but hes not worth Drat and Pulju

not interested in Stolarz at this time, and IMO doesn't fill the gap in value as a goalie prospect.

I know its just the WHL, but Drai made Provorov look pretty average during the '14 WHL playoffs

Provorov looked terrible in the memorial cup as well this year. Easily one of the more overrated prospects on here, I think he becomes a top pairing guy, just not a #1.

Terrible for Edmonton.

 

[THall4]

How exactly can you say Puju has more value then Dubois when Dubois was JUST drafter ahead of him? Because he's an Oilers??

As of now, nothing proves that point regardign Dubois and Puju. Not because HF had Puju #3 that GM's around the league had him at #3

You cant judge value based on draft position. Correct me if im wrong but almost every scout had Pulju ranked as the 2nd/3rd best player in the draft. Columbus passed on Pulju to fill a organizational need at C ..not because he was better.

 

[Homesick]

You cant judge value based on draft position. Correct me if im wrong but almost every scout had Pulju ranked as the 2nd/3rd best player in the draft. Columbus passed on Pulju to fill a organizational need at C ..not because he was better.

He was 3rd in all but one set of rankings(2nd with ISS) Dubois was as low as 10th but overall the consensus #5 player in the draft.

The Oilers need that top 6 RW more than they need another LHD prospect(Nurse, Reinahrt, C.Jones, Niemelainen, Cairns, Paigin) Sure most of them arent on the same level as Provorov but the list is a lot shorter for RW depth

 

[ponder719]

There was a consensus around the league that there was a big drop off from Puljujarvi to Dubois/Tkachuk.

Until he proves it, he's just a good prospect.

OK, snark aside...

OP's trade was definitely over the top in terms of value to Philly, but given our positional needs, that's exactly the type of Godfather offer it would take for us to say yes to a deal. We can't accept fair value, because we absolutely have to have the skill set we expect Provorov to bring.

Edmonton, of course, can't offer that much for him, despite the fact that they would obviously benefit from what Provorov brings (and, given that offense is not the Oilers' problem, I think they'd benefit more from having Provorov than they would from having either Draisaitl or Puljujarvi, though clearly not as much as they'd benefit from having both of their guys.)

All that being said, I do consider Provorov to be a prospect on roughly the same level as Puljujarvi, and given our needs, would rather have him than either one of the Oilers being offered. If we could be more sure of Sanheim reaching his potential, the equation might be different, and a one for one trade might make more sense. As it stands, though, Edmonton would rather not give up on their high picks, and Philly would rather not trade a player at a position of relative weakness for one at a position of relative strength, so there's no deal here.

 

[Homesick]

Until he proves it, he's just a good prospect.

OK, snark aside...

OP's trade was definitely over the top in terms of value to Philly, but given our positional needs, that's exactly the type of Godfather offer it would take for us to say yes to a deal. We can't accept fair value, because we absolutely have to have the skill set we expect Provorov to bring.

Edmonton, of course, can't offer that much for him, despite the fact that they would obviously benefit from what Provorov brings (and, IMO, would benefit more from having Provorov than they would from having either Draisaitl or Puljujarvi. Offense is not the Oilers' problem.)

All that being said, I do consider Provorov to be a prospect on the same level as Puljujarvi, and given our needs, would rather have him than either one of the Oilers being offered. If we could be more sure of Sanheim reaching his potential, the equation might be different, and a one for one trade might make more sense. As it stands, though, Edmonton would rather not give up on their high picks, and Philly would rather not trade a player at a position of relative weakness for one at a position of relative strength, so there's no deal here.

26th, 26th, 25th, 18th, 19th, and 28th overall for Goals says that offense has been a problem. The Oilers finally have depth and now they're just supposed to throw it away for Provorov?
The Oilers will be better this season with Draisaitl in the line up than they would be with Provorov. Never mind if that throw in Puljujarvi makes the team

 

[ponder719]

26th, 26th, 25th, 18th, 19th, and 28th overall for Goals says that offense has been a problem. The Oilers finally have depth and now they're just supposed to throw it away for Provorov?
The Oilers will be better this season with Draisaitl in the line up than they would be with Provorov. Never mind if that throw in Puljujarvi makes the team

First, acquiring Provorov is not "throwing away" your depth; it's trading from a position of presumed strength (given the pipeline of forward prospects we already know you have) to shore up a weakness, one that Oilers fans have spent the past several years bemoaning.

Second, nobody is calling Puljujarvi a throw in, except you. Irrational hyperbole does you no favors.

Third, it's highly likely that the Oilers would be better with a third-year center than with a rookie defenseman, for this upcoming season. However, the purpose of adding a rookie with a projected #1D ceiling isn't to maximize a team's growth in the season immediately following the deal; that would be ludicrous.

In any case, Philadelphia is well aware that OP's deal would never be offered, and for the reasons I listed above, neither team would agree to the revised deal Curufinwe proposed earlier in the thread. No need for either side to get snippy about it; there's just no way to get past the rational objections both sides have.

 

[DreamTheatre]

I wouldn’t do either of them for this package, and he shoots left.

 

[gwh]

I agree fans over value their prospects Pro, Pul, and Dubois are all equal until they prove themselves

I d also rate them similarly. Pretty solid list Grade A+ prospects.

Draisaitl is a 51 point rookie, which is a couple steps up. Prospects can always bust, but Drai is guaranteed next season NHL player with 2 years of ELC at "non star 1st liner production" level.

That alone is worth about 2x4 million usd in the UFA market for the 2 seasons.

 

[Seachd]

(given the pipeline of forward prospects we already know you have)

But that's the organization's biggest weakness.