Leon Draisaitl 3rd 110+ point season in 4 years...

[Asinine]

You must skate like a toddler then.

I'm like Pavel Bure but a little better edgework. Enough about me boys let's keep this thread on topic.

 

[HockeyWooot]

He's an amazing player for sure, agreed people overstate the impact of playing in the same team as McDavid. Top player in his own right.

I think there are arguments for or against any of MacKinnon, Kucherov and Draisaitl bring the second best behind McDavid.

 

[Yackiberg8]

the internet.

That’s what I thought, good argument.

So the two goals last night by Nuge were a product of McDavid right those great setups McDavid fed him

I think this discussion is over your head bud…

 

[Sasha Orlov]

It’s honestly even more impressive that he keeps putting up 110 points when you consider that he isn’t a good player

 

[Leaf Fans]

It’s honestly even more impressive that he keeps putting up 110 points when you consider that he isn’t a good player

He is a good player.

 

[Fourier]

Obviously all players will produce more when playing with other great players. The fact that McDavid is by far the best offensive player in the game means that his teammates benefit the most. It’s not a difficult concept.

Hmm. Maybe this is not as simple a concept as you make it out to be. In fact maybe its not even always true.

Over the last three years 5 vs 5 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins:

With McDavid: 673 minutes ----1.43 pts/60.
Without McDavid: 1841 minutes ----1.67 pts/60

If you look at 2019-20 through 2021-22 Nuge's scoring rate on the pp with McDavid was 6.03 pts/60. Over his first three years in the NHL it was 5.92 pts/60. This year of course is an anomaly on the pp but its not all about McDavid. Nuge has been a key to the Oilers pp for years.

A players point totals are a product of two factors: the number of goals scored when that player is on the ice and the %-age of those goals that the player is involved in. if one goes up but the other goes down it is not obvious what happens to the product. (The Chain Rule strikes again!)_

Ask yourself this question. When McDavid is on the ice who has the puck most often????

 

[Despote]

He's literally the Lynch pin of the Oilers powerplay.

If you take away either McDavid or Draisaitl scoring in the PP drops, but it drops like 30% more if you remove Nuge instead.

How do you figure? The sample size is very unreliable, but statistically there is definitely a bigger drop off with McDavid off the powerplay than Nugent-Hopkins off the powerplay. In both goals and, especially, in a small sample, expected goals. But you can't do much with this, since neither McDavid or Draisaitl have missed almost any games in the last 7 seasons. But, for example in 19-20, the powerplay didn't miss a beat when Nuge wasn't there, but declined significantly in the 7 games that McDavid missed. The powerplay has scored less without Nugent-Hopkins, but there's no way to compare it to McDavid or Draisaitl missing because they never miss games.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

 

[Yackiberg8]

Hmm. Maybe this is not as simple a concept as you make it out to be. In fact maybe its not even always true.

Over the last three years 5 vs 5 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins:

With McDavid: 673 minutes ----1.43 pts/60.
Without McDavid: 1841 minutes ----1.67 pts/60

If you look at 2019-20 through 2021-22 Nuge's scoring rate on the pp with McDavid was 6.03 pts/60. Over his first three years in the NHL it was 5.92 pts/60. This year of course is an anomaly on the pp but its not all about McDavid. Nuge has been a key to the Oilers pp for years.

A players point totals are a product of two factors: the number of goals scored when that player is on the ice and the %-age of those goals that the player is involved in. if one goes up but the other goes down it is not obvious what happens to the product. (The Chain Rule strikes again!)_

Ask yourself this question. When McDavid is on the ice who has the puck most often????

The way Oiler fans try and downplay how good McDavid is to boost up their other players is fascinating. McDavid is an all time great buddy, you should be thankful to have him.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

My math adds up perfectly. After all I'm using your flawed logic. With McDavid 5 on 5 the numbers you suggested calculates to about 165 points . Without McDavid it comes to 85 points am I right? So which boat do you float on ? Can't have one without the other....

No, you're not right. You don't understand math.

 

[Saltcreek]

The way Oiler fans try and downplay how good McDavid is to boost up their other players is fascinating. McDavid is an all time great buddy, you should be thankful to have him.

You make a general statement, another proves it to be wrong, you double down on the stupidity.

How about you admit that everything that happens on the Oilers is not just solely due to McDavid.

 

[Dieseloil]

Drai looked pretty great when McDavid was injured. Team won too, that’s all that really counts, not Joe Fan’s opinions because he doesn’t like the Oilers. Yes it was for only a few games, but it’s a team game.

 

[The Podium]

If only he cared about defending at all

 

[Yackiberg8]

You make a general statement, another proves it to be wrong, you double down on the stupidity.

How about you admit that everything that happens on the Oilers is not just solely due to McDavid.

I said players produce better playing with better players and that McDavid was the best player in the world. You are saying you disagree? It’s weird that McDavid is the one leading the team and league in power play points with 62 and not Nuge or Drai. Strange he has 280 PP points since entering the league and RNH only has 169.

The argument that players don’t benefit from playing with an all-time great is certainly an odd one.

Please continue with your made up point that people are saying other Oilers players aren’t good and it’s all McDavid though…Draisaitl and Nuge can be good players while also benefitting from playing with McDavid you know…

 

[Fourier]

The way Oiler fans try and downplay how good McDavid is to boost up their other players is fascinating. McDavid is an all time great buddy, you should be thankful to have him.

I am fully aware of how good McDavid is. I first saw him live as a 16 year old and beleived at that point that he would be an all time great. I've watched this team from 1972, was a STH through the entire Gretzky era and have seen every game McDavid has played in the NHL. I have also said on multiple occasions going back several years that he is the second best Oiler of all time. None of that makes your claim true.

As far as Draisaitl is concerned based on talent alone for the Oilers all time I have him behind Gretzky and McDavid. A touch behind Coffey but ahead of all of Kurri, Messier and Anderson.

 

[PostBradMalone]

If only he cared about defending at all

Rent free.

 

[Juxta Position]

That’s what I thought, good argument.


I think this discussion is over your head bud…

i'm not going to waste my time showing you how to use google. search Auston matthews better than connor mcdavid and theres literally a ton of articles and youtube video's.

you coming in here saying "source?" is disingenuous, when you know it's a 2 second search.

 

[McNuge]

GREAT analysis....

Let's not beat up on @WhiskeyYerTheDevils too much, he did compare Drai to Thornton/Jagr... I see more Thornton/Kopitar, but still exceptional company.

... but I agree with your point. Fans around the league... actually mostly fans of eastern teams... don't appreciate how much of a defensive role Draisaitl is given on this team.

I think that's mostly because they don't actually watch full games... don't see that he's out there on every key draw... don't see that the reason he's occasionally lazy in on the back check is that he's incredibly overplayed and is gassed. This year we FINALLY have some defensive depth down the middle and he's going to benefit from that in the playoffs.

There is clearly a reason why almost every coach he's had in the NHL has used him as the sole forward when on a 5 on 3.

but them Jfresh charts sure do know defensive game better than actual NHL coaches who've been around the game their entire lives.

 

[Yackiberg8]

i'm not going to waste my time showing you how to use google. search Auston matthews better than connor mcdavid and theres literally a ton of articles and youtube video's.

you coming in here saying "source?" is disingenuous, when you know it's a 2 second search.

Just googled and Youtubed what you suggested and after searching I found a total of 2 videos/articles saying Matthews was better. One was satire and said he was better because he played for Toronto and the other was Dom L. from the Athletic who manipulated his computer model to have it tell him Matthews was better during Matthews hot streak last season.

 

[Tob]

Some people don't realise that McDavid is also a product of Drai. It works both ways.

They are both a product of Darnell Nurse

 

[ClydeLee]

There is clearly a reason why almost every coach he's had in the NHL has used him as the sole forward when on a 5 on 3.

but them Jfresh charts sure do know defensive game better than actual NHL coaches who've been around the game their entire lives.

Why dont they when it's 4 on 5?

 

[McNuge]

Why dont they when it's 4 on 5?

They do just not nearly as much. He already has so much ice time for a forward.

Tippett explained when he played with Mario Lemieux the coach did the same thing. You don't want to run these guys into the ground but when push comes to shove in those situations you want your best players out there for the job.

 

[North Cole]

I said players produce better playing with better players and that McDavid was the best player in the world. You are saying you disagree? It’s weird that McDavid is the one leading the team and league in power play points with 62 and not Nuge or Drai. Strange he has 280 PP points since entering the league and RNH only has 169.

The argument that players don’t benefit from playing with an all-time great is certainly an odd one.

Please continue with your made up point that people are saying other Oilers players aren’t good and it’s all McDavid though…Draisaitl and Nuge can be good players while also benefitting from playing with McDavid you know…

What's the actual conclusion of this line of thought though? Superstars make other superstars better, but outside of pointing out of the obvious, what's the actual point?

The only player in the league that is enough of a statistical outlier to drive and maintain his own level is McDavid, everyone else on every other team is helped by someone. That's what makes this NHL and not the NBA. We have no measure of how much they are helped, or how much their points would decrease/increase if they substituted their superstar team mate for a another superstar from another team. If the point is that Draisaitl would not be a 50/50 player with Panarin instead of McDavid, or Marner instead of McDavid, there is no proof, so it's moot.

 

[VainGretzky]

That’s what I thought, good argument.


I think this discussion is over your head bud…

Lol, I will tell you what is above your head you have no clue about Draisaitl as it's proven by your posts you hate the Oilers and live in Novascotia so there is no hope in hell you stay up and watch a team you hate . I have watched Hockey since 1969 probably way before you were born and Draisatil is elite with McDavid or without you don't put up 4 100 + points in this league with nominal skills only a fool would think otherwise now go count the 100 points-seasons by other players since Drai has been in the league
then divide his 4 from the total amount and you will realize what really is above your head

 

[Duke74]

60 point player on any other team in the league.

Username absolutely checks out.

 

[McFlash97]

No, you're not right. You don't understand math.

It's always the kindergarten accusations when called out